Playing a provisional when you know where your ball is...

[sillywilly]

One of the main reasons I ask, a lot of my friends (including myself) take another shot if they badly miss a green on a par three if there is no one behind us. They call it a provisional so its not 3 off the tee but they know where there ball is, there is no chance of it being lost.
The reason they (we) do this it gets that bad shot out of your head for the next hole, it lets you know that you just hit a bad shot and you actually can hit that green 9/10 times... anything wrong with this if there is no one behind you or if you are stuck behind a group anyway?

[Kilroy]

Many courses have what is known as a driving range which is specifically designed for this kind of thing.


Obviously calling a ball a provisional under these circumstances is not permitted since the ball is not lost.

27-2. Provisional Ball
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1.

Therefore it's a practice stroke. - not the same as a practice swing

Rule 7. Practice
7-2. During Round
A player must not make a practice stroke during play of a hole.
Between the play of two holes, a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
(a) the putting green of the hole last played,
(b) any practice putting green, or
(c) the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round, provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).
Strokes made in continuing the play of a hole, the result of which has been decided, are not practice strokes.

Penalty for Breach of Rule 7-2:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes. In the event of a breach between the play of two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

[Bouche]

so......you could say I didnt see it land....maybe I should hit a provisional.....call the provisional and it wouldnt be a penalty then right?

[Kilroy]

If you lie about knowing where your ball is you are cheating.

[Bouche]

but it wouldnt be lying because in the case that you dont see it land then you really dont know if your ball is OK. Even though there might be no trouble around the corner lets say....it would still be premitted for you to play a provisional

Im just saying in the case that you know the course and you were to know that the ball is likely in the rough.....you could still hit a provisional because you didnt see your ball land

[sillywilly]

Many courses have what is known as a driving range which is specifically designed for this kind of thing.

Driving ranges are designed to retake a bad shot to give you the confidence that you can hit the green on a par three? designed to get the idea of a bad shot out of your head before the next shot? I think not. thanks for the rest of the answer though

Bouche, I guess if you were to close your eyes before the ball hits the ground and then claim you didn't see the ball land on a course that you know really well... then that would still be cheating since you know the course well enough and know the ball is safe

[Skiddlydidly]

But provisional is 3 off the tee, right? I thought the provisionals purpose was to save you walking back the tee after you can't find your first.

Hitting a 'provisional' and then just not looking for your original, or finding it and just disregarding it, means that in playing the provisional, you're playing a wrong ball, right?


Question:
Could you declare your first shot unplayable, and so be legally hitting 3 off the tee?(even if your ball is obviously not lost, and maybe even playable) Or do you have to actually play the actual ball that you hit first?

[sillywilly]

you can declare your first ball unplayable at anytime.. .you can do it an inch away from the hole if you want. You don't have to see or find your ball, you can retake a shot at any time under pen. of stroke and distance. But if you can find your ball you should play it, very rarely is it in your best interest to hit 3 off the tee when you can actually see your ball, know where it is or think you can find it. I've hit bad shots and when I hit my provisional and its a perfect shot, best i could have hoped for, I don't bother looking for my first ball if there is no way I can advance it to where I am with my provisional in two strokes...

[Skiddlydidly]

Yeah, I know you can declare an unplayable at any time, but don't you have to finish the hole with the actual ball you started with?

What I was getting at was:

"I don't bother looking for my first ball if there is no way I can advance it to where I am with my provisional in two strokes... "

Is this legal? If your first ball can be found, and can be played, then, by playing the provisional, you're playing a wrong ball. That's why I brought up the unplayable rule. It's the only way you could hit another from the tee if your first is not lost (or can be found). You never get to hit two balls and then decide which one you like better.

EDIT: to clarify whay I mean, you can hit a provisional anytime, but you have to abandon it when you find your original. (or declare it unplayable at that time, then take the appropriate steps. I don't think you could declare it unplayable, then use the provisional you already hit, could you?)

[jvincent]

Yeah, I know you can declare an unplayable at any time, but don't you have to finish the hole with the actual ball you started with?

No. You are allowed to substitute a ball for a number of reasons such as taking a drop from water, unplayable, etc.

I don't think you could declare it unplayable, then use the provisional you already hit, could you?)

Correct. You can only use the provisional if your ball is lost. If you find it and declare it unplayable the provisional is abandoned and you proceed under the unplayable rules.

[1972Apex]

The intent of 'honor' in golf is clearly lost in some of the above posts...

[sillywilly]

The intent of 'honor' in golf is clearly lost in some of the above posts...

Hope you aren't talking about me... i posted a simple rules questions and it would not be cool to say I have honor because i wasn't aware of the rule...

[1dash1]

Hope you aren't talking about me... i posted a simple rules questions and it would not be cool to say I have honor because i wasn't aware of the rule...

Sillywilly:

One of the founding principles of the game is that players play with integrity - not just with respect to honesty, but with respect to earnest playing of the game. You are not playing the game by taking practice shots.

If you believe that there is a reasonable possibility that the ball is lost, then by all means, play a provisional ball. That is what the provisional ball is for.

If the sole reason that you are playing a provisional ball is to get some practice in, then you are subverting the rules.

Will you get caught?

Probably not. But that isn't the point of playing the game, is it?

[Skiddlydidly]

I think your original question was just poorly put, Willy. You should have asked: "What is a provisional, and when and how can it be used?", or somesuch. i.e., specifying which rule you're unclear on.

Rereading it, it kinda looks like you're asking:

-Can I play a provisional when I have no grounds for doing so?
-Without taking the penalty associated with it?
-And completely ignoring my first shot off the tee?

(In effect, this is what you've been doing)

I know there's no ill intent, but you and your friends seem to have confused Provisional with Mulligan. Mulligans are illegal.

Of course, you don't have to follow the rules, unless you're competing or keeping a handicap.

[sillywilly]

hey, we tee up a ball and we hit again when no one is behind is. We still play the first ball... never play the second one. Sometimes if there is no one behind us, and a ton of people ahead of us and we are in carts we back the cart up and play the same hole again to get some distance between us and the group ahead of us. I wasn't aware this was not allowed and that is the reason i posted the question. personally I don't see how teeing up another ball and hitting it is a practice shot since it comes AFTER your first shot. You are teed up so you aren't testing the ground conditions... one of the reasons I was unsure. Now I know, so I'll stop

[Skiddlydidly]

Now I see. I completely misunderstood.

I believe that the rules state that the only practicing that can be done during a round is on or around the green of a hole just finished...?



EDIT: If you're just taking practice strokes, and not putting the ball into play, why "...call it a provisional so its not 3 off the tee ..."?

[sillywilly]

I think your original question was just poorly put, Willy. You should have asked: "What is a provisional, and when and how can it be used?", or somesuch. i.e., specifying which rule you're unclear on.

Rereading it, it kinda looks like you're asking:

-Can I play a provisional when I have no grounds for doing so?
-Without taking the penalty associated with it?
-And completely ignoring my first shot off the tee?

(In effect, this is what you've been doing)

I know there's no ill intent, but you and your friends seem to have confused Provisional with Mulligan. Mulligans are illegal.

I haven't played a muligan in 3 years I know the difference, i just wanted to know if you could take another shot at the green after you've already missed it.. if time permits. Was this allowed or not. I know you aren't allowed to take a practice stroke. Wasn't clear if this is a practice stroke if it comes after the shot that actually counts

[sillywilly]

Now I see. I completely misunderstood.

I believe that the rules state that the only practicing that can be done during a round is on or around the green of a hole just finished...?



EDIT: If you're just taking practice strokes, and not putting the ball into play, why "...call it a provisional so its not 3 off the tee ..."?

because if you don't call it a provisional... its autmatically 3 off the tee from what I understand)

[Skiddlydidly]

But if you do call it a provisional, then it's 3 off the tee.

[Kilroy]

I don't see how teeing up another ball and hitting it is a practice shot since it comes AFTER your first shot.

If it's not a practice shot, then what is it? Just an extra shot to prove you can do it to yourself? That sounds like practice to me. It's completely spelled out in Rule 7-2 Practice during Round which I quoted above.

Driving ranges are designed to retake a bad shot to give you the confidence that you can hit the green on a par three? designed to get the idea of a bad shot out of your head before the next shot?

No, driving ranges are for practicing.

[sillywilly]

But if you do call it a provisional, then it's 3 off the tee.

Only if you play it but you aren't playing

[1972Apex]

hey, we tee up a ball and we hit again when no one is behind is. We still play the first ball... never play the second one. Sometimes if there is no one behind us, and a ton of people ahead of us and we are in carts we back the cart up and play the same hole again to get some distance between us and the group ahead of us. I wasn't aware this was not allowed and that is the reason i posted the question. personally I don't see how teeing up another ball and hitting it is a practice shot since it comes AFTER your first shot. You are teed up so you aren't testing the ground conditions... one of the reasons I was unsure. Now I know, so I'll stop

The rules clearly state that you cannot practice on the course during a round. So in fact hitting a second shot when there is no need to do so would be a penalty. So if you are adding 2 shots to your total score each time you do that you might be within the rules . And I emphasize might because really you wouldn't be
In the original post you asked if there was anything wrong with this. Then when told there was, all of a sudden people were asking questions which were the equivalent to "If I close my eyes and pretend I don't know where the ball is... then can I cheat?" .
And the answer is still 'No'. Golf is a game of integrity and you either play with integrity or not. If not then you become a recreational golfer and you can hit as many shots as you want because you are not really keeping a real score.
Absolutely nothing personal there at all BTW Willy... that's just the way it is.

[Skiddlydidly]

Wait. So you're willfully refering to a practice stroke as a 'provisional', when you know you have no grounds for a provisional, so you can take practice strokes without penalty? That's cheating.

My bad. I thought you were ignorant of the rules, not trying to bend them.

[sillywilly]

no problem R, I wasn't sure if the honor comment was directed at me because I posted a rules question I was unclear about and it wouldn't be cool to be make fun of someone, insult someone or question their honor or integrity. Obviously the purpose of the question is to find out of its allowed, its not so i stop That is what the rules forum is for

[sillywilly]

Wait. So you're willfully refering to a practice stroke as a 'provisional', when you know you have no grounds for a provisional, so you can take practice strokes without penalty? That's cheating.

My bad. I thought you were ignorant of the rules, not trying to bend them.

yes, that is exactly what I mean

[1dash1]

hey, we tee up a ball and we hit again when no one is behind is. We still play the first ball... never play the second one. Sometimes if there is no one behind us, and a ton of people ahead of us and we are in carts we back the cart up and play the same hole again to get some distance between us and the group ahead of us. I wasn't aware this was not allowed and that is the reason i posted the question. personally I don't see how teeing up another ball and hitting it is a practice shot since it comes AFTER your first shot. You are teed up so you aren't testing the ground conditions... one of the reasons I was unsure. Now I know, so I'll stop

Sillywilly:

When I play "golf", it is strictly by the rules. However, I do join some friends in social rounds that are not much different than what you described. (Personally, I wish my friends would all play strictly by the rules, but that is another story. )

I'd encourage you and your friends to play the game and to have fun, and to know the difference between the two.