Smugglers Glen going downhill?

[solstrum]

Seems every time I play #11 I hit the green with a gap or SW and bounce ten yards over the back. You have to leverage some local knowledge to get around that track.

1 of the greens that is being considered for rework. That and 15 are the 2 priorities.

[solstrum]

Played Smugglers yesterday at 4pm ...Golf now hot deal ..cart greens fees taxes ...$31.00 all in...course was in great shape ..all aspects of it. I had read the comments on here and I don't see any negative changes to the course....at 6 pm at the turn the BBQ express was closed but had been open all day, GPS have been removed from carts due to fact they have bought a new fleet of carts and GPS are presently being installed..there has been work done off the fairway with numerous areas being cut....I don't really understand the criticism of this course...the course is very generous especially from the tees and I have played the top Ottawa courses and none of them can compete with Smugglers when it comes to the WOW factor.

Great to hear! Sometimes courses don't need GSP, Smugglers is a course that GPS really helps. Good to see this response! The price...maybe someone is catching on! Golf courses (especially outside a major market) need to rethink their business model.

[solstrum]

solstrum when you mention AGC is that short for Algonquin or Arnprior. If Arnprior just wanted to mention that I played last weekend and the conditions are the best I have seen them. Also in regards to Smugglers the reason my group of regular golf guys does not play it often is distance.

Yes, I did mean Arnprior. And I agree, the course is the best it's been as long as I've been a member.

How many would drive to BBR instead of Smugglers or vice versa?

[Txxxxxxx]

I'll have to try this course out some time to see what all the complaining is about as far as difficulty...

[ottylaker]

I have been playing golf for 55 years and on most days can still play the game...On off days I am long over feeling " beaten up "and or " embarrassed " . Best advice I can offer when playing a top tier course that is difficult ...check your ego in the parking lot and enjoy the ride.

[Txxxxxxx]

I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around the difficulty factor.....The course is 6600 from the blacks, with a 71.1 course rating, and a 134 slope. Having not played the course, from the hole-by-hole view, it does not look ridiculously difficult. With the exception of 11 green, which seems to be tiny, the other greens look fair.

It looks really nice actually.

[ottylaker]

If u keep the ball in play , demonstrate sound course management and play the proper tee blocks for your ability the course is not that difficult.....large greens ( fast and true) generous landing areas on most holes .....and it is all in front of you....you have to think !

[Swerve]

I'll chime in just for fun. I won't use quotes but just to comment on a few things:

1. I always loved Smugglers and am also surprised at the negative feedback (especially those that feel that it has always been unfair, etc... I never remember experiencing that)

2. Another great feature of Smugglers is the partnership with the resort across the street - great stay and play deals all year round IMO

3. I didnt google map it, but I seem to remember BBR being closer to 3 hours away and Smugglers only being 1 hour away - no comparison in my mind. I would drive Smugglers before BBR every time (although I have not had the pleasure of playing BBR - just commenting on proximity vs value, etc...)

As for Arnprior, it has been several years since I have played and I do plan on getting out this year. That being said, when discussing distances and the average hole length Solstrum quoted - I think it is misleading. Just from the #s shown, it *looks* like they are mis represented as Arnprior has longer par 5s to bring up their average but most of their par 4s look less than 400 yards? Out of curiousity, what would it look like if you only compared the par 4s - would Arnprior then be shorter? In my mind, par 5s are pretty much irrelevant because they *should* be 3 shot holes and there are not too many par 5s in this city that golfers can't reach with a wedge on their 3rd shot (Marshes #2 comes to mind...)

[big mac]

Swerve---if you have not been to Arnprior for a while---I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Steve-- the new greens keeper has done a ton of work. They have concentrated on a lot of thinning of the trees so the breeze can dry up the course faster and it has worked. Fairways are always nice---new green on #3 ???---sand traps with real sand Quite a bit of work behind 11---easier to find your ball but the green is still a turtle----hey---it makes life interesting I am not privy to the overall plan but if they continue this way---yippee !!!!! Oh and they also have improved the range.

Makes you kinda wonder why a "country course" can do this and other courses have a tough time ??????????????

I regularly drive from Orleans to play---fair test and decent conditions and a fair price.

A big plus---all the folks there are real nice

[habsfan]

Interesting... so I ran some numbers.

Just the Par 4's at Smugglers average 385 yards. Arnprior 381 yards.

From the tips not including par 3s ( par 4's and 5's only) the average length is:

Eagle Creek 446 yards
Smugglers 441
Arnprior 430.8 Yards
Pakenham 430.4 yards (all 3 nines)
Kanata 425 yards
Renfrew 411 yards

And you make a good point Big Mac, The 5 year strategic plan is up to date and I will see if they will make it public! Always good to know what is going on!

And to the point that Smugglers is an hour away and BBR is 3, and my group plays BBR 2 or 3 times a year and would rather make that drive than go to Smugglers SAYS A LOT!!

Jesus I've never seen anyone talk a course up more then Solstrum, we get hit it's a great little course, not long not short, a great challenge and a good golfing experience, do we need to be reminded in every thread.

[gbower]

I think it's probably time to start a new thread or change the title to this one.

[solstrum]

Jesus I've never seen anyone talk a course up more then Solstrum, we get hit it's a great little course, not long not short, a great challenge and a good golfing experience, do we need to be reminded in every thread.

Sorry man. Was just replying to the others questions and references.
I have posted several times in here about Smugglers both the things that are good and bad about it.
And I reference what I know, and being in the turf industry for 20 years I have lots of info.

Sorry to piss you off.
Go AGC!

[BC MIST]

AGC short on the card but NOT on the course!

A different perspective.

AGC is a par 70 course with two short par 3's. Replace those par 3's with two, 400 yard par 4's, making it a normal par 72 course, and the total yardage is 6695. That's how long the course actually plays.

[Kilroy]

Can we keep this thread to a discussion of Smugglers Glen please. There are several threads about the AGC and this is really turning into a thread-jack.

[nokids]

Jesus I've never seen anyone talk a course up more then Solstrum, we get hit it's a great little course, not long not short, a great challenge and a good golfing experience, do we need to be reminded in every thread.

I lol'd

[f499]

We used to play Smugglers 2-3 times per season. It's a nice course, and it's a perfect meeting point to golf with my Syracuse friends (half way point).

Unfortunately, we are down to once a season. The main reason is price. Course conditions are very nice, but not as good as previous years. Hard to explain, but there seems to be a downward trend. We were there on a Wednesday. Sunny and 25C.....and it was very far from busy. The fact that the parking lot was empty is not just a SG thing. I believe we are witnessing an important transition in the golf market. I will post my take on this, via a separate post.

I am not complaining about SG. We will be back...but only for a single visit.

[Smuggler's]

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I would chime in and correct a few misconceptions. First, I understand that some will enjoy a course and some will not, it is all a matter of opinion. That is 100% ok.


For your information we have a new fleet of golf carts this year. Our GPS is in the process of being transferred to our new fleet. Our equipment manager is already busy with turf equipment maintenance, but we are in the process of getting them back on. It is good to hear that you enjoy having them.


Our BBQ express is still open the majority of days. On slower days it may be closed and you may have to go into our bar area for service. Hamburgers, hotdogs, etc are still available.

I am not sure where the comments about course conditioning are coming from or specifically what the concerns are. We continue to receive overwhelmingly positive comments about the property and the course conditioning from general play, our members, stay and play groups and large tournaments. It has been a difficult year for bunker maintenance or always being ‘firm and fast’. Turf quality on tees, green, fairways and rough are very good. Drainage on such a property with extensive rock can be challenging and we are adding more drainage every year.

Regarding the property ‘being quite’. We had one of our best June’s ever and by the end of June have put through 9500 rounds.

Our ‘prime’ green fee rate of $89 runs from June 20 to mid October on Fridays, Sat am and Sun am. **$69 prior to June 20 **(This has not changed over the past few years) Through the week we are $73 (both prices include cart $20 cost). After 1pm you can walk for $39 or ride for $59. We are very busy on Friday’s, Saturday am and Sunday am (Supply and demand). Many pricing options are available if you would like to check the website www.smugglersglen.com


I do appreciate all of the observations and I understand we all may not fall in love with every course. Ottawa has been a very supportive market for Smuggler’s Glen and we look forward to maintaining this great relationship. Our success in the Ottawa market is very important.

Moving forward we continue to improve drainage. We have removed trees around 1,4,8,12,13,14 and 18 greens and continue to remove underbrushing. Tree removal around tee areas will be a priority this fall as well with the addition / renovation of some bunkers.

Thank you for your support of Smuggler’s as you are a big part of our success. We do appreciate the feedback as we are always trying to improve and make sure you enjoy your experience at Smuggler's Glen. I hope this letter does not come across as 'defensive' as that is not my intention. I am always available to speak to any of you if you have any questions or concerns. If you come down with 3 I might even join you for a round if you like. If you do not have a good experience, I do want to hear about it so I can have an opportunity to make it right.


Jason Boyce
Director of Golf / Course Superintendent
Smuggler’s Glen Golf Course
Jason@smugglersglen.com
c- 613-539-1187
W- 613-659-2204 x720
Twitter @smugglersgolf @smugglersglen

[habsfan]

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I would chime in and correct a few misconceptions. First, I understand that some will enjoy a course and some will not, it is all a matter of opinion. That is 100% ok.


For your information we have a new fleet of golf carts this year. Our GPS is in the process of being transferred to our new fleet. Our equipment manager is already busy with turf equipment maintenance, but we are in the process of getting them back on. It is good to hear that you enjoy having them.


Our BBQ express is still open the majority of days. On slower days it may be closed and you may have to go into our bar area for service. Hamburgers, hotdogs, etc are still available.

I am not sure where the comments about course conditioning are coming from or specifically what the concerns are. We continue to receive overwhelmingly positive comments about the property and the course conditioning from general play, our members, stay and play groups and large tournaments. It has been a difficult year for bunker maintenance or always being ‘firm and fast’. Turf quality on tees, green, fairways and rough are very good. Drainage on such a property with extensive rock can be challenging and we are adding more drainage every year.

Regarding the property ‘being quite’. We had one of our best June’s ever and by the end of June have put through 9500 rounds.

Our ‘prime’ green fee rate of $89 runs from June 20 to mid October on Fridays, Sat am and Sun am. **$69 prior to June 20 **(This has not changed over the past few years) Through the week we are $73 (both prices include cart $20 cost). After 1pm you can walk for $39 or ride for $59. We are very busy on Friday’s, Saturday am and Sunday am (Supply and demand). Many pricing options are available if you would like to check the website www.smugglersglen.com


I do appreciate all of the observations and I understand we all may not fall in love with every course. Ottawa has been a very supportive market for Smuggler’s Glen and we look forward to maintaining this great relationship. Our success in the Ottawa market is very important.

Moving forward we continue to improve drainage. We have removed trees around 1,4,8,12,13,14 and 18 greens and continue to remove underbrushing. Tree removal around tee areas will be a priority this fall as well with the addition / renovation of some bunkers.

Thank you for your support of Smuggler’s as you are a big part of our success. We do appreciate the feedback as we are always trying to improve and make sure you enjoy your experience at Smuggler's Glen. I hope this letter does not come across as 'defensive' as that is not my intention. I am always available to speak to any of you if you have any questions or concerns. If you come down with 3 I might even join you for a round if you like. If you do not have a good experience, I do want to hear about it so I can have an opportunity to make it right.


Jason Boyce
Director of Golf / Course Superintendent
Smuggler’s Glen Golf Course
Jason@smugglersglen.com
c- 613-539-1187
W- 613-659-2204 x720
Twitter @smugglersgolf @smugglersglen

Well there ya go, that should end all the "ass"umptions.

[Big Johnny69]

Well there ya go, that should end all the "ass"umptions.

Hahahaha!

[holeinone]

More courses need to do this. Great job.

[HoganWoods]

Great post by Smugglers.

[Kilroy]

I for one am really happy to see the trend of course managers posting here and responding to the golfers.
Thanks Smugglers.

[solstrum]

Yep, Great post by Smugglers.

Now do something about that first hole! Toughest starting hole I've ever seen!

And I agree it's great to see Courses interacting on social media more and more.

[Guzman]

I have not played this year, but I believe you are right, I see a lot of complains and unfair comparisons, I do not understand the need to knock down on something for very little reason, it is a great looking course and usually in very good conditions, I do not sympathize with comments about being a difficult course, if you want an easy course, go to a golf range, you do not need to look for your ball there.

[golfngord]

As a member there for several years I o feel very lucky,great place, great course, great owners.
As for the nay sayers there has been incredible improvement in the past year or so, Lots of tree cutting, brushing and clearing. It has been difficult for the greens crew keeping up with grass cutting this year due to weather but we were open early, and BTW-greens at 13+ on stimpmeter this weekend.
It in definitely getting a little wider and more playable.
as for the difficulty, are you on the wrong tees?
The BBQ may be closed at quiet times but there is always food available.
Also, a pet PEVE, all the golfers with total disregard for course condition s, not replacing divots, fixing ball marks, ignoring cart only signs.Do you leave the course in better condition than when you get there?
Very seldom do we hear a guest complain about anything re the course, and I spend alot of time conducting surveys at the 19th hole.
If you ever need a guide I am game to golf with anyone,
GolfNgord

[BC MIST]

and BTW-greens at 13+ on stimpmeter this weekend.

Why do some golfers think that this kind of green speed makes this or any course better? For the average golfer this speed makes scoring extremely difficult, for the novice the greens are virtually unputtable, and for the better player, very challenging. Most importantly, 13+ on the stimp, significantly slows up play. On one hand then, AGC uses non conforming red hazard markers to speed up play, but on the other makes the greens so fast that play is slowed up a lot more than the "hazard" markers try to overcome.

[Txxxxxxx]

Why do some golfers think that this kind of green speed makes this or any course better? For the average golfer this speed makes scoring extremely difficult, for the novice the greens are virtually unputtable, and for the better player, very challenging. Most importantly, 13+ on the stimp, significantly slows up play. On one hand then, AGC uses non conforming red hazard markers to speed up play, but on the other makes the greens so fast that play is slowed up a lot more than the hazard markers try to overcome.

Pretty sure he is speaking about Smuggler's with his comment, since this is the Smuggler's thread...


Having said that...I do agree with you on your stimp comment...

See below..

"There is no maximum number that the PGA Tour, European PGA Tour, USGA, R&A use as a max although, as an approximate guide, the US PGA Tour will typically work with the course superintendents to keep the greens around 11-12 feet.."

Why would you want to make your greens 13+ on the stimp, is BEYOND ME!!

[habsfan]

Why do some golfers think that this kind of green speed makes this or any course better? For the average golfer this speed makes scoring extremely difficult, for the novice the greens are virtually unputtable, and for the better player, very challenging. Most importantly, 13+ on the stimp, significantly slows up play. On one hand then, AGC uses non conforming red hazard markers to speed up play, but on the other makes the greens so fast that play is slowed up a lot more than the hazard markers try to overcome.

And I highly doubt the greens were at 13 + for that area, I have played greens that were 12-13 and like you said unputtable or chipable. Most Ottawa courses have their greens at like 7-8 some get close to 10 maybe a little higher but not many.

[John]

Great post and i have to agree with Solstrum, number 1 at that course ruins me everytime i play it.

[solstrum]

And I highly doubt the greens were at 13 + for that area, I have played greens that were 12-13 and like you said unputtable or chipable. Most Ottawa courses have their greens at like 7-8 some get close to 10 maybe a little higher but not many.

Being a Golf Course Super and Assistant at courses such as Kanata and Pakenham I can say with almost certainty there is no way the greens are a consistent 13! Remember Stimp is taken from 1 point in the green but measured in all four directions (east, west, north and south) all are then added up and then divided by 4. That is the stimp.. It may roll 13 in one direction but if it goes to 7 the other way the actually stimp is 10!

Btw, most guys use the stimp bar wrong and raise it upwards too quickly giving the ball a greater acceleration rate than should be used thus resulting in a higher stimp.