Smugglers Glen going downhill?

[jhodgert]

I have done a search and am surprised that no one has been complaining about what has happened atSmugglers Glen in Gananoque.

Since the last time I was there (I have 2x per year regular rounds) they have:

Removed GPS from the carts
Shut down the half way house BBQ
Seemingly released all marshalls
And forgotten how to properly take care of a course.

Oh, and on top of this, they have RAISED prices to an even $100 including cart!

Honestly, I love this course and enjoy paying there but it has become obvious how much they have been cutting corners lately. Combined with a price increase, I am very upset. Does no one else here feel the same way?

[SnazzyD]

Instead of showing their greed, it seems like the telltale signs of a golf course struggling financially. I would hope that they tried either cutting back on some services or raising prices first, and not at the same time - since you don't go there often, that may be the case. But the fact that they seem to be doing both now suggests they are really hurting...

[imozzie]

Instead of showing their greed, it seems like the telltale signs of a golf course struggling financially. I would hope that they tried either cutting back on some services or raising prices first, and not at the same time - since you don't go there often, that may be the case. But the fact that they seem to be doing both now suggests they are really hurting...

Played there a few weeks back with my wife and I must agree with this assessment. There has been definitely a cutback in peripheral services but I also noticed that there were no maintenance staff on the course when we played mid-week and in beautiful weather. I commented to my wife that it looked like the course was 'feeling the pain' of economic distress. Fewer players on the course...no one in the clubhouse...services diminished...reduced maintenance ... All reflect tough times to me. Love the track...let's hope it can pull it together!

[orangeTANG]

I was going to stop by there to play a round last fall with my wife on our way home from Syracuse. When i called I asked them if the round was about $70, when they replied back with nearly $100 I told them to never mind and booked a really nice course in Syracuse instead for $35 with cart, and had a wonderful day.

Too bad because it is a unique and fun track, but you only get the money you ask when there are tee times booked. Imagine that if the 1-2 times per year players think its too much, not sure how many locals would pay $100 each time they wanted a round of golf.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I'd complain if I paid $100 and couldn't buy a hot dog at the turn, that's crazy.

When will people understand that that whole philosophy of sending staff home because you want to save paying someone an hours wage and there isn't enough people left on the course to justify them staying is not a proper decision.

At $100 a round it's plain unconscionable.

[spackler]

I can't comment on the conditioning as I haven't played it yet this year, but I don't have too much of a problem with the price. That track, *IF* it's being maintained, is worth $100 a round every day of the week. Sad if they're letting it go though. Love that course.

[brucestats]

its a fantastic track, I think we are spoiled here in eastern ontario in terms of prices and selection... $100 is justified at a layout like that.

[leftylucas]

I disagree, the track itself is great, no worries there but when you hit the $100 spot for a course you need to see the difference at every level, diminishing services with a price increase just takes away the value.

[Guzman]

their posted rates for 89.00 includes a power cart $17.70 with a green fee of $72.00 and I believe they allow walkers in the course now, I can not comment on conditions I have not been there this year.

[solstrum]

The conditions at Smugglers have always been good. But I never was one to rave about the course.

The bush, tree line is among the most penalizing I have seen in my entire golf career and with only a small percentage of golfers being able to break 100 I think many golfers stay away from the course all together (lose to many balls). Compare it to Black Bear ridge where the guy who sprays it can still find his ball (and still be penalized).

The greens are fantastic. yes. But Last year I ruined a wedge in a green side bunker on a large stone. I actually kept it (during BMG series) and presented to the management in the club house.

It's a great course to play at $50-65 not $100.

I honestly may never play it again. I would rather make the drive to Black Bear.

[Brewcee]

I play two rounds a year at Smuggler's both as part of Flagstick Shootout. Tough for me to comment on price, conditions or service outside of Shootout weekend, but for that weekend the course and its staff/services are always top notch.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I played there a bunch of years in a row for the St Laurence charity event, beautiful everything. Turf a little shallow on some fairways but a stunning course. Too bad if it's turned into a bad business proposition.

They might get more business if there wasn't so many forced carrys.

[THUNDAH]

I'd complain if I paid $100 and couldn't buy a hot dog at the turn, that's crazy.

When will people understand that that whole philosophy of sending staff home because you want to save paying someone an hours wage and there isn't enough people left on the course to justify them staying is not a proper decision.

At $100 a round it's plain unconscionable.

At $100 the hot-dog should be included

[class1947]

Played there a couple of weeks ago conditions were top notch. However there was no starter or Marshall's to be found. I have played a variety of courses and there appears to be a lot of cutbacks. The lack of Marshalls seems to me to be counter productive. That said Business is slow and I have only had one round that was over 4 hours and that was a nice Sunday.

[Guzman]

I am not trying to defend Smugglers Glen but the Marshes is $120.00 and I saw lots of people there today, Smugglers is only $89.00, also I think is unfair to judge a course because you can't find your ball, if you are not on the fairway is a penalty anyway, if you are in the woods is a penalty and $3 dollars for a ball, there are very few golf courses that you do not loose balls, that is part of the game, maybe that's what they are call "hazards" Harvey Pennick said that "bunkers should be a punish, not perfectly smooth and manicure sand lots, I think the same apply to the rough and out of bounds.

[jeffc]

I am not trying to defend Smugglers Glen but the Marshes is $120.00 and I saw lots of people there today, Smugglers is only $89.00, also I think is unfair to judge a course because you can't find your ball, if you are not on the fairway is a penalty anyway, if you are in the woods is a penalty and $3 dollars for a ball, there are very few golf courses that you do not loose balls, that is part of the game, maybe that's what they are call "hazards" Harvey Pennick said that "bunkers should be a punish, not perfectly smooth and manicure sand lots, I think the same apply to the rough and out of bounds.

I think the point is a lot of people find it too penal and therefore don't golf there as much as they would otherwise. Unfair or not it is what it is.

[solstrum]

I think the point is a lot of people find it too penal and therefore don't golf there as much as they would otherwise. Unfair or not it is what it is.

I know 4 guys who play Mountain Creek and shoot 78-82 all the time. they have fun, they drink beer and they repeat. When they come to the AGC they have a hard time breaking 90 and don't have a lot of fun looking for golf balls all day. That's why the AGC has been working hard the past 2 seasons cleaning out the bush line.

It's Called Playability. Nobody in any sport likes to get beat up and embarrassed. Smugglers is too tough for the average golfer. If they aren't having fun, they are not going there frequently....and this thread is proving that.

When less than 10% of the golfers in the World including Pros can break 100, the other 90% are not going to go shoot incredibly high numbers for fun. So a tough course such as Smugglers is limiting the amount of players they are drawing from.

Look at the scoring averages for the BMG series, Smugglers is the highest.

Funny the World Loves eQuinelle and it is wide open, very forgiving yet a great test of golf.

[Wknd_Warrior]

That's why the AGC has been working hard the past 2 seasons cleaning out the bush line.

They'd do better to enlarge and flatten a couple of the more nestled in turtle back greens.

[brucestats]

I know 4 guys who play Mountain Creek and shoot 78-82 all the time. they have fun, they drink beer and they repeat. When they come to the AGC they have a hard time breaking 90 and don't have a lot of fun looking for golf balls all day. That's why the AGC has been working hard the past 2 seasons cleaning out the bush line.

It's Called Playability. Nobody in any sport likes to get beat up and embarrassed. Smugglers is too tough for the average golfer. If they aren't having fun, they are not going there frequently....and this thread is proving that.

When less than 10% of the golfers in the World including Pros can break 100, the other 90% are not going to go shoot incredibly high numbers for fun. So a tough course such as Smugglers is limiting the amount of players they are drawing from.

Look at the scoring averages for the BMG series, Smugglers is the highest.

Funny the World Loves eQuinelle and it is wide open, very forgiving yet a great test of golf.

Mountain Creek is an easier track for sure, but part of the "fun" there is taking cover every other hole from errant drives. The real issue with Smuggler is likely distance from a major market. Its a longer trek to get there, and there are plenty of hi end tracks to compete with.

[imozzie]

Mountain Creek is an easier track for sure, but part of the "fun" there is taking cover every other hole from errant drives. The real issue with Smuggler is likely distance from a major market. Its a longer trek to get there, and there are plenty of hi end tracks to compete with.

I agree. I play 40-45 different courses a year...most within a 90 minute radius of Ottawa. I like the layout and ambiance of Smuggler's...but I can find similar quality layout and ambiance at a number of different courses well within that radius, often at less cost when you price in the gas and time.

[priorlad]

They'd do better to enlarge and flatten a couple of the more nestled in turtle back greens.

I will agree that some of our original greens were small (3 and 4). 3 has been rebuilt and is about 3 times the size that it used to be. I can't for the life of me think of a turtlebacked green on the course.

[John]

4 is kind of turtleback isn't it? 11 is pretty insane too not a turtleback but still far too penal for most higher handicappers even with a wedge in hand. Not a slight either i like AGC and it needs some defense on the greens as it's a fairly short course.

[solstrum]

Smugglers, I like the course but I don't enjoy playing it. Any course that needs spotters on every second hole is too tough a test of golf.
And being away from a big market is definitely hurting it. If I am driving that distance to play I am going to BBR or Trillium first!

[justdoit]

I think we could look at south of the border and take note of how you run a golf course...

[Bouboude]

solstrum when you mention AGC is that short for Algonquin or Arnprior. If Arnprior just wanted to mention that I played last weekend and the conditions are the best I have seen them. Also in regards to Smugglers the reason my group of regular golf guys does not play it often is distance.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I played this spring, I still find too many of the greens a bit small and dome shaped.

That long par 4 on the front, the green complex is a small dome, and if you miss it, coming in with whatever club you have after a drive on a 440 yard par 4, the ball bounces hard left into the woods, or back right into the hazard. I find the 7th at equinelle an easier green to hit. There's other 4s and mid length par 3s that have a similar tough green shape, small and falling off in most directions. It's a tough second shot course, which is fine, but personally I'd like to see a couple more larger flatter greens that would hold a reasonable shot. This probably doesn't concern those that beat the course with driver and some kind of < gap wedge into every hole. Moving the tees up doesn't blow wind up my skirt but probably helps with pace of play on a course that can be tight off of the tee.

Don't get me wrong, I love the course, it's got tall trees, wood lined holes, nice turf etc... The fact I ever bother driving 45 minutes to play it is testament to that. If it was closer I'd play it a lot more. It's a nice track and a great deal. Please don't put a black mark next to my name

[Wknd_Warrior]

4 is kind of turtleback isn't it? 11 is pretty insane too not a turtleback but still far too penal for most higher handicappers even with a wedge in hand. Not a slight either i like AGC and it needs some defense on the greens as it's a fairly short course.

Seems every time I play #11 I hit the green with a gap or SW and bounce ten yards over the back. You have to leverage some local knowledge to get around that track.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I will agree that some of our original greens were small (3 and 4). 3 has been rebuilt and is about 3 times the size that it used to be. I can't for the life of me think of a turtlebacked green on the course.

I might be using the term too loosely, but it seems just about every one of those short dogleg par 4s has a small well sloped convex green on top of a small hill.

[priorlad]

It's not a problem Wknd_Warrior. We are only too glad to have you come back and try to figure it out! As for #11, I agree it's a challenge. I find that a knockdown PW is the best play. However, if you hit it thin, or fat trouble follows!

I played this spring, I still find too many of the greens a bit small and dome shaped.

That long par 4 on the front, the green complex is a small dome, and if you miss it, coming in with whatever club you have after a drive on a 440 yard par 4, the ball bounces hard left into the woods, or back right into the hazard. I find the 7th at equinelle an easier green to hit. There's other 4s and mid length par 3s that have a similar tough green shape, small and falling off in most directions. It's a tough second shot course, which is fine, but personally I'd like to see a couple more larger flatter greens that would hold a reasonable shot. This probably doesn't concern those that beat the course with driver and some kind of < gap wedge into every hole. Moving the tees up doesn't blow wind up my skirt but probably helps with pace of play on a course that can be tight off of the tee.

Don't get me wrong, I love the course, it's got tall trees, wood lined holes, nice turf etc... The fact I ever bother driving 45 minutes to play it is testament to that. If it was closer I'd play it a lot more. It's a nice track and a great deal. Please don't put a black mark next to my name

[ottylaker]

Played Smugglers yesterday at 4pm ...Golf now hot deal ..cart greens fees taxes ...$31.00 all in...course was in great shape ..all aspects of it. I had read the comments on here and I don't see any negative changes to the course....at 6 pm at the turn the BBQ express was closed but had been open all day, GPS have been removed from carts due to fact they have bought a new fleet of carts and GPS are presently being installed..there has been work done off the fairway with numerous areas being cut....I don't really understand the criticism of this course...the course is very generous especially from the tees and I have played the top Ottawa courses and none of them can compete with Smugglers when it comes to the WOW factor.