Stonebridge joining Clublink in 2005?

[Cedric]

Hi folks,

I've been hearing a 2 part rumour lately...

1) Stonebridge will be a Clublinks course in 2005...all that Clublinks is waiting for is a clubhouse.

2) Current Stonebridge members will be grandfathered into clublink (i.e. no initiation)

What are y'all hearing/knowing?

[jmr73]

As a Clublink member, I would love to see this happen. There have been rumours floating around for the last couple of seasons.

I really doubt the part about the grandfathering as Stonebridge does not really have members, they just offer 7-day playing packages. From what I see on their site, you pay $1900 for the package. There is no initiation fee that I can see. Correct me if I am wrong.

If there is any truth to this rumour, things would happen the way they did when the Dome went private. Current Stonebridge members would get a deal on the entrance fee but they would still need to pay something.

Maybe if an announcement was made later this summer, they would allow the current Stonebridge 'members' access to the Clublink courses for the remainder of the year or something like that.

Hi folks,

I've been hearing a 2 part rumour lately...

1) Stonebridge will be a Clublinks course in 2005...all that Clublinks is waiting for is a clubhouse.

2) Current Stonebridge members will be grandfathered into clublink (i.e. no initiation)

What are y'all hearing/knowing?

[lcatley]

As a non-Clublink member and someone who does not get the chance to golf often enough to buy a membership(not that I could afford it anyway), I would be very disappointed to see yet another area course swallowed up and made inaccessible to the green fee player.

I understand Clublink’s business and what they are trying to achieve, so I don't criticize them for it, I just find it a disappointment that the course would no longer be available for me to play the couple of times a year I normally would. :cryin

[BullDog]

I agree 100% - it would be a shame for us to lose every 'premium' course like that, one by one. I don't know what the rules are as far as Club Link courses go for people who do wish to play green fees... all I know is that it is very expensive - $100-150+ to get in, IF you can get in and it's usually during crappy times (no 10:20 on Saturday mornings.)

I like playing Stonebridge but if I have to play on Tuesdays at 4:48pm and pay $120 for the priviledge, forget it.

What I'd like to know is - how busy are these course anyway? I doubt that there are so many clublink members out there that Talon and whatever the other course's name is are booked solid for say, 9 hours on summer weekends - foursomes from 6:45am to 4pm... are they? Or do they care - do initiation fees and annual dues cover their operating costs so they don't care if they're dead have the time?

Just wondering....

Mike

As a non-Clublink member and someone who does not get the chance to golf often enough to buy a membership(not that I could afford it anyway), I would be very disappointed to see yet another area course swallowed up and made inaccessible to the green fee player.

I understand Clublink’s business and what they are trying to achieve, so I don't criticize them for it, I just find it a disappointment that the course would no longer be available for me to play the couple of times a year I normally would. :cryin

[LBH]

This rumour has been going around ever since Stonebridge opened if not before that...

As a Clublink member, I would love for that to happen but I do understand how that could make some green fee players unhappy.

Clublink bought National Pines in Toronto this year (the #1 public course in Canada according to some) and for this year only, it remains a public course but gives free access to Clublink members. Maybe if the Stonebridge rumor goes true, they will do the same thing there. You never know!

Clublink never use the grandfather clause for current members of courses they bought except for the old Greyhawk because the lifetime members brought Clublink to court and won since most of them had paid $10000+ to join the old Boundary. They have to pay approx $500 (4% increase each year) to play Greyhawk/Talon only (until it opens they play Predator). The deal lasts for 20 years and I believe there's something like 10 years left. After those 20 years, they're back to square 1.

As far as the $100-$150 green fee to play Clublink courses, that's not entirely true. There are only 2 courses available to the public player (without being invited by a member): National Pines and Rolling Hills, both in Toronto. For Le Maitre, you can also play as a public player if you stay in a Tremblant resort for at least one night. For other courses, you MUST be invited by a member to play (unless you play in some corporate tournament or other special event) and you can see the guest fees here: http://www.clublink.ca/mem_guestfees_2002.html. As you can see you can play for as cheap as $20 up to $150, depending on time and course.

[Colby]

I agree 100% - it would be a shame for us to lose every 'premium' course like that, one by one. I don't know what the rules are as far as Club Link courses go for people who do wish to play green fees... all I know is that it is very expensive - $100-150+ to get in, IF you can get in and it's usually during crappy times (no 10:20 on Saturday mornings.)

I like playing Stonebridge but if I have to play on Tuesdays at 4:48pm and pay $120 for the priviledge, forget it.

What I'd like to know is - how busy are these course anyway? I doubt that there are so many clublink members out there that Talon and whatever the other course's name is are booked solid for say, 9 hours on summer weekends - foursomes from 6:45am to 4pm... are they? Or do they care - do initiation fees and annual dues cover their operating costs so they don't care if they're dead have the time?

Just wondering....

Mike

Greyhawk, where they have Predator now and Talon opening the first week of July has approximately 800 members now and will have close to 1000, which is the goal I have overheard so I don't know its accuracy. The initiation for Greyhawk is 9,500 right now, will be 11,500 in June and according to the membership group, close to 16K by winter. I tried to book a twosome in on Thursday afternoon, I had a choice of 12:40 or after 5:00, it is Men's night though and with over 200 men signed up for Men's night it's very busy. Predator played 34,000 rounds last year, they are hoping to reduce that to 22,000 with Talon opening up.

I have heard that Clublink wants to get another 2-3 courses in the Ottawa area and at the AGM, they said that they will not be building. I know that they have had discussions with a number of courses in the area, most noticably Stonebridge, Eagle Creek, and an "Equity-owned club just east of Orleans" that the Clublink guy wouldn't name, but it's pretty easy to figure out. The whole Clublink principle is based on reciprocal play. If they don't have courses in the area, where would you reciprocal play at?

[Kilroy]

I feel that Clublink's buying up of the majority of the higher end public courses is a real problem for this region. If they build new courses, all the power to them, but I really do not like the loss of top public courses.

It is really going to be a shame if I cannot play Stonebridge or Eagle Creek without being invited.

I for one cannot, and probably will not ever, be able to affords a $16,000 initiation fee and $3500 per year for golf. If I did part with that much c*****$h and could not get a tee time on men's night because the other 200 registered league players beat me to it, I'd be pretty upset. How can they really expect to put 200 players out on the course for men's night? 10 minute tee times = 500 minutes = 8.3 hours. Sounds more like "men's day" to me.

Club Link is pretty greedy. They want all the best courses, a fortune in fees, and saturated memberships. I am amazed that there is a market to support this in this area. "The initiation for Greyhawk is 9,500 right now, will be 11,500 in June and according to the membership group, close to 16K by winter." They will continue to jack the price of initiation as high as they can get away with, as fast as possible. To me that is the definition of greed. The highest initiation at Club Link is $75,000. Unbelievable.

$2500 dues per year at Predator right now. National Pines is an initiation fee of $16k and the anual dues is $3500. I wonder if they will jack up the annual dues by 50% next year. When they finally go past what a member can afford, the member will be forced to drop out, and these are non-equity memberships, so kiss your initiation fee bye-bye.

I treat these all as rumours, since they come up every year. Until the deal is done, it can fall through. One thing is certain, ClubLink wants to buy these courses. I heard a rumour that the offer made to Eagle Creek was well shy of the asking price. They also never met the price asked for Emerald Links.

Is this the shape of things to come? Is Club Link going to eventually own the majority of the better courses? I sure hope not.

[Colby]

I for one cannot, and probably will not ever, be able to affords a $16,000 initiation fee and $3500 per year for golf. If I did part with that much c*****$h and could not get a tee time on men's night because the other 200 registered league players beat me to it, I'd be pretty upset. How can they really expect to put 200 players out on the course for men's night? 10 minute tee times = 500 minutes = 8.3 hours. Sounds more like "men's day" to me.

Men's night/day starts at around noon or so, and as soon as Talon is open, will take up both courses. It's crowded now, but will get better. Also, the number of memberships is high due to the fact that there will be 36 holes at Greyhawk.

Club Link is pretty greedy. They wanting all the best courses, a fortune in fees, and saturated memberships. I am amazed that there is a market to support this in this area. "The initiation for Greyhawk is 9,500 right now, will be 11,500 in June and according to the membership group, close to 16K by winter." They will continue to jack the price of initiation as high as they can get away with, as fast as possible. To me that is the definition of greed. The highest initiation at Club Link is $75,000. Unbelievable.

$2500 dues per year at Predator right now. National Pines is an initiation fee of $16k and the anual dues is $3500. I wonder if they will jack up the annual dues by 50% next year. When they finally go past what a member can afford, the member will be forced to drop out, and these are non-equity memberships, so kiss your initiation fee bye-bye.

They seem to use initiation fees as a membership limitation. As the number of members increase, so does the price of initiation. National Pines had 135 memberships sold in the first two weeks at 16K. It is also the cheapest Gold level membership with the exception of Greyhawk and Val des Lacs in Montreal. As National Pines starts to reach its membership goals, I believe the initiation price will rise there also.

Is this the shape of things to come? Is Club Link going to eventually own the majority of the better courses? I sure hope not.

There will always be good courses around. Emerald Links, Loch March, etc. Gib Patterson is also looking at building a few more courses from what I understand. I don't see the good mid-high end course disappearing for the daily-fee player. The issue is, how do they differentiate from the mid range courses that are following on the coat-tails of the high-end clubs. My greater fear is that golf will be priced too highly and it will become a special event.

Manderley and the Meadows are almost $40.00 for a Friday, Saturday and Sunday, Emerald Links is $46 on weekends, Nation is $45, and Falcon Ridge is $35 with no clubhouse! Do you play Nation for $45, Loch March for $55, Stonebridge for $65, or Eagle Creek for $75? Where does that stop? I remember playing Manderley on the weekends a couple of years ago and thought $30 was outrageous! Stonebridge when they first started wanted to charge $65 and people thought that was insane! The Marshes comes along and charges $100 and forces people to take a cart! Blasphemy!

But where does it end? At some point, things reach a saturation point for a number of reasons. Has Clublink sucked a number of the high-end golfers out of the system here in town? Last time I was at Eagle Creek, there were maybe 20 cars in the parking lot. Are their numbers down? If they are, how long can Andre keep things running properly with reduced usage? Will courses price themselves so high golfers won't go because they can't afford those courses? Does everyone start to play Pineview? Maybe it's the result of layoffs in the high tech sector finally affecting the region, people aren't making the $$$ anymore, so don't play as much golf especially at the high-end courses.

Do I have an insight? Who knows, these are just my observations from listening around the tables at a number of clubs, talking to some pros, and doing some reading. In any respect, the next few years will be as interesting as the last. For better or for worse, I do believe that we will still be golfing.

[4jag]

These are persistent rumours and as they say where there is smoke....
It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a marketing expert) to figure out that Clublink needs representation in the south of Ottawa. They've got the north, east and west covered. And if they are not building new courses the list is pretty short - Stonebridge or Emerald Links. Clublink has approached both. SB is the obvious choice given the relationship that Clublink has with Monarch and the fact that Monarch is on record saying they do not want to be in the golf course management business - the course is purely a marketing tool to sell homes and is not their core business. IMO, it is a matter of when, not if.

I would like to see this happen - the only reason I'm not a member at Greyhawk is the 40 minute drive from my house. My only fear is that the SB initiation will likely start in the 10K+ range with yearly dues in the $3K range. Man, I better start saving up my empties.

As for Clublink absorbing current SB season pass holders with no initiation? No way that would happen.