Appelby's Lost Ball

[natgolfer]

In Friday's Mercedes second round, Stuart Appelby hit a ball on a short, driveable par 4 into an area where he thought the ball might be lost. He them hit a provisional ball.

When the telecast came back to him a few minutes later, he was standing near his provisional ball. The commentator said that Appelby had taken a quick look for the original ball and then "deemed" it lost.

First of all a player cannot "deem" the ball lost. The ball is lost if (1)the ball cannot be found in 5 minutes after his side, caddie, himself have started to look for it, or, (2) he puts a ball in play according to the rules, like stroke and distance, or, (3) he puts the provisional ball in play if he hits it from a point opposite or ahead of where the original ball was likely lost.

Once Appelby takes a "quick look" for the ball, if it is found by anyone, spectators included, within 5 minutes of his starting to look and before he puts the other ball in play, he is obligated to play the original ball.

Now, if as Appelby is walking up the fairway and glances over to where he original ball would have been, and concludes that he does not want to find it, can he then say, "I am going to put my provisional ball in play?" My guess is that he CANNOT do this. His provisional ball only becomes the ball in play when he actually hits it. Even though he is not going to look for the ball, I believe that his opponent may look for the ball and if he finds it the player is obligated to play it. Yes? No? It seems a little dirty that the opponent may be allowed to do this, but in "fairness," it could be done. I think.

[Farzin]

Definitions

A ball is "lost'' if:



a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or

b. The player has put another ball into play under the Rules, even though he may not have searched for the original ball; or

c. The player has played any stroke with a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, whereupon the provisional ball becomes the ball in play.



I think b can be used. even though he may not have searched for the original ball

[Colby]

It's like a few years ago when Mickleson's provisional was lying in the fairway and he told evryone to stop looking for the ball weel before the five minutes were up. When an over-zealous spectator found it, he was furious, asking if he had not said to get everyone out of there.. He then had to take the ball and re-hit from the tee.

You don't really deem it to be lost, you just play another ball past the point it may be lost as per part b or c.

[Gary Hill]

natgolfer - You are correct in your assumptions.

The player can decide that he is not going to look for the ball or make only a cursory search, but that is not the same as the ball "deemed" to be lost.

A ball is lost if:
a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player’s side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or
b. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball; or
c. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place.

If a ball is found by anyone before either a or b or c takes place, the player is required to identify it.
If the ball is the players ball, the provisional ball must be abandoned.
The player has no right to stop anyone from searching.

FYI -

natgolfer - An opponent is only in match play.

Originally Posted by natgolfer

the player is obligated to play it.

This is not technically correct. The provisional ball must be abandoned but the player is NOT required to play the original ball. He may proceed under another Rule. (eg. unplayable ball ).

Colby - A ball played under clause b does not have to be played past the point where the original ball is likely to be. Once a stroke is made at a substituted ball, it immediately becomes the ball in play.

Hanifi - Your definition is not longer valid. The Rules of Golf were changed on January 1, 2004 including a revised definition for a lost ball.

[Farzin]

Originally Posted by Gary Hill

Hanifi - Your definition is not longer valid. The Rules of Golf were changed on January 1, 2004 including a revised definition for a lost ball.

Gary: I do not make defenitions, but thanks anyhow for crediting me for that.



Gary: To me it sounds like that if a player thinks that his ball is lost and he doesn't wish to look for his ball he can do so by playing another ball and not declaring it as a provisional ball, therefore the second ball becoming the ball in play immidayely under penalty of one stroke and distance, no mather if the original ball is found after or not.Am I right?

Originally Posted by usga

http://www.usga.org/rules/index.html section 2 defeinitions

27-2b/1 Continuation of Play with Provisional Ball Without Searching for Original Ball

Q. At a par-3 hole, a player hits his tee shot into dense woods. He then hits a provisional ball which comes to rest near the hole. In view of the position of the provisional ball, the player does not wish to find his original ball. He does not search for it and walks directly towards his provisional ball to continue play with it. His opponent (or fellow-competitor) believes it would be beneficial to him if the original ball were found. May the opponent (or fellow-competitor) search for the player’s ball?
A. Yes. In equity (Rule 1-4) he may search for five minutes provided that in the meantime the player does not play a stroke with the provisional ball, it being nearer the hole than the place where the original ball is likely to be. The player is entitled to play such a stroke. If he does, the original ball is then lost under Rule 27-2b and further search for it would serve no purpose. In match play, if the player so proceeds and his provisional ball is closer to the hole than his opponent’s ball, his opponent may recall the stroke (Rule 10-1c). However, recalling the stroke would not change the status of the original ball, which was lost when the provisional ball was played out of turn. See also Decision 27-2c/2.

[Colby]

Originally Posted by Gary Hill

Colby - A ball played under clause b does not have to be played past the point where the original ball is likely to be. Once a stroke is made at a substituted ball, it immediately becomes the ball in play.

That makes sense.

Thanks Gary

[Gary Hill]

Hanifi

You are correct.

That is precisely why a provisional ball MUST be announced as a "provisional ball".
Otherwise, the second ball played from the teeing ground is a substituted ball and immediately becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

BTW - I was trying to point out that the definition you posted of lost ball is incorrect.

b. The player has put another ball into play under the Rules, even though he may not have searched for the original ball; or

has been changed to:

b. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball; or

The new Definitions may be found here:  Definitions

The complete text may be found here:  The Rules of Golf       <---- please bookmark this link

[Farzin]

Thanks again Gary for the reply, with you being around I don't have to look anywhere. Just ask Jeevs, I mean Gary will do it.