Obstruction hit by ball in flight

[Kilroy]

This isthe closest thing I could find in the decisions regarding hitting man made obstructions.

Decision 19-1/1 Ball Deflected by Direction Post
Q. A ball is deflected by a direction post. What is the ruling?
A. It is a rub of the green and the ball must be played as it lies, without penalty.

Of course we get relief when the ball lies near enough to an obstruction to interfere with our stance or swing.

What about overhead wires? When one hits them, it is commonly accepted as a rehit without penalty. Where in the rules does it stipulate what objects allow for a rehit, and what is rub of the green?

My guess would be that wires, or whatever, need to be stipulated as "rehit without penalty" by the local rules. Could you please confirm or clarify Gary?

[Gary Hill]

If a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, it is a rub of the green, no penalty is incurred and the ball shall be played as it lies.

There is no "line of sight" or "line of flight" relief from an obstruction.

Specifically to power lines:
Where overhead power lines are so situated that a shot could be deflected, the Appendix provides an acceptable sample text for a Local Rule:

"If a ball strikes the power line at the hole, the player must disregard that stroke, abandon the ball and play another ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played in accordance with Rule 20-5 (Playing Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Played)."

Abandon means no longer in play. You may retrieve the ball.
This applies only to the power line itself not the pole or tower.
Notice the word must. It is not acceptable for the Local Rule to allow the choice of playing the ball as it lies or replaying the stroke.

You would have to check with the Committee (persons in charge of the course or competition) to see whether such a Local Rule is in effect.

Note: There are separate Local Rules for TEMPORARY Immovable Obstructions (scoreboards, tents, trailers, TV towers and cables, etc.) as in the case of Tiger Woods recent playoff relief.

Edit Note: spelling only

[Kilroy]

Thanks Gary. Nice to know I was correct on the rulings for this weekend.

It is great to be able to get an official ruling to these questions. After doing the rules contest for years, my playing partners always look to me for rulings. They never believe me.

[NoBack]

ok........ now what if the player is playing a great big slice from left to right (bigtime!).......we all see that the ball is comming back to midlle of the fairway but ......... it hits the hydro wire and falls to ground...... unfortunately where the wire was hit, was above a hazard. my guess would be that too bad so sad???? No rehit???

[Gary Hill]

Makes no difference.

There either IS a Local Rule requiring the player to replay the stroke or there IS NOT.

[NoBack]

but you just said

"There is absolutely NO free relief from an abnormal ground condition (casual water, ground under repair, or a hole, cast or runway made by a burrowing animal, a reptile or a bird) in a hazard"

so whats it going to be???

[Gary Hill]

This is a common dilemma when trying to apply the Rules. One Rule says you "must" do one thing and another Rule says you "must" do something else.

Rule 8-2 (Indicating Line of Play) prohibits positioning anyone on or close to the line of play.
Rule 17-1 (Flagstick Attended, Removed, or Held Up) specifically allows the flagstick to be attended.

Rule 18-2 (Ball moved by Player) prohibits touching or moving your ball in play.
Rule 10-4 (Ball Moved in Measuring) specifically tolerates a ball moved while measuring.

Rule 13-4 (Ball in Hazard) prohibts touching the ground in the hazard.
Rule 12-1 (Searching for Ball) specifically allows probing in the hazard for a covered ball.

In each case, the specific Rule takes precedence over the general Rule.

"There is no free relief from an abnormal ground condition in a water hazard", but in the specific case of a Local Rule requiring the player to replay a stroke deflected by a power line, the player would be required to replay the stroke.

Correction to quote: My original reply in the thread "Cart path gravel in hazzard" incorrectly stated "in a hazard". It has been corrected to "in a water hazard".

[spidey]

Gary's rule quote
If a ball strikes the power line at the hole

Does this mean that the issue must be debated if the ball strikes the wire beyond or near some imaginary line defining the hole?

I guess I have never been involved in a discussion about what constitutes a hole. IMHO, the entire course can be part of a hole. I think a green, fairway and tee and physical hole may be identified as unique to a hole for some purposes, but the entire remainder of the course may be part of the hole in terms of being in play. Theoretically, I can hit a shot from every tee, green and fairway in the playing of the first hole, and I must count all those strokes as played on the first hole.

spidey

[Gary Hill]

"the hole" in the Local Rule SAMPLE text quoted means the 8th hole, the 12th hole, or whatever hole to allow the golf course to clarify the location of the offending power lines. The course may have power lines on other holes which they wish to exclude from the Local Rule.

There is no imaginary line defining the play of a particular hole. However, there are purposes for the holes to be numerically designated.

The scorecard must have the correct total for each designated hole.
The holes must be played in correct order.
A teeing ground other than that of the hole being playing is designated "through the green" and a ball may not be teed.
A putting green other than that of the hole being played is a WRONG putting greeen and play is PROHIBITED.

In theory, you can play anywhere on the course during the play of a hole, but, in fact, you may not.

[spidey]

Yep, I got the gist, but... I'm trying to identify an issue such as at Hammond, where the power lines play on a series of adjacent holes. I realize you were only quoting sample text, and I suppose it's technically up to the committee to word the local rule clearly, but...

I'm trying to identify a situation where a ball is sliced (or hooked) out of the fairway, and strikes a power line which crosses the hole in play, but there is a dispute about whether it strikes the power line within the boundary of the hole. A fortuitous break if a shot can be replayed that was likely to have ruined the hole.

Perhaps the sample text is only trying to be clear about which set of power lines are candidates for replay, and which are not. F'rinstance... Can the committe state: "The power lines crossing holes 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 are included in the local rule, whereas the power line crossing holes 16 and 18 are obstructions in play. Any ball hitting the power lines crossing 1, 3, 5, 7, or 9 no matter where played from will be replayed, whereas any ball hitting power lines crossing 16 and 18 are not abandoned and are considered in play."?

spidey

[Gary Hill]

Originally posted by spidey
Yep, I got the gist

Apparently not. I will try again.

The naming of the hole in the Local Rule is SOLELY to clarify the LOCATION of the power lines. It has no meaning with regards to which hole is being played when the ball strikes the power lines.

Similarly, a Local Rule stating that the flower bed on the 18th hole is ground under repair from which play is prohibited does not mean that you can play from the flower bed if your ball travels into it while playing the adjacent 9th hole.

There is no imaginary line defining the area of play for a particular hole. A ball does not cross in and out of the hole in play. There are boundaries of the course, but no boundaries of a hole.

This adjusted sample test may help you understand.

"There is a power line at the 8th hole. If a ball strikes this power line, the player must disregard that stroke, abandon the ball and play another ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was played in accordance with Rule 20-5.

The Committee can designate any or all power lines in a Local Rule(s) as they see fit. Generally, all power lines would be included.

[spidey]

Tx, bud....

Sometimes you are very exasperating, RulesNut, but I really appreciate your persistence.

spidey