How to draw and fade question

[rezadue]

I am just starting to try to teach myself how to draw and fade the ball. I have read some different articles on how pros do it and of all of the things I have read and/or saw, I really liked Annika Sorenstam's explanation of how she does it, so I have been trying to follow her tips.

She say that when she wants to draw the ball, she will close her stance a bit (point to the right of the target), but keep ther club head pointing at the target. Then she swings in line with her body plane. For fade shots she opens her stance a bit (aims a bit left of target), with the club head pointing at the target and swing plane in line with her body.

I have tried this at the range and instead of curved shots going to the target, I get a straight line ball flight to the target.

Did I misunderstand her instructions? What could I be doing wrong?

Thanks,
Reza

[Thimble]

you have point the face of the shaft toward the target by turning the grip in your hand, not by turning your wrists over.

[rezadue]

That is exactly what I am doing. Turing the shaft until the clubface is pointing at the target. My hands and wrists are not turned at all.

[Thimble]

then my guess is that you're cancelling out the hook lie with an outside to inside swing. you should try and feel the clubhead following the line of your feet. really really try to hit the ball right of your target.

[spidey]

If the ball is going straight at the target then you're not swinging along your setup line. You're supposed to set up facing to the side of the target, so the ball should start out on the line your aiming at, then curve back toward the target. If it's not, then you're not swinging down the right line, you're trying to swing back at the target. It'll never slice or fade if you do that.

[Ginker]

I find the easiest way to hit a fade or draw without making swing changes is to align the face of your club where you want the ball to finish and then align your stance where you would like to start the ball... Then just take a regular swing.. In the case of the draw I like to increase my grip preasure of the bottom hand a bit..
Another way would be to adjust your stance (basically accomplishing the same thing) So for a draw I drop my back foot and then swing on the line.. This causes you to take the club away inside.. and the opposite for the fade.. drop your front foot and you will take the club away outside..

[BC MIST]

She say that when she wants to draw the ball, she will close her stance a bit (point to the right of the target), but keep ther club head pointing at the target. Then she swings in line with her body plane. For fade shots she opens her stance a bit (aims a bit left of target), with the club head pointing at the target and swing plane in line with her body.

If the assumption is to be made that the golfer grips the club first and then sets up in the manner described above, the ball will NOT fade or hook. With the grip taken first, you have to turn the face of the club to aim at the target, if the body is aligned left for a fade. When you swing along the body line, the club will return to its NATURAL position, which is parallel to your body line, and you will hit the ball left of target.

Instead - do this.
-Aim the face of the club at your target.
-Align your body left
-Take your grip
-Swing

Or
-Set the club on the ground with the face OPEN
-Grip it
-Adjust your body left until the face is at the target
-Swing

Both achieve the same thing, but the key is NOT to grip the club first. I was working on this very shot today and it works every time.

Of coure, just reverse everything for a "draw" type shot.

[rezadue]

I will give these suggestions a try and see what I come up with.
On a related note, I wonder if it is too early for me to be experimenting with these shots. Last year was my first full year and I played around 25 rounds and am playing to a handicap of 20.5

The sticks I use are supposed to be workable ( RAC LTs) so tht is not an issue.

[BC MIST]

I will give these suggestions a try and see what I come up with.
On a related note, I wonder if it is too early for me to be experimenting with these shots. Last year was my first full year and I played around 25 rounds and am playing to a handicap of 20.5

The sticks I use are supposed to be workable ( RAC LTs) so tht is not an issue.

While it is best to work hard on developing a sound swing with an inside path to the ball, there is nothing wrong with trying to develop a skill (fade/draw) that will ultimately help your game. Just be aware that spending too much time on the fade shot, where the open setup makes one feel very comfortable, may make it more difficult to perfect the setup and swing for a straight shot.

All clubs are easily workable, from the biggest of cavities to blades, if you hit the ball on the centre of the face. Where cavities lose a little bit of workability is when you hit the ball off centre, but then so do blades. The blades will lose more in distance than workability. Work on make good contact. You can get some impact tape and that will tell you where on the face you are hitting the ball.

You are on the right track.

[Thimble]

I will give these suggestions a try and see what I come up with.
On a related note, I wonder if it is too early for me to be experimenting with these shots. Last year was my first full year and I played around 25 rounds and am playing to a handicap of 20.5

learning to fade and draw will help you figure out and fix your regular swing a lot better. it's a good driving range practice for any handicap.

try playing around with the height of your shots as well.

[mcgoo]

Enjoying this discussion. Very usefull discussion for me.

[Fozz]

I also use Annika's method. Nick Price and a few other great ball-shapers use this method.
One thing that is important to keep in mind is ball position... Once you align the club to the target, you setup your stance towards where you want to start the ball but you also have to make sure that the ball is positioned normally, relative to your stance. In other words, it just as if you were playing a regular shot to the right of the hole for a draw (left for a fade) but with the club facing your intended target. Take a regular swing and the ball should turn toward where the club face is positioned.

Often, we tend to try and force the ball one way or the other, but it is crucial to always keep the same swing in order to achieve any kind of result with this method.

[rezadue]

Well, I have tried it out of necessaity on a course. My second shot on #3 at Champlain ended up behind some trees on the left side of the fairway so I had to draw the ball. I tired the Aniika method and sure enough it worked like a charm!

The only issue I am having is that I can not consistently do this. And I think that it is because even though I setp to the right or left of the target I sometimes look at where I want the ball to go when I swing. So I am probably not swinging along the correct line.

[John]

I don't think you need to really concentrate on working a ball with a higher handicap necessarily. Yes there are certain circumstances when i can come in handy but it's not important at this point whatsoever. Practice your short game to cut your handicap down, learning to shape a ball is a very difficult thing to do purposely and you need a solid repeatable swing to do is consistently.

[byerxa]

I don't think you need to really concentrate on working a ball with a higher handicap necessarily. Yes there are certain circumstances when i can come in handy but it's not important at this point whatsoever. Practice your short game to cut your handicap down, learning to shape a ball is a very difficult thing to do purposely and you need a solid repeatable swing to do is consistently.

I am a 12 and my goal is to reach single digits. Of course short game is by far my biggest issue and I am working on that. However, I feel I need to develop a reliable fade. I naturally draw the ball (righty), so pins tucked tight on the right side pose a challenge. When you are trying to shave those precious last strokes off means you can't put the ball in a tough spot. I feel best aiming at the safe area and trying to work the ball closer. If it only goes straight, then you 2 putt. If the ball moves to where you want, you have a shot at birdie. However, if you short side, chances are it will take 3 more strokes to get it in.

[John]

Yep i can see your point but i guess it's just not something i feel is that important. My handicap fluxuates from a 5 to a 9 and i don't often see a need to work a ball. I just think it's too unreliable.

[1972Apex]

Drawing and fading of the ball is ridiculously easy. I can do it anytime I don't want to.

[Chieflongtee]

Drawing and fading of the ball is ridiculously easy. I can do it anytime I don't want to.

Good one

[John]

Agreed!

[byerxa]

Yep i can see your point but i guess it's just not something i feel is that important. My handicap fluxuates from a 5 to a 9 and i don't often see a need to work a ball. I just think it's too unreliable.

Believe me there are more days than not that I am just trying to get the ball going in the correct direction! However, on good days when I've got a score going there are times when I wish I had a reliable fade. I find simply changing the face angle at address is a fairly reliable way of generating a mild draw or fade. Actually changing the swing is a recipe for disaster.

[Chieflongtee]

Have any of you guys played solid tennis? Take a one handed slice backhand for example. If I change the grip and set up with a closed stance and still use the same motion will I suddenly start top spinning the ball??? I think NOT.

[Txxxxxxx]

Hmm..This is a touchy subject I think when it comes to whether or not it's a good idea to start playing with fades and draws at the handicap you're playing at. I guess it depends on how developed your game is. The difference between a 20 and a 15 handicap could be lack of short game, but a very sound swing. If you are happy with your swing, I'd say it's okay to focus on fades and draws a bit, but I'd be focusing more on flops shots, or different types of chip shots that can really help your score, rather than fading the ball.

Just my two cents.

[byerxa]

If you don't have a reliable swing, then trying to purposefully do fades and draws is moot. In my case my swing is reasonable with a natural draw and I feel comfortable drawing the ball on purpose. However, I do not feel comfortable fading the ball on purpose. I am working on getting myself to use the same swing with a slight open clubface at setup. It is getting there on the range, but I am not quite ready to take it to the course yet.

Regardless, currently holding down a 12 index I try to spend at least 75% of my practice time on my short game. It is still by far my biggest problem in trying to get my scores down.

[rezadue]

Well, I think the swing is not too bad as long as I don't lookm up half way through it. And I naturally draw with my irons. I seem to like to close the face a bit and point to the right of the target, so I think drawing on purpose is not that difficult to do.

Fading is another story. I don't feel comfortable doing it and most times I banana slice when I try in on the range, so I am not doing that on the course until I feel much more comfortable.

Right now I only draw the ball on purpose when I really need to get around a corner.

[Hacker]

I read the same article by Annika but I was taking my grip *prior* to aligning the club face because that's what I do in my pre-shot routine. After reading this thread I've been able to get the ball working a bit to the left and the right......now it's time to work on the consistency.

Great stuff here everyone Thanks!!

[Darin_CS]

When your not playing well, one of the best things you can have is a reliable fade with your driver/fairway woods. It tends to be a little higher and with a bit more spin, hence rolls less when it lands, an easy way to find the fairway. If you keep putting it in play, it helps confidence. Even if its your driver your playing bad with, it can help because the open stance is much more comfortable and it lets you release the club easier.

You have to be careful when playing draws and fades that you dont take an aggresive swing unless you have to. With an agresive swing, its easy to turn a ice little draw or fade into a huge hook or a slice. (which I still manage to do swinging easy at times). I generally only take aggresive swing though if I am trying to slice or hook it