View Poll Results: Who is to blame for slow play?
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- 246. You may not vote on this poll
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The Management for not spacing out the tee times
39 15.85% -
The Marshalls for not enforcing pace of play
83 33.74% -
The actual slow players, whoever they are
176 71.54% -
6 hour rounds don't bother me
2 0.81%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Who is to blame for slow play?
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04-24-2006 04:16 PM #1
Who is to blame for slow play?
Interested to see the results... Feel free to be honest and not politically correct.
Donny Vantage NFL Guru, since 1974
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04-24-2006 04:17 PM #2
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mainly people who were never taught how to play "ready golf".
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04-24-2006 04:23 PM #3
slow players (and no, i'm not trying to be condescending). I find most slow players are slowest around the putting greens.
A couple of my biggest problems are when I see a player lining up a putt for 5 minutes, only to blow it way wide, 5 feet past the hole, or when a player decides to mark a 1 foot putt instead of just tapping it in
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04-24-2006 04:26 PM #4
I would have to say that it is a combination of a few people. Firstly, i think some courses try to squeeze tee-off times too close together to get as many people out as they can that is one of the main causes. Secondly, i think it has a lot to do with people that think they are "Tiger Woods" and play from the "tips" which slows it down because they are hitting 3/4 shots into par 4's because they simply can't get home in 2 shots. I would agree about the "ready golf" but me and my playing partners don't really play ready golf and never seem to hold people up. But i think that is due to reason #2, we are all between 3 and scratch, and therefore only take two shots to get on the green or close by it so we don't really slow down play at all.
I also have a tough time watching people search for their ball for 5+ minutes while a group is waiting on the tee behind them and has been for the last couple holes. It seems that not only do they go and look for a long period of time, but all 4 guys go look, instead of just two of them. Like was said above, if they use "ready golf", the other members of the group should only help look for the ball after they have each hit, it will help immensely.
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04-24-2006 04:35 PM #5
You can only really blame the slow players. If everyone knew how to play ready golf then there would be no need for marshalls to enforce pace of play and 7-8 minute intervals would be no problem.
Now it is up to the marshalls (and more importantly other golfers) to teach slow players how to pick up the pace.
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04-24-2006 04:40 PM #6
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I think that course layout can slow down play. Put a short par 5 as your first or second hole and everyone thinks they can get there so always waiting early in the round. It may open up after that but then noone tries to catch up. Marshals at most courses do nothing but get people ticked off. Most have no authority to ask someone to pick up and even if they did now the groups behind have lost time. I've had them on my case at a couple of courses and I'm far from a slow player. I find a lot of people in carts will often slow play down as they go to one ball instead of dropping one off and then going to their ball. How many play a provisional ball off the tee if they think it may be OB. Oh ya they just drop when they don't find it or hit it from the OB. Another thing that slows play down is at the turn to #10 when people have to go in and get something. This is definitely a problem where I play. When beverage carts are on the course there is no need to stop at the turn.
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04-24-2006 04:40 PM #7
i do have to agree that courses are also a big part of the problem. Played Cordova Bay on Friday morning - the starting times were 9 minutes apart, and the starter would not let you tee off until the next group was at the green. The groups were well spaced, and we didn't have to wait for more than about 2 minutes all day - finished in 4 hours and 200 minutes. Played Olympic view later that afternoon. Tee times were about 7 minutes apart - the second the group ahead had hit their second shots, the starter sent us out. I teed off at 330, and finished in the dark at 830 (we only finished because a couple groups ahead of us quit after nine and play sped up - the front 9 took 3 hours). That's the difference between a smaller operation like Cordova Bay, and a course like Olympic View that is owned by Golf BC, who doesn't really care about the quality of the round, as long as they can squeeze in as many 70$ green fees as possible.
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04-24-2006 04:56 PM #8
If I could play CB and OV tomorrow and the next day I would not care if it took 5 hours each. All the better to enjoy the views. I am so jealous.
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04-24-2006 05:04 PM #9
Yep, it was a nice treat to end the year out here (although my wallet wasn't too happy about it). Its so torturous to live out here with so many beautiful courses nearby, and not have the money or the transport to take advantage. It was just a shame about Olympic View because it is such a gorgeous course and has such an interesting layout, and they insist on bunching tee times together. I will definitely be heading back, but will be booking an earlier tee time. My first round there I had to end the round of my life after 16 as it was pitch black, and it almost happened again.
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04-24-2006 05:07 PM #10AndruGuest
This debate is anecdotal venting. Untill someone sets up one day and does a study we'll never know exactly why play gets so slow.
The only time I've been involved in a really slow group, golfers losing lots of balls and spending 2-3 min. ( Time observed ) looking for each and every one of them. 10 balls is 20 minutes.
Over reading greens. Waiting to get home in 2. teeing off from the back tees is not the reason things get slow. It's what sets you off on an already slow day but not root cause.
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04-25-2006 09:51 AM #11
For the most part slow play is caused by the actual golfer. My biggest complaints about slow play is poor golf etiquette and the TW syndrome. How often do you follow a slow group that speed up purposefully speeds up as you approach them to play through. Also, I often see people hit and their best drives are 210 yards yet they still wait on par 5 while they are 250 yards away. I also find that most Marshalls only drive around instead of actually doing their job. That's enough venting for today!!!
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04-25-2006 10:05 AM #12
I agree for the most part except with the drives. If you can drive 200-260 but average say 220 I'd rathr wait 2 minuts than hit that miracle drive and kill someone Both myself and a friend have had balls come dangerously close already this year. One landed 3-4 feet from my head just dropped. My friend had a drive bounce through his club and his legs!
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04-25-2006 11:09 AM #13
I am, by definition as slow player when playing seriously.
I will go through a preshot routine that involves usinga range finder, lining up the target, backing off, then approaching the ball and taking my shot. On the putting green I line up all my putts, and stand over the ball for a few extra seconds before firing.
That being said, I will keep a faster pace than almost anyone that I know.
Slow play isn't about ppl taking their time on their shots, it's about people that walk slowly, people that put their bag on the opposite side fo the green and have to walk around every hole ... people that can't leave a ball in the creek, people that stand on a tee waiting for the green to clear, and when it does then they go to the ball washer, then they pick their club etc etc ... get ready while you wait!!!
Slow play is also thanks to people that don't waive groups on, don't ring the damn bell on South 5 @ Manderley (and yes i forget aswell and I'm to blame lol).
Slow play is people that walk w/ their buddy down the left edge while their ball is 3 fairways to the right.
Now, onto the marshals. I should NEVER see back to back twosomes on a busy day. Especially when I was i nthe proshop 10 minutes earlier and saw that we were packed with 4somes. This is 2somes getting paired on the computer, then chosing to break apart on the tee, or on the 2nd hole, and the marshals do nothing...
arrrrgh!
thanks for giving me somewhere to vent LOL[SIZE=1]NCGT Ryder Cup Team [COLOR=black]Green [/COLOR](06,07,08)[/SIZE]
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04-25-2006 12:01 PM #14
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I can't really blame the hackers. They're new to the game and usually don't know any better.
In my experience, slow play has always been a result of Marshals. I never see them enforce quicker play, even when it's blatantly pathetic. Also, on some courses, you barely even see them at all - Chateau Cartier. Who knows, maybe management is leaning on the marshals not to do anything so that more people can play. It wouldn't be the first time that service is sacrificed for more money
The bottom line to me is that out of many of the courses I've golfed in Ottawa the message is loud and clear "We have your money, talk to someone who cares".
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04-25-2006 12:23 PM #15
I voted for marshalls, but only if the damn course supports them.
It is technically the persons responsibility but the problem is most golfers these days simply took up the game with buddies, out drinking, having a good time, with no clue of the rules and no-one teaching them. i.e. "You da man!!!!!""Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual"
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04-25-2006 12:24 PM #16Originally Posted by jmr73
The problem is that some owners think that "enforcement" diminishes the players' pleasure and if they do that, they won't come back. I ask, then, why bother having them out there.
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04-25-2006 12:29 PM #17Originally Posted by Andru
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04-25-2006 12:33 PM #18
The slow golfers and management who don't care about them. And unrealistic tee time intervals. I feel that anything less than 9 minutes is not enough for Joe Bloes to keep spaced properly.
I can keep a reasonable pace - when I play in a 3 some with myself, my dad, and my father in law we can walk 18 in not much over 3 hours. I occasionaly play with a group that can be slow. In fact, they don't like Stonebridge because sometimes the marshals will bother them (exactly why I like the place!). When we start holding things up, I try to observe what is going on:
1. One guy will burn too much time when having a bad hole, i.e., searching too much for a lost ball, try to salvage that double bogey when it does not really matter, etc. Once I am well into double bogey range I will stop playing "by the rules" and just finish the hole - I am already topped out on the hole handicap wise and surely have lost any game on that hole. To his credit he will eventually notice when we start causing holdups and pick up the pace.
2. Another guy is not good at ready golf. More often than not I will hit my tee shot then end up waiting a fair bit for everyone else to get going and hit theirs. When I make a comment about needing to get a move on he complains and feels he can take his time.
When 1 and 2 both have bad holes and interact, I start to feel like Rory Sabatini (sp) and want to just move on to the wide open next hole on my own.
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04-25-2006 01:00 PM #19Who knows, maybe management is leaning on the marshals not to do anything so that more people can play. It wouldn't be the first time that service is sacrificed for more money[SIZE=1]NCGT Ryder Cup Team [COLOR=black]Green [/COLOR](06,07,08)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]OG / TGN Ryder Cup Team [COLOR=black]Ottawa [/COLOR](07) [/SIZE]
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04-25-2006 01:08 PM #20
I agree with the above as long as the course supports and gives the marshals the proper authority to do so. Not the case at all courses.
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04-25-2006 01:11 PM #21Originally Posted by mmason31
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04-25-2006 01:25 PM #22
Stonebridge evidence
proper t-time spacing + marshalls with authority + properly stated course policy for pace of play = 4 hr rounds (give or take 15 min)
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04-25-2006 01:53 PM #23
I took my 7 year old daughter to play Stonebridge one afternoon on their good parent and child deal. I figured I'd give it a shot since it would be nice to play something other than a par 3 while playing with my daughter. I was a little nervous about the greens causing her too much problem (I start her at the 150 marker except on shorter holes with elevated tees). Well, we were far from the problem! We waited so much that my daughter was sick of it after 9 holes! I was actually very peeved because what could have turned out to be a really fun time with my kid (she was dealing with the greens fine) was spoiled by people who were playing horribly slow. Now I have a hard time convincing her to come back out to a full size course for this reason. A 7 year old kid can't take the slow play - come on people! If only Stonebridge would maintain its pace of play in the afternoon...
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04-25-2006 01:54 PM #24Originally Posted by rancherJRich
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04-25-2006 01:56 PM #25Originally Posted by Shivas IronsRich
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04-25-2006 03:25 PM #26
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as far as marshalls go, I think its much better to upset 1 foursome that is holding up your course than 140 other golfers who are upset due to the slow play caused by 1 or 2 groups.
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04-25-2006 03:37 PM #27Originally Posted by fundonny
It depends on the course and the management of the course and what they tollerate. I will give you a 'list' of things that in my opinion contribute to slow play at most courses though
1. filling the course with too many groups
2. Tournaments
3. The player that golfs once or twice a year and has no concept of the etiquette
4. People out for a social afternoon (nothing wrong with that but you have to keep up the pace)
5. The 'calcutta' players playing for what they consider big bucks and have to take their time over every shot.
6. Unsupervised Juniors who just dont G. A. S.
7 and a partridge in a pear tree!
Now I have played alot with 'seniors' and 'ladies' and I have to say that my most enjoyable rounds are with those 2 'groupings'.... I love to play with with either 3 other ladies or seniors for an enjoyable, relaxing round of golf..... If I want stress, I play with my buddiesProud member of the 2009 OG/TGN Ryder Cup Champions
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04-25-2006 03:54 PM #28Originally Posted by Indio"Chicks dig me, because I rarely wear underwear and when I do it's usually something unusual"
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04-25-2006 04:26 PM #29
Stonebridge kids deal
Byerxa,
I have taken both my older boys(both younger than 11) in the afternoons to SB and I can assure you we were moving right along. I have no problem getting them excited about rounds there especially cause they love to drive the carti hopefully yours is an isolated incident. Maybe your daughter should play from the forward tees. Sounds like you have a young M.W. on your hands
j
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04-25-2006 06:32 PM #30AndruGuestOriginally Posted by mmason31
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