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Thread: Rules Quiz
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03-10-2006 03:32 AM #11dash1Guest
Rules Quiz
It's not often that I come across a simple situation that illuminates so many nuances of the rules. You are a sharp bunch, I think you're up to the challenge.
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Foursome stroke play.
A & B are partners.- A drives from tee, his ball lands in a bush 150 yds from tee.
- B plays a provisional 200 yds in middle of fairway.
- B finds a ball in bush, declares it unplayable and drops within two club lengths. B plays the ball onto the fairway.
- A picks up the provisional ball. A then discovers the ball B has played is not their original ball.
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Hint: When you think you've counted all the penalty strokes, keep on looking. There are more than you think.
Good hunting!
P.S. For those of you that have already seen the answer, please give others a chance to give it their best shot.
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03-10-2006 09:28 AM #2
I'm not sure as to how many penalties they have racked up, but I guess they must proceed as follows:
They must return to see if they can find the original ball. If they can't then they must return to the tee (since they picked up the provisional) and hit another shot.
Also, a question for once the answer is given... IF they find the original ball after all this, and take a drop, what are they shooting vs. If they can't find it and have to re-tee it?[SIZE=1]NCGT Ryder Cup Team [COLOR=black]Green [/COLOR](06,07,08)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]OG / TGN Ryder Cup Team [COLOR=black]Ottawa [/COLOR](07) [/SIZE]
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03-10-2006 11:05 AM #3
Penalties:
A owes B a beer for only hitting his shot 150 yards.
A owes B a second beer for hitting into a bush as well.
B owes A a beer for playing the wrong ball.
A owes B a beer for picking up the provisional without checking that the ball in play ahead was the correct ball.
B owes A a final beer because A's mistakes were accidental while B's mistakes were through stupidity.
Total penalties: 5 beers. Time to go fishing.
SH
Really though, my guess is that they would have to drop a ball where they think the provisional ball was, take 3 off the tee, one shot penalty for picking up the provisional and 2 shots for hitting the wrong ball. That would put them lying 6. IMO, fishing would be more fun. Did I miss any penalty strokes?
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03-10-2006 11:29 AM #4Originally Posted by Sphere HunterI've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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03-10-2006 11:45 AM #5Originally Posted by NoBack
SH
P.S. Leaving next Thursday for a little 9 day, South Carolina golf tour. I will miss all this beautiful snow.
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03-11-2006 11:37 AM #61dash1GuestOriginally Posted by Sphere Hunter
An excellent first stab at the answer! But...
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03-11-2006 12:04 PM #7Originally Posted by 1dash1
I'm ready for the answer… did they shoot 129 or 131?
This makes me think. Has anyone ever done a study that produced a ratio between score and number of balls lost in a round? If this could be established, someone could estimate the number of balls they will need for the year based on their average score and an estimate of how many rounds they play plus how long it takes them to wear out a golf ball. I think I'm bored?
SH
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03-11-2006 12:30 PM #81dash1Guest
Sphere Hunter:
I'll give it a little more time for you or someone else to find the missing penalty strokes.
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03-13-2006 05:18 AM #91dash1GuestOriginally Posted by 1dash1
[1 stroke] _ The drive counts.
[2 strokes] _ The provisional ball counts under stroke & distance.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Dropping/playing the misidentified ball effectively
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ made the original ball lost and the provisional ball
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ became the ball in play.)
[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was played at a wrong place.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ (Since the original ball was not found, the player
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ should have continued with the provisional ball.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Failure to do so incurred the general penalty, Rule
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 20-7/Rule 13-1.)
[2 strokes] _ The misidentified ball was wrongly substituted, Rule 15-2.
[2 strokes] _ Player B played when it was his partner's turn, breach of
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Rule 29-3. (A hit the drive. B hit the provisional. It
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ was A's turn to play. B played because he thought he
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ found the original, but was mistaken.)
At this point, Player B's shot played out of turn is canceled. Player A must return to the spot where he picked up the provisional ball and correctly drop the ball. Their side lies "9", their next shot will be "10".
* * * * *
EDIT: I originally included supporting documentation for this ruling. However, it turned out to be too long and complicated. Consequently, I shortened this answer and refer anyone interested in the details to read through the complete discussion on the Leith Society web page, link provided in the Post Script message.
Last edited by 1dash1; 03-13-2006 at 05:49 AM.
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03-13-2006 05:23 AM #101dash1Guest
Post Script:
Credit goes to the Leith Society for this example. Their website is:http://www.leithsociety.com
The discussion is located on the In Depth page, under the following heading:
Rule 15: Substituted/wrong ball
Milo -- Thursday, 9 March 2006, at 2:02 p.m.
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03-13-2006 08:24 AM #11
Wow. I guess B should have made sure he found the correct ball. Seems to me that there are too many penalties for one simple mistake. I guess that's golf. I didn't see a penalty for "A" picking up the provisional ball. Shouldn't there be one?
Thanks for the challenge.
SH
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03-14-2006 05:06 AM #121dash1Guest
Sphere Hunter:
Good question.
Indeed, when a player lifts his ball in play, he's subject to the penalty for breach of Rule 18-2, unless an exception applies or unless the player was proceeding under some other applicable rule.
And if we examine the player's actions, no exception applied and, arguably, the player was not proceeding under another applcable rule.
So why wasn't he penalized?
The answer lies in a clever bit of misdirection. While it is true that the Provisional Ball should have played, that is only with respect to correcting the stroke played in wrong order. Meanwhile, in continuing the play of the ball played in the wrong order, the Provisional Ball was factually not in play. Dropping and playing the new ball had taken it out of play.
Hence, at the time the player picked up the Provisional Ball, it was not "the ball in play" and Rule 18-2 did not apply.
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03-14-2006 05:15 AM #131dash1Guest
There are many facets to this ruling. For example:
Originally Posted by 1dash1Last edited by 1dash1; 03-14-2006 at 05:31 PM.
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03-14-2006 04:49 PM #14
I prefer match play, both have lost the hole! Problem may be which one dit it first?
[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=2][FONT=Palatino Linotype]If you bury my ashes on a golf course, just make sure that they are out of bounds, that will be a natural continuation to my life[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
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03-14-2006 05:25 PM #151dash1Guest
3295:
Great!
It's something I encourage all players to do, play more match play! You can see how cumbersome the rules are when applied to stroke play rule. In match play, the solutions are much more elegant.
Match play really is a much purer form of the game.
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03-14-2006 08:06 PM #16
the first legal shot would be his 9th
Proost!
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03-14-2006 08:25 PM #171dash1Guest
Sandbagger72:
How did you arrive at your answer?
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03-16-2006 08:33 PM #18
count back lol. sorry i tried typing the answer but i cant type it to explain it. lol
might not sound smart but i cant explain it properly. but they would be hitting 9Proost!
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03-16-2006 10:06 PM #191dash1Guest
Sandbagger72:
Well, if you say so.
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04-07-2006 11:14 AM #20Originally Posted by Sphere Hunter
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04-07-2006 01:54 PM #21
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I'd hate to be in the group behind and have to watch that mess unfold
My opinions are my own, I do not follow others.
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