Golf simulator Technology

[bubba22]

Sites to learn golf simulator technologies!!!

http://www.ggssystems.com/Future.html

[JJSmith]

Golf Simulator technology overview and comparison.

http://wwiga.org/index.php/wwiga-mai...sor-technology

http://wwiga.org/index.php/wwiga-mai...olf-simulators

[psace]

Good resource for those looking for their first simulator as there is lots of information to absorb in making a decision!

[Par2Pro]

No to toot my own horn, but I post comparisons here:
http://www.par2pro.com/compare.php

And plan to have more resources this summer.

[bubba22]

Good link Cory. You should add sensors and cameras for Protee.

[Par2Pro]

Good point, it is now changed. I had the link to just the hitting sensor at one point but that option has since been removed. I hope to expand that section this summer

[geier]

The above links are nice, but a little disappointing in that they don't explain why the GC2 works as well as it does. Coming from a physics background and having contemplated building my own launch monitor, I just had to know and so I looked around a bit. Here is a link with good detail for those willing to skip through the patent lawyer language section and to the real meat:

www.google.com/patents/US7324663.pdf

Note: Those hailing from Foresight's competitors will not want to look at this document - triple damages and such ;-)

[Andisblue]

geier, I read that whole thing. There is a LOT that goes into that device! It never mentions anything about a stereoscopic camera. It seems to be just using a 2d image analysis and using the size of the ball in the image to determine azimuth.

[Feets57]

Bubba22', I'm new to all this. am looking to put a sim in my garage( 3rd bay plenty of room). This GSA system looks pretty good.
Might save me alot of hassle not to have to put composite system together by myself. Price looks not bad. Am looking for a lot
of practice and then matches with some buddies. What say you? Glad to join you guys. Feets 57

[geier]

geier, I read that whole thing. There is a LOT that goes into that device! It never mentions anything about a stereoscopic camera. It seems to be just using a 2d image analysis and using the size of the ball in the image to determine azimuth.

Yes I would bet the second camera is only a trick to acquire a second image quickly, I doubt that they do any "stereoscopic" calculations.

[Andisblue]

So what do you think? Even the rep told me that the the gc2 sees the dimples in 3d(which seemed a bit farfetched).

We know 1 cam watches continuously for that ball to move. Maybe it finds the ball in the frame, creates a small sampling window and then samples that small window at a very high framerate. As soon as the ball is struck, maybe, like you said, the other cam captures a fast 2nd frame (which is a full size frame). It then finds the ball, does it's trial spin correlation runs, and can then predict where the ball will be in the next frame.

I'm guessing the cameras take turns, which is supported by a video I saw of an emplyee saying that "each camera takes 8 pictures of the ball".

[bubba22]

The GC2 is most likely 2D for ball measurement. The determination of it's horizontal azimuth is the most suspect measurement of the GC2. That google patent PDF is a good article which I have read some months ago. It gives good info on the GC2 technology.

[CPA]

Suspect?
o
It would appear the owners are happy with azimuth.

Has azimuth been tested against anything more trusted.

[syhlif32]

The trigonometry used in the paper is for 2D.
The azimuth accuracy depends on the resolution of the camera as they measure the pixels width of the ball.
GC2 is a launch monitor and that is what the owners are happy with.

Owners happy with azimuth, there are two club fitters in south of Florida that are very happy with using a Zelocity for club fitting! Not sure how happy the customers are?

[geier]

The GC2 generally picks up pushes and pulls correctly. To what degree of precision? Hard to say. I agree with Bubba's use of the term "suspect" in that ball compression has to make it difficult to determine azimuth based on pixel count. I will do some checks with a putter and post the results.

I am still fascinated by how they get the clear still pictures of the ball. 1/1000s exposure still leaves a smear of 5cm for a ball off a driver. And they take 8 pictures? What kind of flash accomlishes that? There is probably some more technology that was not patented by them, maybe due to prior patents.

[FaultyClubs]

...ball compression has to make it difficult to determine azimuth based on pixel count...

They probably wait until ball compression isn't a factor....it doesn't take long for the ball to recover.

I am still fascinated by how they get the clear still pictures of the ball. 1/1000s exposure still leaves a smear of 5cm for a ball off a driver...

It's not dependant on frame rate (ie exposure) but flash speed. Actively triggered flashes (not RC time constant) are easily two orders of magnitude faster than that.

[geier]

One more thing - a second camera angle is very helpful in distinguishing azimuth from vertical angle.

[CPA]

Foresight say on their website the error is +/- 1 degree max.

anyone still remember sin/cos/tan to the extent necessary to figure out how far 1 degree error would be over 200 metres

[JBimsal]

Hey CPA, at 200m, a 1 degree error would be 3.49m offline. Not too shabby, and this is worst-case (I'd assume).

[CPA]

3.49.......I will take that.

I notice Martins TX page on gsa has a few clues on the tech. The photo with flash shows how it helps get a better image of th ball.

[Unkynd]

With as fast as technology changes, I'm sure most of the data in this thread is out of date. Is there a modern comparison chart anywhere?

[Crow]

Hi buuba link went nowhere for me. Of all the golf forums I've been checking out you and mthunt seem to contribute to all or most of them.
Saw what mthunt uses for his system and what you use for yours. The only difference being mthunt has the gc2 I believe. So does that mean your setup accommodates left and right handed play? You also mentioned in a post that you where looking into the sky track have you done so and incorporated it into your system and how do you like it if so? A big thing for me will be accommodating left and right handed play. If I do end up with a launch monitor is there much to disabling it when left handed golfers are over? As if it was just me and my wife then I would always hook up launch monitor as we are both right handed.

[mthunt]

Crow, your question is simple so I'll answer. I'm sure he will soon. Bubba's main system is Protee. It incorporates floor sensors and cameras but handles left and right handed players very nicely. I have a launch monitor which means no floor sensors but it's a pain with left and right handed players. I can tell you for me, if I had a lot of left and right handed needs, I'd have two GC2's.

To answer your other question, if you had a Protee and a GC2, it would be easy to change between the two if using TGC. The only way you could have two systems is Protee and GC2.

[Crow]

Thanks mthunt, still hoping to get down and see you. From your reply can I take it that you don't even need the protee or you don't use it as you have the GC2?

[mthunt]

My preference is the GC2 over Protee. I don't have any Protee sensors. The GC2 is all you need if you go that route.

[Crow]

I need to get in to foresight sports and see Aaron to check out the GC2 and GC2-T-

[tiger]

I know really good simulators from an Austrian company!
Visit there Homepage: https://indoor-sport-systeme.de

[hidrake]

I know this thread is a few years old but I just came across this post while looking through google about newer launch monitors. I’m thinking about upgrading my simulator soon and doing some research.

I did some pretty extensive research before I bought, and I was looking at SkyTrak, ES16, TruGolf, and GC2. Here’s a list of what I personally liked about each one.

SkyTrak
- Reasonably priced
- Can be used with PC, Ipad, or Android
- Great data feedback

The one thing that I’m not a fan of is the 4 second delay from when I hit the ball to when it shows up on the screen.

ES16
- Tracks every possible angle of your swing that you can think of
- Works with TGC, E6, and Perfect Parallel
- Quad Doppler Radar & Dual Photometric Camera in one Launch monitor

GC2
- HMT technology
- Chosen by PGA Pros
CON: Price REALLY adds up as you get all of the add-ons

TruGolf
- 4K HD graphics
- Multiplayer allows for up to 8 players
CON: $299 a year for E6 Connect (which I love) is still pretty pricey

I have been shocked at how much golf simulation software has changed over the past 5 years. Can’t even imagine what it will look like in another 5!