The demise of Stonebridge

[pagman]

If this goes through it will turn Stonebridge into a pitch and putt. Really sad, that course started out as a great track (still a good track) with a fabulous driving range. I'm sure the next proposal after this one will eventually be to completely turn it into residential housing. Mattamy knows the current state of golf vs the fact that homes are selling like hotcakes in Stonebridge these days. Running a profitable golf course doesn't match up against buiding 300-400 single family homes that would sell for over $600K each.

https://mailchi.mp/70de2368dc14/upco...1?e=f85ba1c1d6

[jeffc]

wow, that's crazy and too bad if they go ahead with it. It will turn a solid track into a bit of a joke. Who wants to go play a course that's 5600 yards from the tips. 4 par 3's on the front. That's just nuts.

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/82ceae...ne_27_2018.pdf

[jvincent]

Wow. They might as well bulldoze the whole thing.

[jeffc]

Wow. They might as well bulldoze the whole thing.

Yep..

[big mac]

There was talk last year about something happening. I may sound cynical here but as far as I am concerned the course was built to sell homes and once all the homes were sold---sell the course. There is no way that there are enough people to sway the Construction Firm from going ahead---too much money to lose. Wonder how many homes that are there now were sold under the banner "golf course view" ?

[Kilroy]

I have heard that a property backing a golf course adds about $75.000 to the sale price over the same model across the street.

Interestingly, there are no houses that would be directly affected in this way by this proposed re-development, at least in that there is still a golf course beyond the backyards for now.

I am saddened by this news. In 2004 (or so lol) I spent about 400 hours doing Stonebridge for Links (a computer golf game since defunct.) from the architect's actual plans.. on paper... OMG what a job. I know... Long time ago in a virtual world, far far away that nobody bothers with now, but yeah... lol

[em69]

Nobody should be surprised. I was there a few weeks back on a beautiful Saturday morning....and the parking lot was empty. It is quite clear, many people consider their fees to be high.

[jeffc]

Nobody should be surprised. I was there a few weeks back on a beautiful Saturday morning....and the parking lot was empty. It is quite clear, many people consider their fees to be high.

yet eQuinelle is packed and their fees are even higher (and it's in the middle of nowhere)

I played SB on Thurs and the course is as good as I have ever seen it. The greens were rolling incredibly. A lot of people paid significant lot fees to back onto a golf course. If they decide to do what is planned it's the beginning of the end for that course.

[pagman]

I spoke with one of my neighbours today who’s on the executive of the Stonebridge Community Association, you don’t have to be a Stonebridge resident to attend the meeting on the 27th, the more people voicing their displeasure to this plan the better. The developers usually get their way but you never know.

[Johnyc]

It wouldn't matter if the entire city of Ottawa showed up. Golf course business is a tough go right now and that land is worth a ton of money to the developer. I'm only surprised that it's lasted this long. And the truth is there probably needs to be a few golf courses to fail for others to succeed. The market is oversaturated here in Ottawa and now with min wage going up its tougher for the courses to maintain their level of service/maintenance.

[em69]

yet eQuinelle is packed and their fees are even higher (and it's in the middle of nowhere)

I played SB on Thurs and the course is as good as I have ever seen it. The greens were rolling incredibly. A lot of people paid significant lot fees to back onto a golf course. If they decide to do what is planned it's the beginning of the end for that course.

Much different experience at eQuinelle. For one, they have friendly pro shop staff. eQuinelle also offers some very good deals to make it affordable to many people. Stonebridge seems to stay with a business model which isn't working for them. Quite simply, if they were busier and making a good profit, these proposed changes wouldn't be happening.

[jeffc]

Much different experience at eQuinelle. For one, they have friendly pro shop staff. eQuinelle also offers some very good deals to make it affordable to many people. Stonebridge seems to stay with a business model which isn't working for them. Quite simply, if they were busier and making a good profit, these proposed changes wouldn't be happening.

Do you know for a fact they aren't making a good profit?

They both offer tee times at pretty much the same price. If anything SB is cheaper than EQ. Yes the pro shop is friendlier at EQ but I don't see that as a key factor. Even if they were busier and making a good profit (let's say for argument sake they made and extra $500K a year (which is probably way on the high side and not even possible - figure out how many more tee times you'd have to fill to get anywhere close to that number) as someone said, the land is worth way more to build houses on.

[em69]

They both offer tee times at pretty much the same price. If anything SB is cheaper than EQ.

Like I said, EQ offers deals which I have never seen from Stonebridge. In order to make a profit...any profit, you need to be busy, and they are not. I live 5 minutes from there I was hoping to play there a lot this year, but their numbers did not make sense to me personally, so we play elsewhere.

What this tells me is they always had the intentions to develop the land, which is sad for those people who paid for land premiums. There could be some lawsuits.

[jeffc]

Like I said, EQ offers deals which I have never seen from Stonebridge. In order to make a profit...any profit, you need to be busy, and they are not. I live 5 minutes from there I was hoping to play there a lot this year, but their numbers did not make sense to me personally, so we play elsewhere.

What this tells me is they always had the intentions to develop the land, which is sad for those people who paid for land premiums. There could be some lawsuits.

They don't really offer deals - a few bucks off but nothing more. Their hot deal on Thurs AM is $56, regular price $60. SB is $60 during a weekday morning. Their pricing is very close to the same.

[Muddler]

Hmmm... I should probably go play this course at least once before it gets bulldozed. I’m not really a fan of golf courses built around sub-divisions.

[Guzman]

I played there several times, I never seen anybody play from the black tees, I normally play yellow/blue and it is a fairly difficult track, we need to be realistic how many people play there from the back tees?

[jvincent]

When I used to play SB I only ever played the black tees. It was never a long course. If this happens it will be stupidly short from every tee box.

The worst change in the proposal is the new 9th hole. The putting green and chipping green would become a 114 yard par 3. Ignoring the stupidity of the layout, it's not particularly safe given where it is.

What they should do is turn the current 3rd (new 4th) into a par 3 and par 4. It's no less stupid than what they are doing now but at least it is safe.

[jeffc]

When I used to play SB I only ever played the black tees. It was never a long course. If this happens it will be stupidly short from every tee box.

The worst change in the proposal is the new 9th hole. The putting green and chipping green would become a 114 yard par 3. Ignoring the stupidity of the layout, it's not particularly safe given where it is.

What they should do is turn the current 3rd (new 4th) into a par 3 and par 4. It's no less stupid than what they are doing now but at least it is safe.

SB can be a beast from the tips, especially on some longer holes with the elevated greens which aren't overly conducive to a long iron approach shot. I don't recall seeing anyone play it from there in my dozens of rounds over the years.

As for #9, that is pure looney tunes. If you look at it in Google Maps, I assume they are moving the halfway house closer to the road since there is no room right now. Even at that, a bladed wedge will take someone out on the practice green. Another option is to make 10 a par 3 and par 4 - again, no sillier than what they have proposed already. Just add a windmill somewhere and you are all set.

[Johnyc]

Bulldoze it and move on. Sucks but this is the reality when developers are involved and other stakeholders who are focused on profit and maximizing ROI. Much more money in building lots than there is in green fees especially as the costs to run and maintain a golf course are increasing annually while revenues lines are likely flat or on the decline.

[em69]

As for #9, that is pure looney tunes. If you look at it in Google Maps, I assume they are moving the halfway house closer to the road since there is no room right now. Even at that, a bladed wedge will take someone out on the practice green. Another option is to make 10 a par 3 and par 4 - again, no sillier than what they have proposed already. Just add a windmill somewhere and you are all set.

Looks like the get rid of the putting green, but keep the chipping green.

[golfisforfun]

It is quite simple... Let's do the math...
6 tee times per hour x 4 golfers per spot x $60 per golfer x 9 hours per day x 7 days per week x 20 weeks per season = $1.8M in golf revenues
There is not a single course that operates at that capacity at full price, so let's cut that down to 60% occupancy, so around $1M in golf revenues.
Then you can subtract all your wages, your course maintenance fees, your property taxes, your operating costs etc etc etc...

It is pretty easy to see why selling lots to build houses is much more profitable than running a golf course!

[314314]

If the Stonebridge community does not support the course (like none playing it) then why would the owners keep it open?

[jvincent]

Because anyone with a golf course lot paid a $75K premium for it. That's why they aren't changing any of the holes with houses on it. The owners would sue.

If people stop playing it's win-win for the homeowners. Golf course lot with no golfers to disturb them.

[Hanna43]

As a 5 day member at Stonebridge my question is where to next. My options
1) Equinnelle (30 min drive)
2) Hylands (I have heard the course is packed)
3) Emerald Links
4) Meadows
5) Other??

[jeffc]

As a 5 day member at Stonebridge my question is where to next. My options
1) Equinnelle (30 min drive)
2) Hylands (I have heard the course is packed)
3) Emerald Links
4) Meadows
5) Other??

here's the map - depends how far you want to drive.

http://www.ottawagolf.com/ottawa-course-map.html

[314314]

I like the top 3.. Yet, I am now a member at Hylands this year and I can go out anytime I want (no issues booking). I think it the best deal in town with 2 18s, driving-rage, 3 putting areas and 2 practice holes with sand traps.

As a 5 day member at Stonebridge my question is where to next. My options
1) Equinnelle (30 min drive)
2) Hylands (I have heard the course is packed)
3) Emerald Links
4) Meadows
5) Other??

[Johnyc]

Because anyone with a golf course lot paid a $75K premium for it. That's why they aren't changing any of the holes with houses on it. The owners would sue.

If people stop playing it's win-win for the homeowners. Golf course lot with no golfers to disturb them.

Wonder how many original homeowners are still in their place? So much turnover in these communities. I'm in riverside south and I'd venture a guess that 75% of the houses on my street have been bought and sold in the last 5 years.

I'm not sure if the homeowners could in fact sue. Far worse than this is a condo tenant buying a unit with view on the 30th floor only to have a new build go up 3 years later right across the street and now the view is gone. Nothing is guaranteed and there has to be some sort of statue of limitations on these sort of things. Can't promise that there will be a golf course view forever.

[big mac]

Played Tuesday---lots of talk with folks working for the course----seems to be a forgone conclusion that the 4 hole re-arrangement will happen no matter what. They are expecting a huge turnout for the meeting but as folks say---do the math
Personally I am down to 2 games a week and will ONLY play Stonebridge--Equinelle--Sorcier--Carleton and Hawksbury. I just want to enjoy the game and not fuss with 5 and 5 1/2 rounds etc etc. Thanks to EG I can afford it

[Johnyc]

Played Tuesday---lots of talk with folks working for the course----seems to be a forgone conclusion that the 4 hole re-arrangement will happen no matter what. They are expecting a huge turnout for the meeting but as folks say---do the math
Personally I am down to 2 games a week and will ONLY play Stonebridge--Equinelle--Sorcier--Carleton and Hawksbury. I j want to enjoy the game and not fuss with 5 and 5 1/2 rounds etc etc. Thanks to EG I can afford it

Probably the biggest advantage of being a member at a private club; slowest round this year was 4 hours and 3 minutes. Average round is 3:15. I couldn't handle 5 or 6 hours. The quick rounds offset playing the same course day in and day out, at least in my opinion

[MarcArt]

Hi Hanna43,
You have put together a good list... You obviously know where these are in relation to where you live.
My recommendation, play the others, then come and play Hylands at my invitation.
You'll know then which is the best for you.
Regards. (PM me if you want to play Hylands).
Marcart.