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Thread: Attending the Flagstick
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03-23-2005 02:29 PM #1
Attending the Flagstick
Gary,
Rule 17-1 starts with:
The start Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.
I've always been under the impression that if you were not on the green, you only had the choice of leaving the flagstick in, or to have it removed. Yet this rule says that the flagstick could be attended. Does this mean the same thing as attending the flagstick during a putt? Can the flagstick be removed after the shot from off of the green has been taken and the ball still in motion? I can't seem to find a rule to cover this.It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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03-23-2005 08:57 PM #2Originally Posted by Colby
THIS is the Rule you are looking for.
This IS the Rule for attending the flagstick.
The Rule says: from anywhere on the course.
The Rules does not say your ball has to be on the putting green.
The flagstick is just more often attended when the ball lies on the putting green.
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03-23-2005 09:59 PM #3
Perfect.
Thanks Gary. That's probably why I couldn't find anythingIt could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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05-20-2005 08:44 PM #4"Richard"Guest
Hey gary, had a question for you. I was off the green chipping and my friend pulled the flag as the ball was going at the hole. I didn't see if the ball rolled over the hole of if it missed it and it doesn't really matter to me or not. But what does the rule say here?
Also, my other friend putt while the flag was still in the hole.. he came up really short but my friend said you aren't allowed to put at all while the flag is still in the hole. Do I still have to pull the flag if he is well short?
Finally, lets say my friend is on the green putting from 60 feet but I'm closer but off the green chipping (10 feet)...
Who goes first? and if for some reason the FC putting goes first and has the flag pulled does that mean that I get to put the flag back in for my chip? Or does it stay out since it was already pulled for the put.
THanks
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05-20-2005 08:55 PM #5Who goes first? and if for some reason the FC putting goes first and has the flag pulled does that mean that I get to put the flag back in for my chip? Or does it stay out since it was already pulled for the put.I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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05-20-2005 08:59 PM #6"Richard"Guest
thanks
awesome, for some reason I was under the impression that if someone is farther but on the green and I was shorter but off the green.. he got to go first and I wouldn't get to put the flag back in for my shot
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05-20-2005 09:50 PM #7Originally Posted by thotho[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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05-20-2005 09:55 PM #8Originally Posted by thotho
Originally Posted by thotho
Originally Posted by thotho
Originally Posted by thotho
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05-20-2005 10:01 PM #9Originally Posted by Steve Karam
Rule 10-2. Stroke Play
b. During Play of Hole
After the competitors have started play of the hole, the ball farthest from the hole is played first. If two or more balls are equidistant from the hole or their positions relative to the hole are not determinable, the ball to be played first should be decided by lot.
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05-20-2005 11:31 PM #10
I never knew that. I've always played that way but never thought it was a rule.
I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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05-21-2005 09:46 AM #11"Richard"Guest
Awesome, thanks boys
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05-21-2005 11:39 AM #12Originally Posted by Gary Hill
See Rule 17-3.
The player’s ball must not strike:
a. The flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up;
b. The person attending or holding up the flagstick; or
c. The flagstick in the hole, unattended, when the stroke has been made on the putting green.
Exception: When the flagstick is attended, removed or held up without the player’s authority — see Rule 17-2.
So, while you can putt all you want on the green with the flagstick still in the hole, just don't hit it, or hole out with it still in the hole.When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-21-2005 11:44 AM #13"Richard"Guest
ok, I was so conufsed because it says if you hit the stick its a penalty but you can putt with the flag still in and didn't want to sound like a dummy. Anyway, thanks again for clearning that up. The rules make sense when you read them but when you are in the situation I can't remember how to apply the rule I guess I just have to read more carefully
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05-23-2005 09:14 AM #14
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- Mar 2005
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ball hitting flag stick on the ground
Who would receive the penalty for a ball striking the flagstick that is on the ground
Also if you see that an opponents ball is going to strike the flag stick on the ground are you allowed to move the flagstick
thanks
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05-23-2005 09:36 AM #15Originally Posted by davemiddle
Originally Posted by davemiddle
No if the flag was removed prior to the stroke being played. See Decision 17-1/7When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-23-2005 07:10 PM #16
Quote:Originally Posted by davemiddle
Also if you see that an opponents ball is going to strike the flag stick on the ground are you allowed to move the flagstick
Originally Posted by LobWedge
How many times do I have to repeat this?
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05-23-2005 08:00 PM #17Originally Posted by davemiddle
This is covered by 17-3 The player's ball must not strike:
a) The flagstick when it is being attended, removed, or held up
Since the flagstick has been removed and placed on the ground, the player who has hit the flagstick loses the hole in match play or receives a two stroke penaltiy in stroke play and the ball must be played where it lies.
Originally Posted by davemiddle
1-2. Exerting influence on Ball
A player or caddie must not take any action to influence the position or the movement of ball except in accordance with the Rules.
Penalty - Match play, loss of hole, Stroke play - 2 strokes.
I can't find anything in the flagstick section that deals with this, and Section 19 - Ball in motion deflected or stopped, deals with outside agencies, players, partners, opponents, fellow competitos and their equipment. In the definition of the flagstick, it doesn't say that it becomes equipment. Also this section deals with hitting things, I can't find anything on moving something so the ball doesn't hit it.
So back to the simple one, Rule 1-2. Is that right?It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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05-23-2005 08:39 PM #18Originally Posted by Gary HillWhen applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-24-2005 05:16 AM #19Originally Posted by LobWedge
That is what the decisions are all about. Single case situations.
Without your above clarification, the decision does not apply.
Listing a bunch of decisions and leaving it up to the reader to figure out which ones apply to his question is more harmful than helpful.
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05-24-2005 05:38 AM #20Originally Posted by Colby
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05-24-2005 07:34 AM #21
woohoo!
It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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05-24-2005 08:31 AM #22Originally Posted by Gary Hill
What is the status of a flagstick when it is removed and placed off of the green in the fringe or rough? What happens if a ball is putted off the green and strikes the flagstick then?When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-24-2005 09:40 AM #23Originally Posted by LobWedgeIt could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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05-24-2005 10:46 AM #24
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- Apr 2005
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Clarification Request
1. If I ask to have the flag held up because I can't see it from behind the green, then I hit the person holding it with my lob shot, I get a 2 stroke penalty, even though I'm off the green.
17-3. Ball Striking Flagstick or Attendant The player’s ball must not strike:
a. The flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up;
b. The person attending or holding up the flagstick; or
c. The flagstick in the hole, unattended, when the stroke has been made on the putting green.
2. The person who jumps over to pull the pin when he sees my ball approaching the hole is assessed a 2 stoke penalty. This happened when I was putting from just off the green and my FC was not attending the flag, but marking his ball when I putted and he literally jumped over and pulled the flag. The ball rolled over the centre of the hole and about 15 feet past. He said he thought I was on the green and apologized and suggested I take the shot over. Of course there is no rule allowing "do overs" when an FC screws up.
24-1. When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than an attended flagstick or equipment of the players, must not be removed.
(Exerting influence on ball — see Rule 1-2.)
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05-24-2005 12:00 PM #25
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Originally Posted by LobWedgehttp://www.EatDrinkSleepGolf.com
Myrtle Beach Golf
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05-24-2005 12:09 PM #26Originally Posted by EDSGOLFIt could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
Colby
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05-24-2005 07:13 PM #27Originally Posted by LobWedge
Rule 17-3 says the player’s ball must not strike the flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up.
The Rule does not list any notes or exceptions. If there were exceptions it would list them.
(e.g. Rule 28. The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard.)
If your ball strikes the flagstick after a stroke when the flagstick is removed from the hole, you have breached Rule 17-3. The end.
It does NOT say: only if your ball is on the putting green.
It does NOT say: only if the flagstick is on the putting green.
It does NOT say: only if the flagstick is nearby.
It does NOT say: only if you have a wager with your playing companions.
Try to use this technique when reading other Rules and you will quickly become an expert in the Rules.
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05-24-2005 10:31 PM #28Originally Posted by Gary Hill
This then becomes a question of interpretation. Rule 17-3 reads "...must not strike the flagstick when it is being attended, removed or held up." The operative word in the sentence is "being" and how it relates to the words "attended", "removed" and "held up". These actions, in my opinion, are all described in the present tense as happening during the course of the stroke being played, ie. "being attended", "being removed" or "being held up".
In the situation I described before, the flagstick has already "been removed" (past tense), and in my interpretation, does not apply to 17-3. I know this seems like splitting hairs, but the rule is poorly written in that it can be open to interpretation, regardless of how the committee intended it to be read.
That is why I asked the question.When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-25-2005 12:22 PM #29
Actually, it is a question of grammar, and that is exactly how it is meant to be read.
Last edited by Gary Hill; 05-25-2005 at 03:24 PM. Reason: edited for size
When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-25-2005 03:25 PM #30
I stand corrected on the grammar.
The offending text has been removed.
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