Lance Armstrong... superman

[Evil Chris]

I mean come on... 7 Tours in a row.
It's almost unbelievable.

Probably the most amazing athlete modern man has ever known.

[nokids]

bump

[Kiwi]

I'll take the bait... Never failed a drug test, and sunk by the word of 11 admitted liars & cheats. Guilty until proven innocent. Gosh what a great country.

[jmwhite]

George Hincapie? His loyal teammate a liar and cheat? Ya ok...

[jeffc]

I'll take the bait... Never failed a drug test, and sunk by the word of 11 admitted liars & cheats. Guilty until proven innocent. Gosh what a great country.

Really???

[Kiwi]

George Hincapie? His loyal teammate a liar and cheat? Ya ok...

Not sure how to read your comment, but in the event that some feel Hincapie is "credible", there are many recent articles available through Google where he admits to cheating (drug use) and the record is clear that he lied about it until he grew a conscience. Let me be clear, I'm a fan of Lance's and will continue to be one whether he admits to using drugs, or is found guilty of doing so in a fair judicial process, not a witch hunt. What irks me is the circus that professes to be a just process, that investigates then declares someone guilty without due process. What has gone on so far is nothing short of a railroad job. If you have the evidence, charge him and let him defend himself. He's guilty in the media's opinion and that's all that counts. How hypocritical that the same media in the same country attack other country's judicial systems for the similar lack of fairness and due process.

[bNeill]

Nike does a pretty good job protecting their athletes. As an example, there was more to the Nadal layoff than most realize.

[golfinteg]

Nike does a pretty good job protecting their athletes. As an example, there was more to the Nadal layoff than most realize.

When Nike fires you.especially when you are one of the 'biggest cash cow'...that's it.... you are beyond redemption!

"Lance has misled us for a decade" claims Nike.

Nike stood by Tiger, Rooney, Kobe et al even tho' they are guilty of cheating on their spouses.

UCI stripping Armstrong of his 7 titles is the final nail to the coffin.

[golfinteg]

Is Lance Armstrong a victim or a bully?
Let's hear what one of Lance victims, another former close friend, have to say

That friendship began to unravel in October of 1996 when Frankie and Betsy, then engaged, traveled to Armstrong’s Indianapolis hospital room to provide comfort and support after the cylist was diagnosed with testicular cancer.

During that hospital visit, the Andreus say they overheard Armstrong tell doctors that he has used performance-enhancing drugs, including testosterone, human growth hormone and EPO. It was the first time that Betsy learned that Armstrong and his teammates had used banned substances, and she was deeply disturbed by the news, worried that the drug use had fueled Armstrong’s cancer.

“I’m not f** marrying you if you’re doing that s***,” she told Frankie, the man she was scheduled to marry two months later, according to an affidavit she provided to USADA. “That’s how he got his cancer.”

Frankie vowed he would not use performance-enhancing drugs, and the couple married on Dec. 31, 1996. But under pressure from Armstrong — who urged him to “get serious” about the sport — Frankie used EPO in preparation for the 1999 Tour de France. When Betsy found a thermos containing EPO in the refrigerator of their home in Nice, she urged Frankie to quit Armstrong’s team.

The Andreus and the Armstrongs remained friends, at least until 2003, when Irish journalist David Walsh, the author of groundbreaking books and articles about Armstrong’s doping, contacted the Andreus seeking information about Armstrong and the Indiana hospital incident. Word got back to Armstrong.

The tension between Armstrong and the Andreus exploded after 2006, when the couple was forced to testify in a contract dispute between Armstrong and a company called SCA Promotions, which had withheld a multi-million dollar bonus from Armstrong over allegations of doping. Both Andreus say they testified that they had heard Armstrong tell his physicians that he had used performance-enhancing drugs.

Armstrong, in his own SCA deposition, denied he had made the admission. But when asked why the Andreus would make up the story, his sworn testimony was vague. Betsy lied, he said, because “she hates me.” Frankie sided with his wife, the cyclist added, because he was “trying to back up his old lady.”

Armstrong’s camp later claimed that the Andreus were bitter because Frankie’s contract with the Postal Service was not renewed after the 2000 season, although the USADA report concludes that Armstrong had urged Frankie in an email to return to the team in 2001.

Andreu served as the assistant team director that year and in 2002, and the couples continued to travel together in Europe after Frankie retired from racing.

“This evidence provides a strong indication that Armstrong intentionally vilified a longtime friend and his friend’s wife merely to protect himself,” USADA concluded.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...#ixzz2A5pJnYPn

So is Betsy Andreus another 'dope & cheat' like George Hincappie?

[nokids]

What I want to know now is whether Miguel Indurain was doping too? He won 5 straight Tours before Lance. He also says Lance should keep his 7 titles. Makes one wonder if they were all doping then it's like the steroid era in baseball and records should stand even though cheaters are being rewarded for breaking rules.

[fundonny]

Who cares? The guy shouldn't be alive. Whatever he was taking, if I was going through cancer and recovering, I'd want to take some too. The foundation has done so much good you can't put it into words. If he and livestrong saved ONE life, which of course they did, then it was all worth it. Lance will never be a villain. And besides, I bet it was an equal playing field in every one of those tour de frances, every one racing was likely doping.

[nokids]

Livestrong hasnt saved anybody. "cancer awareness" is bs.

If i had cancer I wouldnt want to know!

[fundonny]

It was the inspiration. The mind is powerful.

[sharkshooter]

What I want to know now is whether Miguel Indurain was doping too? He won 5 straight Tours before Lance. He also says Lance should keep his 7 titles. Makes one wonder if they were all doping then it's like the steroid era in baseball and records should stand even though cheaters are being rewarded for breaking rules.

Also makes one wonder why the Tour is not naming anyone else as winner of those seven tours. Perhaps because everyone of them (or at least the runners-up) was also using.

Five cyclists stand to inherit Lance Armstrong’s seven Tour de France wins after he is stripped of the titles by anti-doping authorities. Three of those cyclists have served doping bans and one may be probed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...cusations.html

[golfinteg]

George Hincapie? His loyal teammate a liar and cheat? Ya ok...

Michael Barry, another former Lance's domestique, a reluctant whistle-blower who broke cycling's Omerta too.
A respected Canadian all-rounder, just retired after three years with Team Sky.

Barry halted his participation in the US Postal Service team doping program after serious injuries he sustained as a result of a crash at the 2006 Tour of Flanders convinced him that he was risking his life for a team that did not care about his health or well-being.
"After being encouraged by the team, pressured to perform and pushed to my physical limits I crossed a line I promised myself and others I would not: I doped."

[Kiwi]

Livestrong hasnt saved anybody. "cancer awareness" is bs.

If i had cancer I wouldnt want to know!

Here is hoping you never have to make that decision.

[downhillslider]

Nike does a pretty good job protecting their athletes. As an example, there was more to the Nadal layoff than most realize.

Can you elaborate a little. My wife is a huge Raf fan !

[Kiwi]

Is Lance Armstrong a victim or a bully?
Let's hear what one of Lance victims, another former close friend, have to say



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...#ixzz2A5pJnYPn

So is Betsy Andreus another 'dope & cheat' like George Hincappie?

Let me be clear, my issue is NOT with "did he or didn't he" it's with the unfair process that has unfolded to brand him a cheat and liar. If there were only one way to interpret the above statement/article, as USADA appears to believe, then I'd say they have a pretty good case. But consider this, Andreus took drugs and lied about. He lied to his wife, they both overheard a private conversation between a dying man and his doctor, and they kept quiet. Who is Andreus going to side with? His team mate or his wife? There were other business disputes between them, and it's unheard of that people drag other "dirt" in to a dispute to make the other party look bad? If I want credible witnesses I'll ask someone who has nothing to gain or lose by telling the truth. Would like to hear what the doctor had to say. Cannot get him to disclose it, Dr. / patient confidentiality? Compel him with a subpoena in a court of law. None, repeat None of the witnesses are credible as they are either liars or cheats or have an axe to grind. Don't know too many on this Forum that would want to see their loved one be treated like this. Due process is lacking. Charge him, convict him, then call him a cheat.

[golfinteg]

"Lance Armstrong tried to make my life hell, says ex-US Postal soigneur"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...g-emma-oreilly

Why did Emma O'Reilly, another of Lance Armstrong's victim, kept silent all those years?

"she was concerned about being perceived as disloyal and about the reactions of Armstrong and the team. But as the headlines about cycling and the deaths of riders increased, O'Reilly said she changed her mind. "

For breaking cycling's Omerta she got sued for 1 million euros by Lance Armstrong and get demonized as a 'prostitute and alcoholic'. Won't you call her a victim of Lance's witch hunt?

"I wanted to clean up cycling. There was intimidation, bullying and stress. You try and get on with your life. I was only speaking the truth." claims Emma.

[Kiwi]

"Lance Armstrong tried to make my life hell, says ex-US Postal soigneur"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012...g-emma-oreilly

Why did Emma O'Reilly, another of Lance Armstrong's victim, kept silent all those years?


For breaking cycling's Omerta she got sued for 1 million euros by Lance Armstrong and get demonized as a 'prostitute and alcoholic'. Won't you call her a victim of Lance's witch hunt?

Two things continue to surprise me regarding this, and similar stories... (1) that the "victim" goes to the media first, and (2) that there are naive/gullable people out there that believe that everything they read in the paper is the whole truth. Put these "victims" on the witness stand, under oath, subject to cross-examination and see how their stories stand up.

[golfinteg]

Will Armstrong recant?
Just like Carl Lewis did in 2003 interview 'that he tested positive 3 time in 1988 but he was let off as that was the normal practice in those times'.

[funk-like]

A friend of mine lives in Atlanta. His wife's sister is married to one of Lance's former teammates. I won't name him here. His wife's sister spent time with the US Postal team in Spain, while they trained. My friend's wife spent a couple of weeks there one summer. Lance is not defending himself, because he is guilty. He had some great doctors.

[kemcheca]

Who cares? The guy shouldn't be alive. Whatever he was taking, if I was going through cancer and recovering, I'd want to take some too. The foundation has done so much good you can't put it into words. If he and livestrong saved ONE life, which of course they did, then it was all worth it. Lance will never be a villain. And besides, I bet it was an equal playing field in every one of those tour de frances, every one racing was likely doping.

Maybe Lance got cancer from too many PED's. As for Livestrong they should change it to Lie Strong.

[golfinteg]

Emma O'Reilly was approached by investigative journalists first and only later decided to talk for safety concerns of others.

Now let's take the case of another soigneur, Suzanne Sonye. She didn't tattle-tale to the media. She went the process route.
Why did she break Cycling's Omerta then?

According to her friend

Suzanne’s former teammate, Kimberly Baldwin, who is married to Rock Racing’s Chris Baldwin, explains it from another angle: “You have to understand the culture we came from at Saturn. We were the top women’s team in the world, and we were clean. We struggled every day against women who we knew were not. Suzanne knows what it’s like to feel that injustice. And as a soigneur, she knows how hard those guys not taking drugs are training. To have someone get where they got by injecting a needle, it’s just not fair.”

http://www.womensadventuremagazine.c...suzanne-sonye/

[kemcheca]

I mean come on... 7 Tours in a row.
It's almost unbelievable.

Probably the most amazing athlete modern man has ever known.

No way! Read the USDA report and you will have a different point of view!

[golfinteg]

A bit of background to Suzanne Sonye above
According to NY times it was a tattooed cyclist that eventually led to Lance Armstrong downfall
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sp...pagewanted=all

But during a race in July, he was required to take a drug test. Worried that he would fail, he confided in one of his team’s assistants, Suzanne Sonye, the soigneur, about his doping.
“I remember thinking she was O.K. with it because that’s what cyclists did,” Leogrande said. “I was naive. I knew cyclists on other teams that did it, and we would talk about it. But Suzanne wasn’t O.K. with it.”
That casual confession — not the drug test — opened a Pandora’s box. Though Leogrande had no firsthand knowledge of Armstrong’s doping, the confession provided the initial thread that would lead investigators to others who did.
Leogrande’s drug test did not come back positive. But Sonye reported his confession to the antidoping agency. Her testimony, and evidence provided by Papp — photographs of Leogrande with EPO and a handwritten note — sank Leogrande.
At the end of 2008, the antidoping agency suspended him for two years based on “nonanalytical” evidence, rather than failed drug tests.

[golfinteg]

No way! Read the USDA report and you will have a different point of view!

It's good that you read USADA report. Then you won't be tagged as 'gullible' to tabloid reports

[kemcheca]

Armstong networth is $125M, he was the leader of the PED cycling mafia omertà. I hope he gets sued by US Postal, Tour de Farce and many others.

Armstrong tested positive for EPO at the 2001 Tour du Suisse. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis that he had tested positive for EPO and stated he had been able to make the test result go away.Roger Clemens, Sammy Sossa, Mark McGuire never failed any drug tests either, but they were guilty of cheating, too.

Al Capone was never charged for murder, but he was a murder. What do all of them have in common? They tried to hide their guilt. That's what cheats and criminals do!

[bNeill]

[/B]

Can you elaborate a little. My wife is a huge Raf fan !

I heard from a Euro tour player who he is friends with that he failed a test but because of the bad publicity it would create for the tennis community they didn't disclose it and so he claimed he was/is injured.

[mjf]

The apology Lance Armstrong should - but never will - give: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/a...496/story.html