Game improvement with use of simulator.

[andyfive]

Hi All,

Thought I would create a thread to get feedback on whether using a simulator has improved your actual game. Has your handicap reduced as a direct result of using your simulator? If so, which part of your game has improved (e.g Driving, Long Irons, Chipping, Putting etc..)? Indeed, has your game suffered in any way as a result of using your simulator?

For me, I have been working on stopping a push with my driver. I only have a Launchpad Tour and a push shows up as a slice but I worked on getting straight shots to show up and sure enough, last time I played, I had no big push shots which is encouraging. No reduction in handicap yet though but maybe in the new season.

Regards.

[blackfire]

Hi All,

Thought I would create a thread to get feedback on whether using a simulator has improved your actual game. Has your handicap reduced as a direct result of using your simulator? If so, which part of your game has improved (e.g Driving, Long Irons, Chipping, Putting etc..)? Indeed, has your game suffered in any way as a result of using your simulator?

For me, I have been working on stopping a push with my driver. I only have a Launchpad Tour and a push shows up as a slice but I worked on getting straight shots to show up and sure enough, last time I played, I had no big push shots which is encouraging. No reduction in handicap yet though but maybe in the new season.

Regards.

Hey andyfive,

Personnaly I have the P3Pro for about 6 months now so I can't tell you if it improved my game outside but I can tell you that if you whant to understand your swing and be able to correct your swing the P3Pro is the way to go and you can also have fun with it.

[northgolf]

Hi Andy,

Ask me in 6 months.

I have trepidations as I got the P3Proswing and I am going to have to move to sweeping instead of digging on my irons. I like the data I'm getting and I will learn how my actions change that data, but I won't know how that translates to the course until next summer.

north

[syhlif32]

I think it depends. For us it has been a huge improvment. We have quite a distance to drive to play golf and we do have a lot of rain in our area.
So for us we practice on the simulator and go to the course to play and practice the short game.

Our simulato is a DD

[bubba22]

I agree it depends. For me the simulator has been 3 things:
1) Fun
2) Swing maintenance in the winter
3) Some swing improvement

For the most part it is 1 and 2. As a 4 handicap where I need the most practice for game improvement is my short game and I do not think the simulator is the best for that.

Edit: Further to add, the simulators also do not really help with ones overall alignment to the target. The target alignment is automatic and perfect on the simulator where as in real golf your alignment towards your target can be a big problem.

[bubba22]

Has anyone who keeps handicaps found a significant change in their handicap with sim play? Not an estimation or "about a" score but a true change in their index or factor.

[pingB]

hey bubba. I went from not even bothering having a handicap to finally tracking one. I'm a 14 now. The only thing I ever really worked on was my irons on the DD. Now I need to work on the short game and my fairway woods which should be much better to do with the new GGS i'm getting.

I somewhat disagree though that you can't work on the short game. I think chipping and putting maybe is iffy but for sure pitching and distance wedges can be worked on. I'd actually rather work on the simulator because I can know my distances for sure. Which is not quite as easy on the practice range.

Obviously what happens after the ball hits is not always that accurate. For me it's not that big of a deal though because I know in my head what the ball does. So if I've practiced a 20 yard pitch over and over with a pitching wedge and a 60 degree wedge I'll be able to use that shot on the course when the hole is 25 yards with the pitching wedge or try to stick it close to the hole with the 60 degree if it's 20 yards more or less.

Luckily there are GPS devices.. I wouldn't be able to read it that well w/out one. Which I guess is the other part of where the simulator sort of hurts you.. not being able to look and get a feel for the distance.

But anyway I owe all my improvements to a simulator and interestingly enough a simulator that is not the greatest thing on the market. I fully expect to be a 10 or 11 by the end of the summer. (Summers are really long down here so maybe by october =)

[bubba22]

Good to see your improvement. Keep it up. For me the short game is about distance control with respect to the lie of the ball. Obviously the sim will not reproduce different surfaces. I practice short wedge shots but for those knowing the launch angle is critical for me. Keep us posted as your handicap comes down. Do you practice at the range at all or just on the sim?

[pingB]

I go to the range occasionally but it's pretty rare. Down here it is really windy all the time. It's not uncommon for 26mph winds which is frustrating to practice in. Not to mention the 106 heat index. I've only had the DD until yesterday I got the GGS. I pretty much primarily worked irons and pitching on the DD. I go to my back yard for pitching as well though because I like to check my distances against real world. I have not really been able to work my woods though because I just could never get the DD to read it correctly and it caused me more problems than it helped.. Hoping that changes.

That and chipping.. I have neglected chipping entirely. If I hit more fairways and I worked on my chipping I'd be easily into the 10 range or lower with my handicap. Then it just comes down to my putting. I've gotten pretty good over just normal play but I need to start being able to hit my 14 -10ft birdie shots to really get my score down.

Another problem I've had is with course management. There has been at least 1 major blow up hole on all of my rounds. Mainly because the course I play on has a lot of trees and a lot of sand so it's easy to rack up strokes if you are not playing smart.

[bubba22]

Awesome to hear and good luck. You will like the PX2. Once you get the 2 cams then the system will really come alive.

[evo99]

Will have to wait a month or two to hopefully see any handicap change (~13.5), however......I have a membership at a 9-hole par 30 (six 3s, three 4s) course. Have not been to range at all, 28 nine-hole rounds so far this year. Swing has been all over the place as I try to settle on something consistent. Finally got a tarp up with my DD so I could hit the foam balls without ducking for cover as they zip back off the wall. Spent 10 min hitting balls on the DD driving range with an 8-iron. Went out the next day at lunch and shot a career low 32 over 9 holes! Felt confident over every swing. Of course my short game was clutch but the confidence on the tee got everything going - chipping from just off the green is a whole lot easier than pitching over a bunker from 25 yards away!

So while a good short game round was a huge factor in scoring a 32 instead of the usual 35-38, the confidence gained from being able to hit balls at home got it started.

Still not yet what folks are hoping to see....a significant handicap change....but with a little hard work I can hopefully post some significant results before too long!

[bubba22]

Awesome evo. Keep us posted.

[rdh]

I don't think anyone can say that a simulator itself made them improve. Improvement in golf basically comes down to improving your swing mechanics, and practicing enough to groove it. Whether you do that on the range or a simulator, it is still time invested and you should see the payback. Myself, I find I get far more feedback from the range on the simulator than I do a real driving range (I often can't tell if my shot went 160, 165 or 170 yards) and that is very helpful. So, the quality of the feedback and the fact that I can simply invest time in practice that I otherwise wouldn't be able to (due to driving time to the range or snow in the off-season) have greatly helped me. My game really has transformed over the past year and a half with the simulator. My goal was to get my game back to where it was when I was younger, and although my scoring isn't quite there yet (mostly due to short game...I was pretty amazing as a kid at chipping and putting) my ball striking is better than it ever was before. Two years ago I only played three rounds and didn't break 100. Last year I was generally in the mid 80s. Last week I played at Wooden Sticks (first time...I though the replica holes were super cool) and shot an 84 with a few silly mistakes so I feel I should have been around 80. I'm very happy with where I'm at, and there's no way I would have gotten her without the simulator, largely due to time constraints.

I also find scores on my simulator with GSA Golf are very accurate to what I shoot in real life, assuming I play a course that is typical of the parkland courses I really play on. If I play on a course like Bro Balsta, Sunningdale or even Lone Wolf, my scores are right in line with what I'm seeing on the real course. When I first got the simulator, I was shooting around 100. Last year, generally in the mid 80s. This week I shot a 79 for the first time on it...now I'm looking to break 80 on the real course. Hopefully soon...

I feel that even my short game has improved on the simulator, again just due to practicing a good, confident chipping stroke, and a good steady putting stroke. I do find that sometimes it's very difficult to hit a 30+ foot putt close on the simulator when breaks are involved, as that is such a feel thing in real life. So, I now play with the simulator set for auto complete putting after 1 attempt (so there are no three putts). Last time I played at Wooden Sticks though, I didn't have a 3-putt so it's not that unrealistic.

[pingB]

totally agree with you rdh. I go to the range and I'm lost because I don't have the feedback I get from the simulator. Makes it very difficult for me to fix problems with my swings. When I've got my swing pretty consistent the range is OK to practice aim and working the ball but I still like the simulator more because 90% the time it's 20+ mph winds at the range and I can't work the ball or do anything but work on my punch shots.

I also really like playing actual rounds because I tend to have better practice when I switch clubs and shots frequently. Versus just raking and swinging. I probably play my rounds a little differently than some though. I have unlimited mulligans and when I get to a shot that I feel needs practice I'll take mulligans and replay the shot multiple times. I'll do like 10' gimmies and work my short irons with mulligans until I get it within 10' of the hole.

Still don't have my GGS dialed in perfectly. Waiting on the cameras to get here and then I'll be a lot better off with this sort of practice. To me though it's how I enjoy practicing this way and it's really not possible on the range. I can't swing my driver, 7 iron, walk to the chipping green and pitch or chip then walk back and repeat.

[rdh]

Good comments pingB. I don't play rounds on the simulator too often (but they're a lot of fun!) but tend to do one of two things for practice:

1. If I'm REALLY focused on just getting solid swing path/angle and club/ball speeds, then I'll go to the driving range and hit shots.

2. More often, I use practice mode and find a good par 4 to drop a ball in the fairway 120 yards out and then hit a bunch of wedges, then move to 140 out and hit a bunch of 8 irons, etc. up to my driver. I love the option of practicing actual shots on a hole (similar to what you do with the mulligans) as it's just not possible to drop 50 balls in real life and tie up the golf course while you work on a shot. It makes practice more fun too seeing the actual outcome of your shots in terms of distance to the hole.

[bubba22]

I think the general concept is that having the sim at home is convenient for practice and gives good feedback.I personally prefer hitting on the range and practicing the short game on the practice green but time is a factor. I have neve been a big fan of fake grass at the range and prefer real grass but that is not an option for sims. I love my sim especially with the launch angle and feel it has kept my game sharp for sure.

[Vicoz2009]

I have had the optishot for a week and practiced regularly at night. Beforehand I have avoided practicing the late release at the driving range because it usually ends up wrong and no one to tell me why but with this unit I can try it out at home, follow drills online etc and get the right club path onto the ball. Last night I went to the range for the first time (post simulator) and boy did it make a difference. I've never heard my driver sound so loud at impact. I dont think i like my old swing now.

Here is why I think it is working for me:
1) confidence: it has been said before, and I'll agree to that. I know where to focus my attention for the right swing path. I know how I should align myself, I know how it should feel and I know the outcome most of the time.
2) impact improvement: I didn't know majority of the time my impact was at slight toe, now they are centre. Path is more slight in to out.
3) clubhead speed: I can say for sure that my clubhead speed has improved due to the right feel and proper technique (back to basics). If I didn't have feedback I would have kept heading in the wrong direction. I can't elaborate on this swing thought but simpler is better is all i can say.
4) unlimited balls: sort of...sleep gets in the way. This equates to more practice than at the driving range once a week where Im doing something wrong anyway (alignment was inconsistent).
5) im a high handicapper: I average mid 90s to 100. I suspect it won't go down too soon as I am still finding my swing but I will find it sooner I think.

Oh, and I took my optishot to the driving range and hit off that. I would say a good majority (80% - ish) of the time it was right, I am still tweaking my club offsets. The most helpful feedback was the swing path, not so much as the ball flight as yet. It worked well for the irons and hybrid, not for my driver for some reason however, I suspect that the bright flourescent lighting had something to do with it and that the path is further (higher) away from the sensors.

[bubba22]

Agree with all points. As already mentioned, I think the simulators will probably improve things more for the high handicappers. Having said that even low handicappers can get some benefit from these sims.

[northgolf]

Agree with all points. As already mentioned, I think the simulators will probably improve things more for the high handicappers. Having said that even low handicappers can get some benefit from these sims.

Given you can trust the output of the device, I would agree with you. I don't trust the output from my P3ProSwing. I use the same swing on it as I do at the range, and on the range I hit straight shots with a bit of a draw - the P3ProSwing tells me I am outside in (~1 degree) with the clubface open (anywhere from 3 to 5 degrees) and the shot is a fade/slice. I am a 5.2 HCPI, and my swing is repeatable. The P3P has to be getting either or both the clubface and the club path wrong. I just don't trust the output of the P3P.

I am considering the GC2 this fall, but only after I find someplace where I can test it.

[netcam]

Given you can trust the output of the device, I would agree with you. I don't trust the output from my P3ProSwing. I use the same swing on it as I do at the range, and on the range I hit straight shots with a bit of a draw - the P3ProSwing tells me I am outside in (~1 degree) with the clubface open (anywhere from 3 to 5 degrees) and the shot is a fade/slice. I am a 5.2 HCPI, and my swing is repeatable. The P3P has to be getting either or both the clubface and the club path wrong. I just don't trust the output of the P3P.

I am considering the GC2 this fall, but only after I find someplace where I can test it.

I had a P3P and had the same feelings, I just got a original Vector and absolutely love it! I think the ball flight is extremely accurate to what I do on the course/range and love being able to hit off a mat / tee / whatever rather then the sensor. My only complaint is I wish it had a way to do course simulation but for now until I can spring for a GC2 (My dream sim) the Vector will keep me going.

[northgolf]

I had a P3P and had the same feelings, I just got a original Vector and absolutely love it! I think the ball flight is extremely accurate to what I do on the course/range and love being able to hit off a mat / tee / whatever rather then the sensor. My only complaint is I wish it had a way to do course simulation but for now until I can spring for a GC2 (My dream sim) the Vector will keep me going.

Thanks netcam, I'm glad it's not only me.

[rdh]

On the game improvement topic, a question for you guys (since I trust the feedback here so much!)...

Thanks to the practice afforded by my simulator, and a few lessons this spring, I am now striking the ball better than I ever did when I was younger and an 8 handicap. I'm playing to a 10-11 handicap now, but only because of great ball striking...my short game is very weak - particularly putting. Yesterday I was 82 with 38 putts...ugh.

So...I need to work on putting. Have any of you struggled with poor putting and worked to a point where you now consider yourself very good? If so, what approaches or drills did you use to get there? Was it simply a matter of investing a ton of time on the practice green, or were there any key things you did that helped and you would recommend?

I think the simulator can be useful in working on a solid stroke to assess whether the ball is moving perfectly on the intended line (0 degrees left/right) but beyond that I know the simulator is pretty limited here.

[northgolf]

On the game improvement topic, a question for you guys (since I trust the feedback here so much!)...

Thanks to the practice afforded by my simulator, and a few lessons this spring, I am now striking the ball better than I ever did when I was younger and an 8 handicap. I'm playing to a 10-11 handicap now, but only because of great ball striking...my short game is very weak - particularly putting. Yesterday I was 82 with 38 putts...ugh.

So...I need to work on putting. Have any of you struggled with poor putting and worked to a point where you now consider yourself very good? If so, what approaches or drills did you use to get there? Was it simply a matter of investing a ton of time on the practice green, or were there any key things you did that helped and you would recommend?

I think the simulator can be useful in working on a solid stroke to assess whether the ball is moving perfectly on the intended line (0 degrees left/right) but beyond that I know the simulator is pretty limited here.

The weakness for me was short putts. I spent a month working with a Pelz truth board and that cured the short putt issues (nothing like sinking 30 three foot putts into a 1/2 size hole with you eyes closed to build your short putt confidence). Unfortunately, I don't think he makes the truth board anymore.

[pingB]

rdh the stroke is maybe 1/3rd the battle with putting. The real trick is reading the green and most importantly hitting it the correct distance. The 1 major thing that helped me that you can try today w/out changing anything about your putting stroke is to stare down the hole right before you take your swing. I'm talking look at the hole and look down at the ball maybe 3 -4 times.. Get the image of the hole in your head right before you pull the trigger. I rarely have trouble with distance.

If you read pelz putting bible he talks about it a lot putting is a very subconscious game. On green reading he also discusses in detail how everyone leaves their puts short. You are probably reading the break properly but you are not reading the right place to put the ball so that it breaks on the right path. He said basically find the point where you think it breaks and triple that distance from the hole to aim at.

At first you'll put them high but the point is to really read the true breaking point.


Simulator just flat isn't going to help with green reading and being able to "feel" the distances. You might start just walking your putts off so that you can know your distance when playing then just practice various strokes for various distances on the sim.

[rdh]

Good suggestions pingB - thanks. I've been reading the greens fairly well, but like you said, distance is my issue. I have definitely been leaving most putts short...some significantly short. I suspect I may be decelerating through the ball due to apprehension/lack of confidence, but I'll try some of the things you've suggested. I also picked up a 2-ball putter that is heavier than my Ping Answer...I'm hoping that helps a bit too.

[Vicoz2009]

My putting actually improved by using my DD (in practice mode within the green). I didn't know I always hit with the face closed until my dd, now I know what my shoulder swing feels like to result in a straight clubface - definately made me more confident on the greens and I hit a few long 6+ foot putts at my last game.

[Vicoz2009]

Good news, I played a windy round on Sunday to score 83 - my lowest ever. Previously I averaged mid to high 90s, from drive to putt I seem to have improved overall.

I've had my DD for less than a Month and practiced regularly on it. Do I attribute my success to the sim? My answer is yes. It allowed me to practice more regularly than the driving range, assess and work with the immediate feedback, get down to basics, and have fun at the same time.

I know my score is going to fluctuate as I tune my swing, but it's getting there. Have fun all.