The Sens are a Mess

[nokids]

Is it safe to say Sens won't be relevant for another 5 years?

[Mattchew]

Is it safe to say Sens won't be relevant for another 5 years?

With the amount of cap space next year and a group of young talent that management feels ready next year the sens should be on track in a couple years. Murray said 1 year but realisticly with the freeagent list not very strong this year I would say a couple.

[leftylucas]

They need a goalie and a proven goal scorer or 2, a couple of defensemen and hope that the young guys coming up can fill the void then they might be a playoff team next year. I think the only Dman they should keep are Karlsson, Carkner, maybe Phillips. They are stuck with Kuba and Gonchar but they may get traded. That leaves one spot for a new guy. I think that Fisher and the rest of the guys may get a rude awakening come the trade deadline.

[Mattchew]

They need a goalie and a proven goal scorer or 2, a couple of defensemen and hope that the young guys coming up can fill the void then they might be a playoff team next year. I think the only Dman they should keep are Karlsson, Carkner, maybe Phillips. They are stuck with Kuba and Gonchar but they may get traded. That leaves one spot for a new guy. I think that Fisher and the rest of the guys may get a rude awakening come the trade deadline.

Ya realisticly Cowen and Rundblad should make the D maybe Wiercioch and Gryba get a look but will have to stand out. Forwards- Butler, Silfverberg, Greening, Cowick and Condra all should get a look at filling a couple spots.

Should take a serious run at Bryzgalov and have Lehner as back up.

[leftylucas]

They will over pay for their goalie, they are desperate and cannot afford not to get someone proven in the net. The only solution I see is trading for one, Fisher and another young player (Foligno, Reigan) may have to go to get one.

[nokids]

7-5

Red WIngs goalies scare me. Offense is fine.

[leftylucas]

Clouston has to go, Lehner plays well in front of horrible defense that let the Wings take 2-3 shots before scoring. He let in 4 goals but for Clouston to say he pulled him because he wanted to change the momentum was stupid. I am sure he heard from Murray as well, a time out would have served that purpose. Now Lehner is shown that the coach has zero confidence in him and he will be sent down to add to the mix, great move Clouston, the crowd really showed their displeasure as well. Phillips played poorly letting Franzen in all alone on the first goal, then giving the puck away on another. Kuba did the same, Campoli had a good game on the offensive side then looks like the crappy defensemen that he is. Boy, the new GM has a lot of work to do for sure.

[Shivas Irons]

Clouston has to go, Lehner plays well in front of horrible defense that let the Wings take 2-3 shots before scoring. He let in 4 goals but for Clouston to say he pulled him because he wanted to change the momentum was stupid.

I gotta agree with this. I used to be a Clouston fan but it seems more evident with each game that he's lost his mojo here.

I was at the game last night, and the fans were none too happy about Lehner begin pulled, in fact, there were quite a few 'boos' eminating when he got yanked.

To make matters worse, Elliot then gets beaten short-side almost immediately. To me, it actually felt like the Sens lost some momentum when they made the goalie switch.

[leftylucas]

For sure, I think Elliot is not NHL material, he has poor rebound control despite working on it for the last 2 years and he is very weak, especially over his left shoulder when he is in the butterfly. He lets in a weak goal/game, not good.The more I see this team the more coaching seems to be a problem, short handed chances for the other team every power play, putting your worst defensive line out after having a goal scored against you...

The more you analyse the weaknesses of the team the more it looks like blowing it up is a really good idea. I would make absolutely any player available to trade (except Alfie of course, Praise Alfie!) This team is missing grit, badly. The entire defense core can go as far as I am concerned but for Carkner and Carlson. Leclair is but a quitter and I hope he does not find work with another team, trade him for a roll of tape.

[HoganWoods]

We have a few good pieces but overall I agree, time for a firesale. Problem is our GM isn't too good at getting value in return, lets hope he doesn't give away all our players.

[brucestats]

the main problem last nite ( among many) is that Clouston should have never started a young rookie goalie on back to back nites. Look at the habs for the right way to do things. Price starts in Washington, plays solid, yet Martin goes with Auld the next nite. It just makes sense to rotate goalies on back to back nites in different cities.

But the season was lost several weeks ago, so does it really matter at this point.

[Kiwi]

First, I am a fan of the Sens being a home-town boy (man... ok senior). I don't follow them with the passion expressed in this thread/Forum, but I long for the days when the "red mile" on Elgin St. was alive and thriving in the early...make that the late Spring.

Can't say I know enough to pin-point their problems, but I firmly believe that Mr. Melnyk is fed up with paying for things he does not own (i.e. Emery et al) and will let the string run out on Murray and Clousten. Sens fans deserve better than this, but after all it is a business. Then as soon as he is free of them he'll appoint a new GM who will be tasked with finding a coach and then start the rebuilding process. Gone are Kovalev, Gonchar, Leclair, Phillips and others. Probably take us a good 3-4 years to become competitive but that's what happens when you don't see the signs and react in a timely manner... IMHO.

[3Jack]

In my eyes that was a mercy pull of Lehner last night. What would it have done for his development to leave him in there and have to put up with the horrid play of Kuba and Phillips against a team like Detroit? It certainly wouldn't have helped, that's for sure. Clouston doesn't look to be a great communicator or a terribly positive guy, but that pull last night was more about protecting a prospect than anything else. Kuba and Phillips should be ashamed of their play this year -- and they probably are.

[Tullamore]

This team totally needs character players - this was never and never will be a tight team - need a big change - When i saw Ray Emery fight Buffalo's tough guy Peters (a few years ago) and no one came to his rescue made me shake my head- u have Chris big mouth Neil not do anything? - that was hockey 101 - no one goes after your goalie espically another player who happens to be a tough guy
Then Spezza the next day says - Ray is a tough guy we knew he could hold his own - Then u have Alfie dance me around the question guy - Ray is a strong guy - another lame answer to the question - What a joke! the whole team made me say - who are these guys!
- Hey listen i love the way the game is played now - but the game still needs that old time hockey - and that was the time - there should of been at least one Sen (or the whole bench) to back up Ray!
Get a goalie! - in all the years the Sens been around never had a true #1 goalie - 2nd get a true NHL coach - like John Torterlella in New York - that guy should be coach of the year - no nonsense - all business - major injuries to key players but the team is tight bought into his way playing - even Sean Avery (a little)
#3 bring up the youth and try to flip the older guys - the time has passed - Neil, Fisher, Phillips,Gonchar(a joke signing) even Alfi -who definitly lost his step(too bad he's staying) - need the youth - Spezza is a keeper only because he puts points on the board
#4 a young GM - the game has passed Murray
- i'm not even a Sens fan!
Go Hawks!!

[3Jack]

This team totally needs character players - this was never and never will be a tight team - need a big change - When i saw Ray Emery fight Buffalo's tough guy Peters (a few years ago) and no one came to his rescue made me shake my head- u have Chris big mouth Neil not do anything? - that was hockey 101 - no one goes after your goalie espically another player who happens to be a tough guy
Then Spezza the next day says - Ray is a tough guy we knew he could hold his own - Then u have Alfie dance me around the question guy - Ray is a strong guy - another lame answer to the question - What a joke! the whole team made me say - who are these guys!
- Hey listen i love the way the game is played now - but the game still needs that old time hockey - and that was the time - there should of been at least one Sen (or the whole bench) to back up Ray!
Get a goalie! - in all the years the Sens been around never had a true #1 goalie - 2nd get a true NHL coach - like John Torterlella in New York - that guy should be coach of the year - no nonsense - all business - major injuries to key players but the team is tight bought into his way playing - even Sean Avery (a little)
#3 bring up the youth and try to flip the older guys - the time has passed - Neil, Fisher, Phillips,Gonchar(a joke signing) even Alfi -who definitly lost his step(too bad he's staying) - need the youth - Spezza is a keeper only because he puts points on the board
#4 a young GM - the game has passed Murray
- i'm not even a Sens fan!
Go Hawks!!

You're not a Sens fan, but you sure do seem to have a lot to say about 'em. Nice try with the Alfie troll.

[Colby]

the main problem last nite ( among many) is that Clouston should have never started a young rookie goalie on back to back nites. Look at the habs for the right way to do things. Price starts in Washington, plays solid, yet Martin goes with Auld the next nite. It just makes sense to rotate goalies on back to back nites in different cities.

But the season was lost several weeks ago, so does it really matter at this point.

I totally agree with this. Lehner should never had started. It would have been better for him to comein in relief. Also, as bad as he is, Elliot was probably already in a bad frame of mind when he found out that Lehner was starting instead of him, then has to come in unexpectedly. With Lehner getting back-to-back starts, Elliot knows his days are numbered.

I still wonder if Murray made the call...

[3Jack]

I totally agree with this. Lehner should never had started. It would have been better for him to comein in relief. Also, as bad as he is, Elliot was probably already in a bad frame of mind when he found out that Lehner was starting instead of him, then has to come in unexpectedly. With Lehner getting back-to-back starts, Elliot knows his days are numbered.

I still wonder if Murray made the call...

But, in Elliot you have a goalie that had not won in his last 11 decisions. We know what we've got in Elliot, which clearly isn't much, so if you look at it from the perspective of who gives you the best chance of winning that night, it wasn't Elliot.

[Colby]

But, in Elliot you have a goalie that had not won in his last 11 decisions. We know what we've got in Elliot, which clearly isn't much, so if you look at it from the perspective of who gives you the best chance of winning that night, it wasn't Elliot.

I agree with that, however given who they were playing and the chance of winning, I wouldn't have sacrificed the future. And who knows, Elliot may have pulled off something as he has in the past...

[3Jack]

I agree with that, however given who they were playing and the chance of winning, I wouldn't have sacrificed the future. And who knows, Elliot may have pulled off something as he has in the past...

Lehner seems to be the kind of guy who can handle a bit of adversity, so I don't think the future has been sacrificed.

The Senators are damned if they do, damned if they don't at this stage. Play Lehner too much and people will say he's being rushed. Play him too little and people will say we're tanking the season.

[Tullamore]

You're not a Sens fan, but you sure do seem to have a lot to say about 'em. Nice try with the Alfie troll.

yo 3Jack - i've been a Sens season ticket holder since day one - i've ben a Hawk Fan since i could walk - on the Sunday's the Hawks play i'm there in the Windy City and having played the game for so many years and working around the game - i can say the Sens are a mess. - Just don;t tell me that Alfie is the messiah for this team! - he should have been traded after their cup run.- He's good PR man for the Sens - that is a good position for him that he should take after the season.

[sensfan63]

yo 3Jack - i've been a Sens season ticket holder since day one - i've ben a Hawk Fan since i could walk - on the Sunday's the Hawks play i'm there in the Windy City and having played the game for so many years and working around the game - i can say the Sens are a mess. - Just don;t tell me that Alfie is the messiah for this team! - he should have been traded after their cup run.- He's good PR man for the Sens - that is a good position for him that he should take after the season.

Yeah Alfie was great with Spezza and Heatley as linemates, but on his own he's not a superstar. He's just a nice player. There are plenty of those in the league. Luckily Alfie's contract is fairly reasonable.

[3Jack]

yo 3Jack - i've been a Sens season ticket holder since day one - i've ben a Hawk Fan since i could walk - on the Sunday's the Hawks play i'm there in the Windy City and having played the game for so many years and working around the game - i can say the Sens are a mess. - Just don;t tell me that Alfie is the messiah for this team! - he should have been traded after their cup run.- He's good PR man for the Sens - that is a good position for him that he should take after the season.

Fair enough. Without this context however, you can see how one could get the impression I received.

[brucestats]

Lehner made some nice saves last night..but its pretty obvious he is still a bit immature. His cheap shot belongs in another league

[3Jack]

Lehner made some nice saves last night..but its pretty obvious he is still a bit immature. His cheap shot belongs in another league

If he didn't stand up for himself some would say he's not competitive enough. Lehner did what this team has been roundly criticized for not doing for years. We can't have it both ways. I'd much rather see him stand up to someone who is jawing at him than slink away in shame.

[Kiwi]

Althought a "fan" I don't watch either the Sens or hockey in general. I get most of my insight from the TSN/Sports Net highlights. With all the talk lately about the Sens I watched parts of the second and third period last night (Sens/TO). I remember now why I stopped watching. Toronto clearly outplayed the Sens and only the new goalie kept them in the game. The Sens looked like the 67's, on a bad day. No passing, and certainly their power play was non-existent. Phillips got deeked out of his jock strap and looked like Jr. B at best. Sure you can put it down to new players trying to impress but they looked nothing like a team out there. I think that Kovlev's pathetic shoot out attempt summed up the whole team attitude... ho hum. Hope Anderson doesn't catch what they have or it will be a loooong time until we see the light again.

[Andy4Par]

Why do I now feel that the Sens are going to go on a streak. Play themselves out of the lottery draft and still miss the playoffs. I love what I am seeing right now. Anderson seems solid. Butler is outscoring everyone. Youth breeds confidence. But can't they wait until September. Lol

[jonf]

i don't think we have to worry to much about them going on a roll. We'll be losing at least a couple more roster players before the deadline, and Butler won't keep up this streak. Definitely some promising signs for he future, but I'm not to worried about a Leafs style, late season surge.

[Colby]

It's really good to see Butler start to emerge. Coming from the NCAA is never easy (the change in the number of games played, tempo, etc) and I think he was overwhelmed for a while. Spending the time in Bingo helped him get his professional legs. I think that he will be a good player for the Sens in the long term.

I'm not too worried about a resurgance either. Even if the Sens played .500 hockey and 6 teams immediatley above them played .000 hockey they would still be in 23rd with 61 points, 1 point ahead of Atlanta and 2 points above Toronto and Colorado. (Although with Elliot's goaltending last night Colorado may go .000 for the rest of the season)

Of the teams ahead of the Sens (and are 60 points or less), NJ is 9-0-1 in their last ten, NYI are 7-3-0 and Toronto is 6-2-2 (just in time to give the Leafs Fans hope). Atlanta, Colorado and Florida all have losing records (Colorado is worst at 1-8-1)

So unless the Sens get red hot and play well above .500 hockey for the last 22 games, i think the lottery pick is safe.

[leftylucas]

Kovalev is now with Pittsburgh so more money and room for a new player, Butler is likely in no matter what.