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Thread: golf lesson - still undecided
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02-03-2005 12:22 PM #1
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golf lesson - still undecided
Anybody here taken golf lessons? if so when did you decide to? I don't know if i should take lessons. I've be playing on and off for 3 months now, learn everything on my own by watching. I can swing pretty well practically will all of my irons, i got a lot of great comments from people that i have a natural golf swing. I vastly improved on my chipping and putting where it killed my scores. My weakness at this point is my woods. I rarely put any times working on them cause i was playing on a par 3 course. Now i'm ready to move up to par 4 where i need to learn how to use my woods. so should i learn how to use the woods on my own or take some lessons? But if i decide to take lessons where would they start me off? would they take a look at my swing and go from there?
In my bag:
TM 200 irons (r) got the lie angle adjusted to 2 degrees
Odyssey white steel #1 putter 34 inches
Titlesit 975F & Adams tight lies woods (r)
Callaway BB Warbird driver. (r)
Those are my equipments need to uprade my woods and driver and would like to have it fitted, I'm only 5'6 with shoes
Oops my bad post it in the wrong forum
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02-03-2005 01:38 PM #2
If somebody says that you do not need lessons, smile....
I normally take lessons during the winter or before the start of the season. It improves my game every time... and more it makes it more enjoyable.
There are a couple of indoor facilities like Kevin Haine, Ottawa Athletic Club, Académie de Golfe de l'Ile in Hull that will run a diagnostic and build you a practice program. Try it.[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=2][FONT=Palatino Linotype]If you bury my ashes on a golf course, just make sure that they are out of bounds, that will be a natural continuation to my life[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
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02-03-2005 01:55 PM #3
Who are are these people telling you how good your swing is? Are they qualified to make that call? Do they even understand the mechanics and technique involved in the proper swing? Local guys that you play with is the last place anyone should go for advice since you can read the same book and watch acedemy live just as they did! Go to a pro and get some lessons. You just started so this is the time to do everything right from the start. I too taught myself to play. Got myself down to a 10 handicap which isn't to bad. Thought I had a great swing, people use to tell me how smooth of a swing I had and good it looked. Long story short, I went to a golf school this winter and they had a different thought on my great swing. I have changed everything and my swing is now less complicated, more compact and easier to repeat. I am also getting the best ball contact ever! Now this did not happen after one lesson and I still go to lesson 3-4 times a week and everytime I get the last lessons point, they give me something else. The golf swing cannot be made with quick fixes like on TV where they have pros shooting awful shots as if they were amatuers and then eurika a perfect swing after only 15 minutes! Get lessons, more then one and stick with what they tell you. It will feel awful at first and then everything will click.
Denny
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02-03-2005 02:09 PM #4
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Originally Posted by dbleber
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02-03-2005 03:44 PM #5beatnik58Guest
I'm a self taught short hitter. I played 5 rounds a year for 20 years, never broke 100, and then got the golf bug last year big time. Got myself down to a 13 handicap and wanted to go to the next level.
Went and took a lesson. The video analysis showed me that my swing was pretty bad. And this after all my buddies were telling me how well I was doing etc.. The video camera does not lie! Reverse pivot, left arm breaking, hip sway, backswing way too long, hitting behind the ball, scooping. You name it.
I'm back to square one and looking forward to building a good swing from the basics. This involves signing up for a series of 4 lessons at T to Green and getting in lots of practice.
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02-03-2005 04:53 PM #6
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Originally Posted by beatnik58
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02-03-2005 08:12 PM #7AndruGuestOriginally Posted by gambit
Lessons have there place like anything else. It's all in the individual. There's a pile of good players who have taught themsleves and some have used the guidance of a coach. Find your game. Don't take lessons indoors that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. How do you know where your ball is flying? Because you look good on Camera? Bah. All the advice in this forum is straight off the golf channel. You can literally go to the site and cut and paste it.
What do Retief Goosen, Bruce Lietske, John Daly, Jonathan Kaye, Chris Dimarco, Hale Irwin. Craig Stadler, Allan Doyle, Moe Norman, VJ Singh ,Todd Hamilton, Bobby Jones and the best of them all Ben Hogan have in common, besides tour wins, they all have self taught swings. Unlike Ottawa there's more than one road that leads from here to there. Take the road YOU think will get you there and keep you there. Not what these people think. Especially people who have never played with you or seen you hit a golf ball.
To steal some words from moe norman. "If it's not your swing, it's borrowed".
If you are going to take lessons do it in the spring outside. You can imporve your grip and setup from a book. It takes no talent to hold the club and set up. Then go to a pro and work on improving your action.
Enjoy the game
Cheers
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02-03-2005 10:10 PM #8
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While I agree with Andru to some extent, I've gone down both roads. Self-taught is great if your Retief Goosen, Bruce Lietske, John Daly, Jonathan Kaye, Chris Dimarco, Hale Irwin. Craig Stadler, Allan Doyle, Moe Norman, VJ Singh ,Todd Hamilton, or Bobby Jones.
The list he leaves out are the thousands who couldn't do anything after being self-taught. Sure, there are success stories, but I'll bet the ratio is 1000 to 1.
Here's my philosophy on anything: learning something can't be bad. If its not for you, don't go back for another lesson, but it sure can't HURT. The problem, as I see it, is if you EXPECT one lesson to get you shooting in the 80s.
Like anything worthwhile or complex, golf is a life of learning. It takes hours of work to improve your game.
I ruined my game by self-taught, and the few lessons I took did a world of good, maybe not incredible, but it sure helped me understand my swing a bit more. As Andru points out, thats what was good for ME.
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02-03-2005 11:30 PM #9
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<---I'm from the US .....where i will get to play all season long . You guys are right about getting lessons. I know that will be the best investment to improving my golf game. Now i need to find a good instructor. The place where i practice offer lessons. They are professionl golf insturctor. They charges half hour lesson for $40 $50 w/video. Series of 4 lessons for $160 , series of 7 $250, series of 10 $300 and all for half hour lesson. I think i migh try out the series 4 and see where i wiill go from there. Also today i ran into a guy who is always at the range teaching students but he is Korean guy who i barely talked to but i'm afraid his englsh isn't any good. It is very important where i can communicate with my instructor. His price look affordable. He charges $6 hour lessons for $200, $40 for hr lesson. Group of 2 $150 six hour lesson and $30 for hr lesson. His flyer said that he is a cerfied teaching professional. So i dont know who i should chose. I guess i will get to know him a little better before i make my decision. Btw, my swng is deadly the most consistant i ever swung
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02-04-2005 12:28 AM #10
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Originally Posted by gambit
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02-04-2005 01:52 AM #11AndruGuestOriginally Posted by Golfpeasant
Golf is not a complicated or complex game. People make it complicated.
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02-04-2005 08:23 AM #12beatnik58Guest
It's like anything else in life. Some folks have innate ability and don't need a lot of help. Others do.
Some can go a long way with a self taught approach. others can''t.
I'm a self taught musician and can play fairly well. Golf is a different story!
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02-04-2005 08:55 AM #13AndruGuest
Well said.
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02-04-2005 09:42 AM #14Originally Posted by Andru
You love Tiger Woods, he has been taking lessons his whole life and even now still works with a pro. Jim Furyk with his funky swing still gets help from a pro. The big difference in your long list and the average golfer is that the pros still have the fundamentals right. And Jim Furyk did not just get these fundamentals from a book his father and a huge part in his development and he went to pros when he was a kid. They tried to change is loopy swing but he took the fundamentals and mechanics then used is own way to get to slot but the main fundamentals are still there. Every pro interview you see has them telling the average Joe to see a pro early and learn the proper foundation for the swing.
The bottom line is a self taught swing will only get you so far and just because you have a quirk in your swing that is not the norm does not mean you should not see a pro. A good pro will see that your quirk is one that still gets the job done and work within your swing or more than likely you will be right out to lunch and will have to change. Gambit go try the 4 lesson package, listen to the instructions and you will have the proper foundation to implement your own swing.
Denny
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02-04-2005 11:05 AM #15AndruGuestOriginally Posted by dbleber
The hypocritical part of all this is the pros didn't take lessons from day one. If you really want to learn like the pros follow their lead.
1) As a child most if not all got a club in their hands and WITHOUT guidance. developed fine motor skills and hand eye coordination just hitting balls.
2) Then maybe as they got older they were introduced to a coach to help refine those swings. they were good golfers BEFORE they were coached.
Even Tiger woods starting out hitting putts as a child. He could hit the ball BEFORE he saw a coach.
You love Tiger Woods, he has been taking lessons his whole life and even now still works with a pro. Jim Furyk with his funky swing still gets help from a pro. The big difference in your long list and the average golfer is that the pros still have the fundamentals right. And Jim Furyk did not just get these fundamentals from a book his father and a huge part in his development and he went to pros when he was a kid. They tried to change is loopy swing but he took the fundamentals and mechanics then used is own way to get to slot but the main fundamentals are still there. Every pro interview you see has them telling the average Joe to see a pro early and learn the proper foundation for the swing.
Jim Furyk has had one coach, his father. There's nothing "fundamental" about Furyk's swing. From has two finger overlap grip to his crowding the golf ball at setup to his aiming 20 degrees right of target and to the extremely open positon at impact. So no he doesn't have any of your so called "fundamentals". What are the fundamental anyway. The only fundamental in golf is this.
1) Your hands should be ahead of the ball at impact.
2) The Club face should be square at separation
3) I didn't actually believe this one but I'm starting to. You should approach the ball from the inside.
The bottom line is a self taught swing will only get you so far
and just because you have a quirk in your swing that is not the norm does not mean you should not see a pro.
Gambit your at the crossroads here. Do what's best for you. If you want to take lessons go for it. If you're not showing improvement in a week. Stop before you ruin the good work you've probably already done. I haven't seen you hit a ball so my advice is general as it SHOULD be.
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02-04-2005 11:31 AM #16
As usaully Andru you ramble on and miss the point. These people you mention are in a very small percentage of golfers. These pros that you seem to know so well, may have picked up a club early but then went for lessons from someone be it their father or a pro.
Lessons are not the only way to go for eveybody, I don't remember saying that. But for the majority of golfers lessons will help because we do not have that natural talent that will take us on tour. If you have taught yourself and cannot get yourself to the next step then go see someone. If you are a good golfer or like having a slice and don't care then don't, read another book.
If you watch any of the pro ams or even lessons from the pros, they will always say that when you first start and for the average amateur that seeing a pro is the way to go. Jim Furyk was one of these guys and also admits that no one should try and play golf like him! Having you own swing is important but for the average Joe that swing sucks. Sure there are lists of tour pros that have made their swing work but what are the odds that Gambit or anybody else on here is that calibre and has that much natural ability?
Mario Lemieux use to eat poutine before games and never work out. Now he is a hell of hockey player but that's a small percentage where natural talent makes up for everything else.
Denny
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02-04-2005 11:41 AM #17
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I just went to see the instructor this morning and i asked him if i need any lessons and he said let see how well you hit the balls and how well my acuracy by aiming to the flag, so i hit about 50 balls with all my irons except for woods and he was amazed how well i did and he said i don't need any lessons that i have this tiger wood giving talent.
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02-04-2005 11:48 AM #18AndruGuestOriginally Posted by dbleber
Go to a pro and get some lessons.Gambit go try the 4 lesson package, listen to the instructions and you will have the proper foundation to implement your own swing.
Lessons are not the only way to go for eveybody, I don't remember saying that.
But for the majority of golfers lessons will help because we do not have that natural talent that will take us on tour.
If you watch any of the pro ams or even lessons from the pros, they will always say that when you first start and for the average amateur that seeing a pro is the way to go.
Jim Furyk was one of these guys and also admits that no one should try and play golf like him! Having you own swing is important but for the average Joe that swing sucks. Sure there are lists of tour pros that have made their swing work but what are the odds that Gambit or anybody else on here is that calibre and has that much natural ability?
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02-04-2005 12:46 PM #19Originally Posted by gambit
It would be wise to find a new instructor and get lessons on using the woods. Just a thought....
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02-04-2005 12:51 PM #20
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Originally Posted by em69
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02-04-2005 01:34 PM #21Originally Posted by Andru
:groupwave
You are obviously a very special boy and by the sound of things you are the perfect golfer who will never need help because you have that much natural talent. I guess I must have missed you on TV at the FBR Open or Maybe you love Tiger so much that you have started to believe that you are Tiger yourself. Anyway I have wasted enough energy on this stupid conversation. Cut and paste what you want.
Gambit hope you find a good instructor and if it doesn't work try some books or the AJ truth about golf series is supposed to be fairly good.
Denny
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02-04-2005 01:42 PM #22
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My two cents.
In my view, you can play Golf just by yourself, but
you couldn't see your swing flaw just by yourself.
No matter what some of the Pros claim they improve
their golf swing just by themselves. They just don't give
the credit enough to those people who helped their swing before.
Everybody knows it if you want to learn something by
youself, you must have enough knowledge first. Otherwise,
how do you know what you learn is on the right track?
Anyway, it's not a bad idea to learn golf from CPGA.
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02-04-2005 02:17 PM #23AndruGuestOriginally Posted by dbleber
If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.
- Elbert Hubbard
But that for most lessons are the extra step that people need and that a lot of golfers find it hard to get what they need from books, videos or gadgets.
Originally Posted by dbleber
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02-04-2005 02:17 PM #24
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Originally Posted by dbleber
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02-05-2005 10:47 AM #25Originally Posted by dbleber
I have learned a lot from videos and books, this is my style of learning. But I must recognize that I have learned more from trial and errors... and most important, human feedback. If you wish to learn by yourself, do it with a friend that can honestly tell you if you are achieving what you say you are trying to do. If that friend is an instructor, best for you, he (she) will stay away from quick fixes and tips. But the bottom line is that unless you practice with a specific goal in mind each time you are on the range, you will only continue to hit balls fast, hard and ... poorly.[COLOR=Sienna][SIZE=2][FONT=Palatino Linotype]If you bury my ashes on a golf course, just make sure that they are out of bounds, that will be a natural continuation to my life[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
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02-05-2005 06:39 PM #26
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Take Lessons. I played my first year last season and was able to play into the mid 80 range without lessons. This winter I decided to join the OAC golf school and had my first video session ever. All I can say is that seeing yourself on tape and then getting instruction on what needs to be fixed has worked out out extremely well for me.
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02-06-2005 01:35 AM #27
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Originally Posted by Andru
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02-06-2005 01:38 AM #28
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Originally Posted by AndruLast edited by Golfpeasant; 02-07-2005 at 09:13 AM.
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02-06-2005 06:07 AM #29
Enough bickering. This thread is an example of how a bit of friendly difference of opinion can mushroom into insults and attacks. While it is not quite out of hand yet, it is getting very close.
I do not want to close it, so please folks, no insults.
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02-06-2005 08:36 AM #30beatnik58Guest
Quote from Andru:
"1) Your hands should be ahead of the ball at impact.
2) The Club face should be square at separation
3) I didn't actually believe this one but I'm starting to. You should approach the ball from the inside."
Question for Andru:
If I can't do 1) and 3) after a few years of trying (even though I play to a 13 handicap which I thought I'd be happy with coming from the 30s!), what would you recommend? Keep slogging it out? Or get some instruction?
Since I have some bad habits that I can't correct on my own, I am taking lessons.
Over and out.
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