Custom doubts

[ace]

I'm in the market for new irons and am trying to decide between custom irons or off the shelf ones. I have to admit that despite what i read on this forum I'm still leaning towards a higher end set from taylor made or mizuno.

I got fitted a few years back from a local clubmaker and I was turned off by how much their fitting relies strictly on my feel. They emphasised the importance of shaft frequencies and consistent swingweights yet when we tested these using a variety of clubs i rely couldn't tell the difference among many of them after we rejected the most obvious bad matches. Although my swing is consistent which helps the accuracy of this type of testing the typical amateur's swing is not. This coupled with limited feel makes this fitting process seem a little dubious. I'm not going to argue the importance of these aspects in a clubs design but this type of fitting process strikes me as unreliable. Besides, is a $1000 pair of clubs off the shelf really going to be that inconsistent in this respect?

Another consideration is price and by my account custom clubs cost well over $1000 when it is all said and done, so no advantage there.

That leaves me with shaft length, lie angle and feel to help me make the decision. In this respect i would say that 70-80% of the body types out there could be happy with the clubmaker's standard, including myself. Some impact tape and a few demos at the range to confirm and the decision seems straigthforward to me.

But I'd love to hear from others and maybe an expert or two since I'm really not into this techno stuff that much.

[Chieflongtee]

I could go on and on about OEM and components but really the only clubs that will really all feel the same are clubs that MOI matched. I am sure BC Mist will also reply to this thread but if you have the time and inclination please read on. MOI will never be used by OEM's because it takes way too much time to build and therefore could not be mass produced.
http://www.wishongolf.com/moi/

[jvincent]

Custom fitted clubs are THE way to go.

Let's address the price factor first. An equivalent set of off the shelf top line irons will cost as much or more than pretty much any custom set, assuming you go for the same type of shaft / clubhead material. I.e. comparing forged clubs with graphite shafts to cast heads with steel is not valid.

There is so much more than just length and lie angle.

As someone who builds his own I can attest to the fact that you can get VERY different results from different shafts. Not just consistent hits and distance, but shot trajectory as well.

Are off the shelf the OEM clubs good enough for most people? You bet.

Will you get clubs better suited to your game by being custom fitted? Also true.

[Andru]

First of all and shame on you guys for allowing this myth to continue.

OEM does not mean off the shelf. Almost all of the "big name" manufacturers do custom fitting and it doesn't cost anymore. Go to Golf town and get fitted for a set of pings. The marshes has callaway, cobra and titleist fitting carts. I believe The Canadian has a titliest fitting cart, Chateau Cartier has a ping fitting cart. Call some places and schedule a fitting. Then there's no problem. You get the clubs you want and you're fitted.

Cheers

[jvincent]

True, but the nature of the fitting is much less than what you can get from a custom maker.

Last time I checked, you could get different lie angles pretty easily but I'm not sure about lengths.

I've never seen a big name offer different swingweights either. They also usually only offer a couple of different shaft options.

[nice_lag]

True, but the nature of the fitting is much less than what you can get from a custom maker.

Last time I checked, you could get different lie angles pretty easily but I'm not sure about lengths.

I've never seen a big name offer different swingweights either. They also usually only offer a couple of different shaft options.

I won't get involved with the difference between components and OTS products nor will I get involved in the MOI vs swingweight debate because it has been discussed as nauseam in other threads and I'm not an expert in the matter. I must say though that you can get your clubs fully customized through static and dynamic fittings. When I ordered my Ping irons, I chose the lie angle (many available), loft angle (chose a stronger loft), shaft length (from 1.5" shorter to 1.5" longer), grip size, shaft flex and type/brand and swingweight. I could even get the bounce adjusted to my liking. To me, those are MANY options. So, pick your budget, go out and happy hunting...

[laxgolf]

I bought a custom fit set of Mizuno's at Golftown this past summer and it didn't cost me more than the sticker price. All OEM's now provide the custom option. Since I bought the forged MP30's, the adjustments were done on site. Cast clubs have to be ordered to the specific fit or the warranty is voided. The pro doing my fitting was a certified Ping fitter. He took my specs from the Ping fitting and appied them to my Mizuno's. All I needed was to bump the lie up 1.5 degrees. Just remember that if you have a forged set of irons custom fit (adjusted), you'll have to have your specs chacked and likely adjusted once or twice in the next year. You should have them checked anually anyways.

[Andru]

True, but the nature of the fitting is much less than what you can get from a custom maker.

Last time I checked, you could get different lie angles pretty easily but I'm not sure about lengths.

I've never seen a big name offer different swingweights either. They also usually only offer a couple of different shaft options.

If you don't know, you shouldn't say. I'm not commenting on custom components because I really don't know. I believe they're a viable alternative to OEM if your clubfitter is competent.

Swing Weight Specifications. Yes
Length: Yes.
Lie Angles: Yes
Grip size: Yes
Combining Components for a mixed set: IE: blade short irons and cavity Long Irons: Yes
Overall club weight: Yes.

I'm not sure with other manufacturers but with Ping you can even specify certain grinds for the clubs including the bounce.


Cheers

[jvincent]

If you don't know, you shouldn't say. I'm not commenting on custom components because I really don't know. I believe they're a viable alternative to OEM if your clubfitter is competent.

Swing Weight Specifications. Yes
Length: Yes.
Lie Angles: Yes
Grip size: Yes
Combining Components for a mixed set: IE: blade short irons and cavity Long Irons: Yes
Overall club weight: Yes.

I'm not sure with other manufacturers but with Ping you can even specify certain grinds for the clubs including the bounce.


Cheers

Not trying to be snippy, but I did preface my comments with "last time I checked" which was a while ago.

Ping arguably offers the most options of all the clubmakers since they have had custom lies for a long time.

It's a question of degrees of freedom. I can buy a Cleveland launcher in one of 3 shaft models, varying flex, maybe even length.

I can go to my custom clubmaker and get ANY shaft I want, in ANY flex, at ANY length (almost), and even vary the trimming instructions if I want.

That's not an option offered by the big names. Golftown (or other retailers) may offer some of these services for the brands they sell but all that has done is transform them into custom fitters who are retrofitting big name heads.

[Chieflongtee]

Well put Jvincent. He can also spine shafts. He can also do flat zone frequency. He can frequency build on a different slope than standard. He can profile the shafts. he can flo the shafts. He can tell you if there is a large delta differential between the NBP and the spine. He can build oversize and undersize grips He can build to different lengths etc etc.

Not trying to be snippy, but I did preface my comments with "last time I checked" which was a while ago.

Ping arguably offers the most options of all the clubmakers since they have had custom lies for a long time.

It's a question of degrees of freedom. I can buy a Cleveland launcher in one of 3 shaft models, varying flex, maybe even length.

I can go to my custom clubmaker and get ANY shaft I want, in ANY flex, at ANY length (almost), and even vary the trimming instructions if I want.

That's not an option offered by the big names. Golftown (or other retailers) may offer some of these services for the brands they sell but all that has done is transform them into custom fitters who are retrofitting big name heads.

[Andru]

I'm not trying to be jerky either.

But quite honestly I hate when it turns into a pissing contest as this thread has. I don't claim to be an expert. Frankly I don't care. I play pretty well with my pings and I don't know if they're spined or not.

A simple question was asked. It sounds like ace wants to buy OEM. I let ace know (contrary to what was posted) that custom fiitting is available when purchasing OEM gear. And the Custom fitting options include more than lie angles. So if ace really likes those mizunos, pings, titleist, callaways, taylor mades, KZG's or Matby's. rest assured ace can get the club that will allow him/her to play great golf.

So with that. I will leave feeling comfortable that ace has the information he/she needs to make a decision.

Good Night.

[Chieflongtee]

Andru. Either way it is not the holy grail most people would like to believe. Clubs are only a small part of the equation. You know the rest of the story. Talent, hard work,lessons and the list goes on. No body can be fitted between the ears and unfortunately some people are more blessed than others :cryin
Sweet dreams.

[BC MIST]

I could go on and on about OEM and components but really the only clubs that will really all feel the same are clubs that MOI matched. I am sure BC Mist will also reply to this thread but if you have the time and inclination please read on. MOI will never be used by OEM's because it takes way too much time to build and therefore could not be mass produced.

I did write and post a lengthy response, however, it has mysteriously disappeared.

Rather than "argue" the point, why not just list the "custom fitting" features that Golftown provides, and then do the same for what a good clubfitter does. What the best choice is then becomes painfully obvious.

Or, just re-read Andre's posts and ask, "Does Golftown to this?"

Ironically, a friend of mine who "fits" golfers for clubs at Golftown, had me fit him for clubs. Wishon forged 550C's, spined Rifle shafts, frequency matched, MOI matched,....The fact that he is having one of his best seasons ever, must be pure,(or is it PURE?) co-incidence.

[Andru]

I did write and post a lengthy response, however, it has mysteriously disappeared.

Rather than "argue" the point, why not just list the "custom fitting" features that Golftown provides, and then do the same for what a good clubfitter does. What the best choice is then becomes painfully obvious.

Or, just re-read Andre's posts and ask, "Does Golftown to this?"

Ironically, a friend of mine who "fits" golfers for clubs at Golftown, had me fit him for clubs. Wishon forged 550C's, spined Rifle shafts, frequency matched, MOI matched,....The fact that he is having one of his best seasons ever, must be pure,(or is it PURE?) co-incidence.

It must be because I having my best season as well.

[Kilroy]

I did write and post a lengthy response, however, it has mysteriously disappeared.

There was no moderation in this thread, and no deleted post in the the archive. Hard to say what may have happened there.

[ace]

Thanks to all for the great feedback. I'll be making a more informed decision on my next set.

As Andru said, I am leaning towards OEMs and I guess still am after reading all of this. If you care to know why read on...

1) I'm always sceptical of the true advantages of technological "advances" and especially custom equipment not because of my golf experience but indirectly through other sports where I have more confidence in making judgements regarding the value of the equipment and its impact on performance. And i think, in part, this can be transferable to golf equipment. Sports equipment can offer many features but we'd probably all agree that few actually translate into improved performance. Cycling is an excellent example where for decades techies talked about how critical custom made bikes were for serious riders. Today, most serious racers understand that bikes can be tweaked to fit most any rider with very slight disadvantages over owning a true custom made bike.

2) some of the custom fitting features can be done for OEMs

3) I'd probably have a hell of time trying to resell custom clubs if i wasn't satisfied or if my swing changed in a year or two

4) I'm a decent golfer (mid to low) but I'm not a machine. I'm certainly more of a mechanical player than one who realies on feel. I'd imagine that the inconsistencies in my swing would dwarf any technical inconsistencies in a set of $1000 OEM clubs (assuming I get some features custom fitted such as shaft length, lie angle etc).


Thanks again and wish me luck.

[Andru]

Good luck and enjoy the journey

[Chieflongtee]

Good luck Ace and I sicerely hope you get an ace one day no matter which clubs you choose