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05-20-2004 12:05 AM #1
Course Management/Game Management
I am curious. I've noticed a lot of people in here who love to give advice on gameplay, technique, zen etc...
I'm the typical 21 handicapper who likes to blast balls off the tee, but lacks the ability to do a good job of it regularly.
I've been told in the past that playing an iron 150 yards forward and into the fairway is better than hitting a driver 250 yards into the rough. I've been "coached" by players of similar calibre on the finer points of course management.
My question is of a fairly complex nature:
"When selecting a club, what are the first three keys to judge by?"
Is it always going to be a comfort thing? Will I be deciding this based on my "average stroke"? Where does the indication of poor technique happen? Should my 7-iron be a no brainer on a 145 yard par 3? Maybe someone can enlighten me on where the "random" elements of golf stop making decisions for me...
Thanks.
Dan[URL=http://www.sportsfiend.ca/]Sportsfiend.ca - Make You Opinion Into News...
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05-20-2004 12:10 AM #2
Only thing I can think of right now is "Grip It, Rip it, and Sip it". Works for me!
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05-20-2004 12:21 AM #3Originally Posted by The Shtick[URL=http://www.sportsfiend.ca/]Sportsfiend.ca - Make You Opinion Into News...
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05-20-2004 12:45 AM #4AndruGuestOriginally Posted by broken27
I'll give you a great example. I played the marshes today by myself SO I played two balls. The 14th on the marshes. par 5 short 501. I have two balls in the fairway. one is 230 to the pin the other 239. So I lay up the 239 ball to 101 and I take a crack at the green with the 230 ball miss right made bogey.
To the ball I layed up. As I'm looking at the green I notice two things everything left or short of the pin funnels towards the hole. So instead of aiming at the flag, I aimed anywhere left. It hits the rough and rolls to 4 feet. No kidding I played the rest of the round and I didn't think about anything except the golf course and where I wanted to land the ball. I didn't always execute, but I wasn't caught off guard when I hit a poor shot either. My misses weren't that bad.
I learned two things today. 1) Take a look at a par three from both sides of the tee deck 2) Don't try to hit a draw when the ball is below your feet. ( splash on number 2 !)
Cheers
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05-20-2004 02:28 AM #5
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Originally Posted by broken27
1) Why drive a 300 yard hole...sure, if you want to get there in ONE, and that is your ULTIMATE goal, go for it, have some fun, but if you want to score low, there is no benefit to driving a short hole. If its a 450 yard par 4, I think the driver is necessary.
2) How narrow is that landing area and how deep is the rough around it? Again, if you aren't hitting the driver accurately (which WAS my case today), why bother...take out a 3/5 wood or 3 iron, whichever does it for you. The rough in my game today was penalizing, and every time I was in it, forget about reaching the green in 2.
3) Did you just piddle it 50 yards forward into some rough stuff? Decide the only way you can score low is to try the 3 wood out of it? Don't bother. People try ridiculous recovery shots after piddling it. Hit a solid 5 iron to 130 yards, then do a nice approach. Its next to IMPOSSIBLE to hit a wood out of deep rough. Besides, its amazing how well you can do after a bad shot if you make 2 solid ones after.
4) Percentages. Like poker, the best way to make a choice is to be honest about your chances. If you are over the ball thinking "Im not sure if this is the right club", then its the WRONG club. If you've got a driver in your hand, and you haven't been hitting it well, save it for another day.
5) What is your goal? To have fun, or score low. If its fun, use the driver.
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05-20-2004 10:43 AM #6Originally Posted by broken27
1) Plan ahead - don't just look at the shot you're facing now, but look ahead to the shots after that. Especially important on par 5s, short par 4s and when putting.
2) Minimize your mistakes - AKA take what the course gives you. Play the club that puts in the wide part of the fairway or away from hazards, etc. See where the trouble is around the green and choose clubs accordingly. Pitch out to the fairway if you go into the trees. Low scores are not the result of great shots - they happen when you make good misses.
3) Play to YOUR strengths - select a club based on your average distance with it, not your best distance. If your shots have a low trajectory, don't try shots over trees - if your shots have a high trajectory, always play a lay up into the wind. Use the clubs you hit the best whenever you have the opportunity.
Here are a couple of examples of what I feel are "course management" holes:
Metcalfe #11 (soon to be Metcalfe #2) - par 5 with trees that narrow the fairway at 200 to 250 yards out and a ditch further down the fairway. Why play driver if you can't reach in 2? Tee off with an iron, go through the chute of trees with a iron to be in front of the ditch or a wood to clear it. There's water in back of the green, so if you're between clubs, play short. That's planning ahead, and minimizing your mistakes.
Emerald Links West #4 - narrow, reachable par 4 with OB left, lateral water hazard right and bunkers from 150 to 200 yards directly in front of the tee. The widest landing area is actually just in front of the green. The key is to play to YOUR strengths. If you're a good irons player but not accurate with woods, hit an iron and then a wedge. If like me you're better with fairway goods, go for the front of the green but make sure you miss right instead of left.[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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05-20-2004 12:40 PM #7
I'm definitely in the camp of playing two different games, one for "fun", AKA driver all the time, and one when I play a course management game, AKA hit to very specific distances on certain holes.
Not surprisingly, I usually score better when I play course managment golf.
Since I'm not playing in any tournaments at the moment and there generally isn't money riding on my game, I usually choose the "fun" game.
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05-20-2004 12:52 PM #8Big_duckGuestOriginally Posted by jvincent
Helps keep the hdcp index up too!!
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05-20-2004 02:18 PM #9
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My index is just under 11. One good thought I expressed from a PGA Tour player a few years ago: "Don't make 2 mistakes in a row". In other words, if you hit it in the junk don't try a miracle shot (e.g. 250 yards out of deep rough, from a hanging lie, over water, to small green) to make up for it. Just lay it up to a good safe spot and ensure you limit the damage and hope to wedge it close and make a put to save your score. I also like the thoughts expressed earlier which seem to follow the general theme of play the hole by starting at the green and work backward - where is the pin on the green? so where in the fairway do I want to be to give me the best shot at the green? now what club to hit and does that bring trouble into play off the tee. I've gone from hitting 12 drivers a round to an average of 9 or less.
I must admit though, I can't resist that 250 yd shot over water to the small green - it feels good the 20% of the time it works!
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05-20-2004 02:28 PM #10Originally Posted by powerlefty
All this "Smart Golf" talk has me considering playing smart this weekend. I'll see what my mood is like.
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05-20-2004 03:12 PM #11AndruGuestOriginally Posted by jvincent
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05-20-2004 03:24 PM #12
I always say SMART golf is FUN golf. If you hit driver on every hole and it costs you a double or triple, the end result is, NOT having fun.
I few years back I was playing at Virginia State U (no I was not a student, my brother in law went to school there) and I hade trouble driving the ball straight. In the club house there was a used Callaway war bird 3 wood for 80$. I tried it out and man, that club changed my game. I could not hit the ball off line. That club gave me confidence like you could not believe. Needles to say that I purchased the club.
I learned that summer that the driver is not necessary to score low. Put the ball in plays where it needs to be to have the best possible second shot. You must have a go-too-club in your bag to give you confidence. A club that you have no hesitation when hitting. If that’s a 5, 6 or 7 iron well that’s what you must hit.
I played a tournament last year. Three clubs, three balls from the red tees. Very interesting. It makes you think on the course when you have a 3 iron, 9 iron, a putter and a 65yard shot!Strive for perfection, but never expect it!
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05-20-2004 03:25 PM #13Originally Posted by powerlefty
You know something that I'll never learn. When I play, I pound the crap outta my driver and expect the worst. Mind you, I'm the best at scrambling in the world, just ask me! (Kevin Haime talk..). To tell you the truth though, I hate playing boring golf (ie. safe shots all the time). Sure, I want the ball to always be in the fairway off the tee but I guess that I'm not confident in myself to make that a reality. Therefore, I take pride in my scrambling skills.
There are many ways to play golf. There is no "right" way or "wrong" way. It's all a matter of choices and decisions. If you decide to never take lessons and base your game on pure instinct (like I do), you are making a huge gamble. Sometimes it pays off. If you drink your milk and take your vitamins (ie. lessons, etc.) you have a better chance of improving your game course management wise. That's what teachers are for.
As for me, I'll sit back and enjoy my 9.1 index and keep on gambling!
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05-20-2004 03:26 PM #14Originally Posted by Andru
For me, there's nothing like pulling off those two dead carries over water back to back. FWIW, still no eagles on that hole for me. A few 3-putt pars and some birdies, but no eagles........ Yet.
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05-20-2004 03:45 PM #15Originally Posted by The Shtick
Mont Cascades #7 - definately you should tee off with a driver. Catch the hill in the right spot, and you can easily be in position to reach the green in 2. Worth the risk.
Mont Cascades #16 - even if you bomb it, the green is waaaay uphill with a tree blocking the right side. Very unlikely you can go for the green in 2 - 99% of the time you are laying up to the same spot below the green in front of the creek. So what's the reward for teeing off with a driver - laying up with a 9-iron instead of 6-iron? Big deal![COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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05-20-2004 03:54 PM #16Originally Posted by el tigre
My point is that I play "stupid" golf. Maybe I, as a person, am "stupid" then. But then again, I am a good scrambler, and I have the handicap to proove it.
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05-20-2004 03:56 PM #17Originally Posted by el tigre
I've seen many players play cascades and the majority who hit long balls would have an easier time with no. 16 (uphill / over water and flat lie) rather than no 7 (downhill / sidehill and over trees)
I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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05-20-2004 03:57 PM #18AndruGuestOriginally Posted by jvincent
I don't get it. The landing area is sooo large. Unless there's a strong wind blowing in. I go for it everytime. There's no layup on that hole.!!!!! Now that's fun.
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05-20-2004 04:07 PM #19Originally Posted by Andru
Only time I touch the fairway is when I go to and from the pennisulaI've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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05-20-2004 04:23 PM #20Originally Posted by Andru
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05-20-2004 04:40 PM #21AndruGuestOriginally Posted by Steve Karam
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05-20-2004 05:04 PM #22Originally Posted by Steve Karam
As for 7, hitting over trees has never been a problem for me. If I'm short I lay up, but if I catch the hill on the left side and have a decent lie, I'm probably in range.[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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05-20-2004 05:25 PM #23Originally Posted by el tigre
On 7 its more gamble as the trees covering the front left side of the green and the trees to the left are a pain. so Lay up there is smarter.I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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05-20-2004 07:39 PM #24Originally Posted by AndruWhen applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
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05-20-2004 07:58 PM #25AndruGuestOriginally Posted by LobWedge
Also EC keeps they're greens so soft the ball will hold if it's in the air. Hey everyone's game is different. It was mentioned that some players with enough length were bailing on the short cut. If you have the length. It's a worth while risk. That's all I'm saying.
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