The PGA Championship

[3Jack]

Competition is good for golf. Heck, it's good for any sport.

I'll bet the ratings dropped dramatically on the back 9 when Tiger had it in the bag. I know I turned it off after about the 11th hole.

I'm not sure how Tiger dominating is good for golf. It just means the results, especially in the majors become a lot more predictable. That in itself is not good for golf.

However, some day you may regret not watching history in the making. Guys like Tiger don't come around very often, and you're choosing to miss it!

[jbrace]

If you're a true golfer and you can't appreciate how talented this guy is? Then I'd say you're actually a sports fan and you like the competition. You're not really a 'Golf Fan'.

That's bullsh1t. You can be "true golfer" and appreciate Tiger for what he is, yet at the same time not necessarily enjoy watching him completely dominate the game. They do not go hand in hand. To insinuate that a person is not a real golf fan just because he/she does not want to see Tiger every single time is also presumptuous and arrogant.

The ratings are like this because fans want to see something out of the ordinary. If Tiger is in contention every tourney and wins every other day but also loses tournament that he should have won, that’s not greatness and fans will not tune in to watch.

You are contradicting yourself here. Think about it. The fans want to see something out of the ordinary. Everyone watched Tiger win the 97 Masters because it was out of the ordinary (at the time, young phenom, coming out party, etc.) and 2000 US Open because he completely stomped the field. If this becomes the norm as opposed to the exception as in Scenario 1, I honestly don't think it would be better.

But whatever. That's my theory, you guys have yours.

[jbrace]

You want to talk about golf fanatic:

I’m a member at a private course.
I live beside the course (The main reason I purchased my home).
I practice every day (chip, putt, short and long game).
I have a golf simulator at home in my garage.
I practice and play golf all winter long.
I’m a GolfDigest subscriber.
I have the golf channel on every day.
I go to pgatour.com every day to see what’s new.
And I only watch PGA tourneys that Tiger plays.
I will turn the channel if he is not in contention.

When did this become an argument over who's a golf fan and who's not? Do you feel as if someone is questioning your love for the game?

[mberube]

When did this become an argument over who's a golf fan and who's not? Do you feel as if someone is questioning your love for the game?

Because of this post

Agreed, there's no doubt that if Tiger is in the field/lead the ratings will increase. This is because the casual, and non-golf fan will watch. They want to see Tiger, just like they want to see Michelle Wie.
However, those of us who watch pretty much every PGA tournament see enough of Tiger and understand there is no correlation between drawing a large audience and having an exciting finish. You want an increase in ratings just insert Tiger, or Michelle Wie, or the ambulance that Michelle is riding in.
The increase in ratings is not from hard core golf fans watching, it's from everyone else who normally would not watch tuning in

[mberube]

You are contradicting yourself here. Think about it. The fans want to see something out of the ordinary. Everyone watched Tiger win the 97 Masters because it was out of the ordinary (at the time, young phenom, coming out party, etc.) and 2000 US Open because he completely stomped the field. If this becomes the norm as opposed to the exception as in Scenario 1, I honestly don't think it would be better.

But whatever. That's my theory, you guys have yours.

I don’t see where I contradict myself.

He wins by blowing out the field = lots of fans watching.

He wins some time like during his “slump”= ratings are down.

[Shivas Irons]

That's very presumptious and arrogant. .

No, it's not, but your response to my post is.

I hardly watch a tournament when Tiger's not in the field. If I'm going to invest 3 hours on Sunday afternoon I want to see the best in the game and you can hardly call me fly by night..

...so this means you do not watch the LPGA, the Champions tour, the Nationwide tour, the Euro tour etc. and you would rather watch Tiger scratch his crotch and eat banana than watch Mike Weir knock one stiff.

People watch Tiger because he's the best. .

Can't argue with that.

Now Comparing Tiger Woods and Michelle Wie is really obnoxious.

No, it isn't, but your response is. We are talking about TV ratings here. Wie increases those by 50% when she's in the field, so there's an obvious comparison.
Andru, I was merely pointing out that, from my perspective on the couch this was not an exciting tournament. If I was there I'm sure I would feel differently. I'm not saying I don't enjoy Tigers shot making, but there's no need to say I'm presumtuous, arrogant, and obnoxious because I thought the tournament was boring.

[jbrace]

Because of this post

Still not seeing it. If I understand him correctly, he's not saying that just because you are one of the millions watching Tiger in these situations, then you are obviously nothing more than just a "casual fan". He's just saying that more casual fans tune it and increase the ratings. I don't see a challenge to your love of the game here...

[mberube]

Still not seeing it. If I understand him correctly, he's not saying that just because you are one of the millions watching Tiger in these situations, then you are obviously nothing more than just a "casual fan". He's just saying that more casual fans tune it and increase the ratings. I don't see a challenge to your love of the game here...

This is because the casual, and non-golf fan will watch. I watch Tiger only. Where do I fit in this category? Casual or non-golf fan? Tell my wife that I am a casual golf fan. She will laugh in your face.

They want to see Tiger, just like they want to see Michelle Wie. Wie does not interest me but that is another discussion.

The increase in ratings is not from hard core golf fans watching, it's from everyone else who normally would not watch tuning in. So I’m not a hard-core golf fan because I don’t watch LPGA, Nationwide, Champions tour and PGA tour tourneys that Tiger does not play.

[Shivas Irons]

Because of this post

In a vain attempt to clarify; if someone who does not normally watch golf (or sports for that matter) is channel surfing and comes across a channel that the PGA is on there is a much greater chance of them leaving it on that channel if he/she see a face they recognize. e.g. Tiger Woods.
Thus they attract extra viewers that would not normally watch, but this does not necessarily make the tournament more exciting.
This is not about "who is the greatest fan of all" - nobody cares.

[jbrace]

This is because the casual, and non-golf fan will watch. I watch Tiger only. Where do I fit in this category? Casual or non-golf fan?

Um, I don't think he's saying that you fit in either. He's simply saying that along with hardcore golf fans (of which you are obviously part of), there are more people from the other categories watching. Correct, Shivas?

[jeffc]

this discussion has evolved into nothing more that 2 sides beating their heads against the wall. I am done with that. I will say:

I do appreciate Tiger's talent. I have no doubts he is/will be the best golfer ever.
I do watch him and am in awe of what he can do with a golf ball.
I appreciate when he annihalates (sp?) the field.
I would rather it be a tight race to the finish, a playoff, etc. To me that makes for better golf (or insert any other sport here). I much prefer the feeling of watching Mike Weir trying to win the masters in 03 than Tiger winning by 5 shots. The Mike Weir scenario or any other playoff/tight race will keep me glued to my set. The other scenario I can watch on sportscenter.

[jbrace]

Wow. Took the words right out of my mouth, jeffc. I too am done with this argument.

[Kilroy]

Ah the Tiger debate. It always ends like this. Not the first time on this forum. Best to just agree to disagree methinks.

[Shivas Irons]

Um, I don't think he's saying that you fit in either. He's simply saying that along with hardcore golf fans (of which you are obviously part of), there are more people from the other categories watching. Correct, Shivas?

Exactly.

I would rather it be a tight race to the finish, a playoff, etc. To me that makes for better golf (or insert any other sport here). I much prefer the feeling of watching Mike Weir trying to win the masters in 03 than Tiger winning by 5 shots. The Mike Weir scenario or any other playoff/tight race will keep me glued to my set. The other scenario I can watch on sportscenter.

Exactly.

Ah the Tiger debate. It always ends like this. Not the first time on this forum. Best to just agree to disagree methinks.

Exactly.

[LobWedge]

Will, skill, strengh, adaptability, and confidence. When Tiger's on his game, as he is right now, he excels in all of these categories. He's virtually unstoppable. Other players may excel in a few of these categories at once, but not all of them. The only other player IMO that came close was the man he's chasing, Jack Nicklaus.

Where Tiger's really ahead of everyone else is adaptability. If he play's a course where a particular shot is required, or where driver is not preferred, like Hoylake, he makes the appropriate adjustments and forges ahead. He makes changes more easily than any other player I've ever seen. I remember a tournament a couple of years ago when he couldn't hit the proverbial "broad side of the barn" with his driver, so he relied on the 2-iron stinger to get him through the rest of the tournament until he could make the appropriate fix. Other guys will keep leaning on the driver and continue to get into trouble.

Sunday was like watching the movie Unbreakable. You see the horrible train wreck happening all around him and Tiger walks away without a scratch.

I'm not a "fan" of Tiger, but as jeffc said, I appreciate the level of skill and execution. It's fun to watch, and I guess that we should consider ourselves somewhat lucky to be witness to it firsthand, like those who saw Gretzky, Aaron, Ruth, or Jordan were.

[Golfbum]

First off, I am not a huge fan of Tiger. I respect his talent and ability to dominate golf tournaments. But I am not a fan. If this offends you so be it.

Second, I turned the TV off on Sunday afternoon around 4:15 PM and went outside and cleaned the grips on my clubs. Why? Simple, I do not enjoy watching the Tiger Woods Show. I much prefer to watch tournaments that are close, with 2 or 3 guys duking it out coming down to the 72nd hole.

For me watching Woods win by 5 shots or whatever is like watching a hockey game and one team is blowing the other out. BORING.

I am a Golf Fan. I do not need Woods in an event in order for me to watch it. I was watching golf long before Tiger came along. I watch the LPGA, Nationwide, Canadian Tour, Champions and the European Tour as well. I don't see Woods playing in those events! Ok, the odd Euro event if he gets his pockets lined with enough cash to interest him in flying over there.

Sorry, I do not need him in an event in order for me to watch it on tv.

[Big Johnny69]

First off, I am not a huge fan of Tiger. I respect his talent and ability to dominate golf tournaments. But I am not a fan. If this offends you so be it.

Second, I turned the TV off on Sunday afternoon around 4:15 PM and went outside and cleaned the grips on my clubs. Why? Simple, I do not enjoy watching the Tiger Woods Show. I much prefer to watch tournaments that are close, with 2 or 3 guys duking it out coming down to the 72nd hole.

For me watching Woods win by 5 shots or whatever is like watching a hockey game and one team is blowing the other out. BORING.

I am a Golf Fan. I do not need Woods in an event in order for me to watch it. I was watching golf long before Tiger came along. I watch the LPGA, Nationwide, Canadian Tour, Champions and the European Tour as well. I don't see Woods playing in those events! Ok, the odd Euro event if he gets his pockets lined with enough cash to interest him in flying over there.

Sorry, I do not need him in an event in order for me to watch it on tv.

I am a Tiger fan and do enjoy watching him play. I like watching history in the making.

But like GB says, I am a golf fan and don't need him in the event to watch it. I too watch all the Tours when they are aired on tv.

[Andru]

No, it isn't, but your response is. We are talking about TV ratings here. Wie increases those by 50% when she's in the field, so there's an obvious comparison.
Andru, I was merely pointing out that, from my perspective on the couch this was not an exciting tournament. If I was there I'm sure I would feel differently. I'm not saying I don't enjoy Tigers shot making, but there's no need to say I'm presumtuous, arrogant, and obnoxious because I thought the tournament was boring.

Me callign you presumtious and arrogant had absolutely nothing to do with whether you enjoyed the tourney or not. It was this.

It's a matter of people wanting to be part of popular culture and wanting to be part of the conversation at the water cooler the next morning

[Andru]

I'm not sure what the debate is anymore. From what I understand. The tourney would be better if Tiger was more mediocre and the field was able to challenge him and make it interesting.

The facts are the facts in one sense. When Tiger is leading a major the ratings jump, when Tiger is not in contention ( close or not ) they sink. Those can't be debated. I don't care how many of you and your friends turned it off more people left it on.

I use to watch everything. Now I just don't have time anymore if I'm going to watch. I'm going to watch the best. the only exception is the Canadian Open. I've got my ticket. Do you?

Legal Disclaimer: Not a direct challenge or display of golf obsession just an attempt to make nice.

[Andru]

I would rather it be a tight race to the finish, a playoff, etc. To me that makes for better golf (or insert any other sport here). I much prefer the feeling of watching Mike Weir trying to win the masters in 03 than Tiger winning by 5 shots. The Mike Weir scenario or any other playoff/tight race will keep me glued to my set. The other scenario I can watch on sportscenter.

That's the essence of professional sports. The drama and the story. I get that and enjoy it too. It's so funny. The saturday is unreal on the course. All those players making moves. Mike Weir going on a birdie run. It was exciting and the anticipation was agonizing. Sunday was different. The truth is when Mike got it to 15 under. It seemed to get interesting. Then Tiger just dismantled the course. it was peotry in motion. Once Tiger had it wrapped there was a buzz for the second place finish. Weir was in the hunt.

I'm sorry I just don't understand how you guys, real golfers who play this game at a level much lower than Tiger did not want to see the incredible display of golf being shown. It's exciting just watching him hit golf balls on the range. The precision and pure contact time after time. It's what I strive to achieve.

Maybe it's a commentary on what we're trying to achieve in this game and how different it is.

[pheenster]

And I only watch PGA tourneys that Tiger plays.
I will turn the channel if he is not in contention.

Then you're missing a lot of good golf on TV.

One of the main reasons I watch golf is to learn. There is always something to be learned from watching how players handle different situations and different shots.

[jbrace]

I've got my ticket. Do you?

Legal Disclaimer: Not a direct challenge or display of golf obsession just an attempt to make nice.

Good one Andru. And to answer your question - no, I do not. But I did order my weeklong badge for next years President's Cup about 15 seconds after they went on sale and promptly booked one of the two B&B's on the island. I must be a bigger fan than you...JK

[Andru]

Good one Andru. And to answer your question - no, I do not. But I did order my weeklong badge for next years President's Cup about 15 seconds after they went on sale and promptly booked one of the two B&B's on the island. I must be a bigger fan than you...JK

To be honest I'm probably doing my annual trip to the PGA in Oklahoma. I don't think I can get away with two golf trips in one year.

But you'll have fun at the presidents cup. Too bad it's played on such a crappy track. if there's a way to screw it up the RCGA finds it. The players hate and I mean hate Royal Montreal, but I digress.

[SGH]

^^ why is that? I was there for the Canadian Open a few years ago, and thought the course was alright. I agree it's not the best; however, what particulars to the players not enjoy?

[LobWedge]

But you'll have fun at the presidents cup. Too bad it's played on such a crappy track. if there's a way to screw it up the RCGA finds it. The players hate and I mean hate Royal Montreal, but I digress.

Why is it crappy? Is it the fact that it's only in the top 100 courses on the planet? The reason some players don't like it is because they can't figure it out and they need something to whine about, rather than blame their own faults. Boo hoo.

[Andru]

i have no idea. all I can say is the news of the presidents cup being held at Royal Montreal wasn't accepted with glee. They have pretty high standards. After seeing Medinah. I can understand their dissapointment. Listen these guys want to come and play new courses and by new I mean different. They must be sick of the Royal Montreal, Glen Abbey monopoly.

[Shivas Irons]

Why is it crappy? Is it the fact that it's only in the top 100 courses on the planet?

I saw Rees Jones on TV on the weekend and he said he has totally redesigned Royal Mtl. for the Pres. Cup

[Andru]

I saw Rees Jones on TV on the weekend and he said he has totally redesigned Royal Mtl. for the Pres. Cup

Nice. We'll see what the pros think. I'm hoping it's good. it woudl be nice to have a circuit of 5 quality courses to tour the CanOpen. I mean there are some great courses in canada but not every city can sustain the logistics of a PGA tour event.

Montreal sure can. Now if only one of the prime courses in the Toronto area would step up!! Magma anyone.

[fundonny]

I think the Marshes should host the Canadian Open....

[Indio]

I think the Marshes should host the Canadian Open....