Quiz question #1

[Gary Hill]

In stroke play, a player's ball in motion after a stroke strikes the hole-liner that is pulled out with the flagstick. What's the ruling?

[JimmyW]

I remember reading about this one Gary.

Was the liner moving at the time, or is that a pertinant question?

JW

[Gary Hill]

A VERY pertinent question.

[JimmyW]

Does the hole NEED a liner (since the liner is 1/2 inch below grade anyway in the hole)

JW

Trust me, I'll ask stupid questions you've never even THOUGHT of.:p

[Gary Hill]

The hole does not require a hole-liner.

[Gary Hill]

No ideas?

[JimmyW]

I'm a little stumped on this one Gary.

The player making the shot can't be penalized (he didn't do anything besides try to put the ball in the hole).

The person removing the flagstick can't be penalized (how do you penalize a caddy as an example?)

I remember there being a discrepancy (change in ruling) as to whether the obstruction was moving or not.

Shooting blind here Gary:

If the liner was stationary the ball is played as it now lays - no penalty, one stroke taken- it hit an obstruction on it's way into the hole

If moving, ball replaced back as close as can be to it's original placement - no penalty, one stroke again (although I REALLY can't see that being the ruling on the last scenario.)

As I said Gary, shooting blind on this one.

JW

:

[Gary Hill]

Not many takers on this one. :cryin

A hole-liner is an outside agency.

If the stroke was played from the putting green and the hole-liner was moving when the ball struck it, the stroke is cancelled and the ball must be replaced - Rule 19-1b.

If the hole-liner was not moving, the ball must be played as it lies - Rule 19-1.

In case of doubt, the ball must be played as it lies.

[spidey]

an outside agency.. hmmmmm..

Does this mean that it's an outside agency even if it is caused to move by your caddy? I thought it would be 'equipment' if it was in motion because of your caddie.

Is there a distinction between the cup and the hole liner?

spidey

[Gary Hill]

A cup is something you drink coffee out of.
A pin is a safety mechanism on a hand-grenade.
A flag is an emblem for a country.
A trap is a device for sealing escaping gases in a sink.

A hole may or may not have a liner.

[spidey]

I'm not a stickler for terminology when it comes to concepts I've never read about.

Let me see if I can rephrase the question.

I understand that you are trying to say that a hole liner is not an essential part of a hole.

As I think about hole liners, I have two concepts. One of them is the metal insert that the flagstick mounts inside. The second is a plastic liner that is separate from this metal insert, but still lines the hole above it, but below the surface of the green. Does your description of "hole liner" differentiate between these two apparati?

I'm guessing that you are implying that the metal cup that the flagstick is inserted in is NOT a part of the flagstick even if it becomes jammed in, and a person lifts the whole assembly out of the hole in clearing the way for the ball to enter.

spidey

[Gary Hill]

Your two concepts of the hole liner are correct. Usually they are incorporated into one apparatus.

The flagstick is a movable straight indicator, with or without bunting or other material attached, centered in the hole to show its position. It shall be circular in cross-section.

The hole shall be 4¼ inches (108mm) in diameter and at least 4 inches (100mm) deep. If a lining is used, it shall be sunk at least 1 inch (25mm) below the putting green surface unless the nature of the soil makes it impracticable to do so; its outer diameter shall not exceed 4¼ inches (108mm).

If the flagstick is held by a hole liner, the hole liner never becomes a part of the flagstick.

Neither a flagstick nor a hole liner can become part of a player's equipment.

[spidey]

so... if my caddy is tending the flagstick while I'm putting... and he pulls the flagstick out of the hole as my putt approaches...

1- If the ball strikes the flagstick, there is a penalty of 2 strokes or loss of hole.

2- If the ball strikes the hole liner, there is no penalty and the player cancels the stroke and replays from the original position.

spidey

[Gary Hill]

Originally posted by spidey
so... if my caddy is tending the flagstick while I'm putting... and he pulls the flagstick out of the hole as my putt approaches...
1- If the ball strikes the flagstick, there is a penalty of 2 strokes or loss of hole.
2- If the ball strikes the hole liner, there is no penalty and the player cancels the stroke and replays from the original position.

BOTH ANSWERS ARE WRONG!

1. Ball striking attended flagstick:

*****Penalty in Stroke play — Two strokes and the ball shall be played as it lies
*****Penalty in Match play — Loss of hole

2. Ball striking hole-liner.

*****There is no penalty and the ball shall be played as it lies: except

*****If the stroke was played from the putting green and the hole-liner was moving, the stroke shall be cancelled, the ball replaced and the stroke replayed.

The Rules are very specific and great care should be used when making generalities about situations and penalties.

[spidey]

k... so we bombed miserably on Quiz #1.

When do we get a crack at Quiz #2?

spidey

[JimmyW]

What's with this WE stuff buddy??:p

Liner no movee - play as it lies, stroke counted.

Liner movee - replace ball where it was, stroke cancelled.

If I could figure out how the freepin' quotes worked on this board I'd yank 'em down here.



JW :readingbo

[Gary Hill]

Originally posted by JimmyW
Liner movee - replace ball where it was, stroke cancelled.

But only if the stroke was played from the putting green.

Still, you scored 90% and 100% for effort.

spidey didn't even try the question.