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  1. #1
    Nationwide Player 314314 is on a distinguished road
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    local memberships with limit number of rounds, really?

    I have seen a few local club memberships ads that limit the number of rounds that a member can play for next year. Yikes, it feels like having an internet connections with max caps.

  2. #2
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    I assume these are at public clubs.

    Since the membership prices there tend to be a lot lower than at private clubs then they can't afford to have unlimited play.
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  3. #3
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    I wonder when the golf clubs will make up their lost revenue from 2020 and 2021 if they will continue to try and maximise their prices since it's obvious they have gained greatly in daily green fees. I don't mind if they use the cash to keep condiitons at a high level but at one point they need to understand that golf will become a game for the well to do once again and the daily green fee numbers will drop again.
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  4. #4
    Hall of Fame spackler is on a distinguished road spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 314314 View Post
    I have seen a few local club memberships ads that limit the number of rounds that a member can play for next year. Yikes, it feels like having an internet connections with max caps.
    I saw some stuff like this last year in the Toronto area, but haven't seen anything here. Which clubs have you seen here and what are the limits for rounds?

  5. #5
    Amateur Johnyc is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvincent View Post
    I assume these are at public clubs.

    Since the membership prices there tend to be a lot lower than at private clubs then they can't afford to have unlimited play.
    Agreed, but I can tell you the number of rounds at some private courses is becoming a real issue. Bear with me as I try to come to my point;

    The private club membership structure works really, really well when you have an inactive membership. Itís a great thing when people are willing to spend $7,000 - $10,000 annually and play fewer than 10 rounds. Problem is when you have 500 members who are all paying a decent chunk of change and they all want to play. There is only room for so many. First tee off at 7 am. 10 min intervals. Allows for 24 golfers per hour. In June - July you can tee off at 5:00 and get 18 in but that changes in August, September and October. So thatís roughly room for 240 golfers per day, max.. If you move to 8 min tee times you can squeeze a few more golfers through but the point is for many clubs there isnít enough spots for all the members each day. At some bigger private clubs there are upwards of 1,000 members. And what has happened the last two summers is seemingly everyone wants to play. Diving deeper, within many clubs there are membership categories; so although there is no cap on rounds per say, to maximize tee access for those who pay top fee pricing they restrict tee access for other categories (golfing spouse, intermediate, juniors, etc). It is unreal what Covid has done to golf. Much of it good, but there is also a lot of bad. For the private courses itís driving prices through the roof. Our initiation fees have increased twice in the last two years. With more play comes more costs and there is an assessment that will likely be north of $5,000 next summer. Expectations are through the roof and the number of rounds has really strained the agronomy crew. Staffing at these big facilities is an issue. We had days when the clubhouse wasnít opened for breakfast. I do expect that as prices continue to rise it will push people into different discretionary dollar spends but this isnít likely to happen for a couple years yet anyway. Again, as said in other threads the die hard, hardcore golfers who have been around for years this hasnít been great the last couple years. Courses are busier. Itís more expensive and overall there is a strain on the agronomy team which means many projects are delayed/deferred.

    So in a long, round about way, although Iíve not seen this in the private setting I can say that the idea isnít totally off the wall.

    Edit: if you ever want to get some good discussion going ask a private member to comment on tournaments (outside events that close the course for a day)Ö

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    After the first year of Covid we changed the price structure for our intermediate memberships with the goal of getting a bunch of them to leave for exactly the reasons you outline.

    When times were lean and the tee sheet was empty it was OK to have members paying 1/3 the senior rate with full access to the tee sheet. Once covid hit that wasn't optimal or fair to the senior members.
    Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!

  7. #7
    Amateur Johnyc is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvincent View Post
    After the first year of Covid we changed the price structure for our intermediate memberships with the goal of getting a bunch of them to leave for exactly the reasons you outline.

    When times were lean and the tee sheet was empty it was OK to have members paying 1/3 the senior rate with full access to the tee sheet. Once covid hit that wasn't optimal or fair to the senior members.
    Agreed. That category is either going to be eliminated completely or seriously altered. I have buddies at RV and the issues are the same at both clubs.

  8. #8
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnyc View Post
    The private club membership structure works really, really well when you have an inactive membership. It’s a great thing when people are willing to spend $7,000 - $10,000 annually and play fewer than 10 rounds. Problem is when you have 500 members who are all paying a decent chunk of change and they all want to play.
    Yeah, if we only had more extremely rich (but obviously not too smart) members at my club willing to pay $1,000 for a round then things would be so much better for the rest of us who really want to play a lot of golf. Unfortunately I don't think that is a dependable financial model for long-term success at most golf clubs.

    As for the generous prices for intermediate memberships, that was a response to the many years of the decline of golf rounds before COVID, and especially the decline of golf among the 20 -30 age group. Yes you can price them too low, but ultimately it is an investment in the future to turn people into life-long golfers. You can't just focus on the short-term - you have to look at the long-term as well and it is much easier to retain a current member year after year than to try and replace them with a new one. If you make it too expensive too early then you just turn people away from the game.

  9. #9
    3 Wood ladygolfer13 is on a distinguished road ladygolfer13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spackler View Post
    I saw some stuff like this last year in the Toronto area, but haven't seen anything here. Which clubs have you seen here and what are the limits for rounds?
    I know of Canadian and Dragonfly doing this. Dragonfly lost alit of members that moved to Renfrew

  10. #10
    Amateur Johnyc is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
    Yeah, if we only had more extremely rich (but obviously not too smart) members at my club willing to pay $1,000 for a round then things would be so much better for the rest of us who really want to play a lot of golf. Unfortunately I don't think that is a dependable financial model for long-term success at most golf clubs.

    As for the generous prices for intermediate memberships, that was a response to the many years of the decline of golf rounds before COVID, and especially the decline of golf among the 20 -30 age group. Yes you can price them too low, but ultimately it is an investment in the future to turn people into life-long golfers. You can't just focus on the short-term - you have to look at the long-term as well and it is much easier to retain a current member year after year than to try and replace them with a new one. If you make it too expensive too early then you just turn people away from the game.
    These are very intelligent people. $10,000 to me just isnít the same to them. In any event this will be an interesting year - to see how golf transitions on the backside of Covid. And I completely agree with the above - decisions were made 5-10 years ago that made perfect sense at that time. And now we are seeing a much different environment.

  11. #11
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    75 games=$3000 membership

    https://www.gatineaugolf.com/eng/memberships


    Once youíve reached your limit you have 2 options.
    Either you buy another package or pay as you play

    https://www.gatineaugolf.com/eng/rates
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  12. #12
    Moderator Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 BogeyGolf is on a distinguished road BogeyGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieflongtee View Post
    75 games=$3000 membership

    https://www.gatineaugolf.com/eng/memberships


    Once you’ve reached your limit you have 2 options.
    Either you buy another package or pay as you play

    https://www.gatineaugolf.com/eng/rates
    Comes out to $46 a round, and weekday rate is $45 + taxes, so you really don't save much buying a $3000 package, unless you play on weekends...

  13. #13
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogeyGolf View Post
    Comes out to $46 a round, and weekday rate is $45 + taxes, so you really don't save much buying a $3000 package, unless you play on weekends...

    $40 a round I believe if you sign up for 75 games. https://www.gatineaugolf.com/eng/memberships
    No mention of taxes so they could be included or excluded. Point is there are many reasons you might join as a member and one of them is being able to play as much as you want and not be limited to a certain number of rounds.
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  14. #14
    Moderator Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 BogeyGolf is on a distinguished road BogeyGolf's Avatar
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    Andre there is always tax on everything (lol)...my club does the same, but it the price + taxes ($3450.00) divide by 75 games is $46 a round.

  15. #15
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Craigster,
    Weíd have to check to be sure. Kingsway has taxes included
    in their rates
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  16. #16
    Way Beyond Help big mac is on a distinguished road big mac's Avatar
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    I'm thinking ---not sure how to reply to this one. As I said earlier it's going to be an interesting year. Yep Covid sure screwed up more than just golf !!!!!!!!!
    Does the 2nd hole-n-one come easier ?

  17. #17
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    My opinion on this is that this is temporary. When things get back to normal (whatever that means) I cant see courses limiting the number of games if you are a member. Its just a way of the generating more income and hopefully re-invest in the course itself. Time will tell.

  18. #18
    Way Beyond Help big mac is on a distinguished road big mac's Avatar
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    Yes Mark----as long as the extra revenue is put into the course to keep them going: I really don't have a problem with that BUT if all this extra revenue just sort of disappears---that is another story. Almost ever person I have talked to have said there has been a substantial revenue increase that far outweighed extra costs. That is a blanket statement and we as green fee players will never know the
    exact figures anyway. I really don't think the staff were all given a 10 to 15% raise over the last 2 years...………..JMHO
    Does the 2nd hole-n-one come easier ?

  19. #19
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    I think this kind of reaction by certain golf clubs is kind of sad and disrespectful to their members. If I was a member of a club that chose to do this, I would immediately look elsewhere for next year regardless of how many rounds I planned to play.

    Golf was declining prior to COVID. Suddenly it became one of the few sports you could play for the last 2 years, and memberships and green fee players went up considerably. Not all clubs were having problems prior to COVID, but for many this was a lifeline for a struggling industry.

    But it is also true that corporate tournaments and dining room revenue went down considerably, and for some clubs (like Canadian) that was a big issue and they probably still lost money. So I could understand if they wanted to bump up the membership prices a little to try and make up the difference.

    But with this move, what they are doing is punishing their best customers by trying to ding ONLY THEM for more money, while leaving their less-loyal customers alone. So unless the corporate tournaments come back in a big way next year (which I think is unlikely), they will end up being almost totally dependent on green fee players to survive. Good luck with that.

  20. #20
    7 Wood Jasonreg is on a distinguished road
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    So, am I missing something here?

    Price structures are a complicated system to be sure and finding what appeals to the members is, I am certain, quite a difficult feat. That said, I see nothing wrong with a structure which limits the number of rounds played in a year. Notionally (and I guess this is where details matter) one would have an option to pay a full unrestricted membership fee for a higher rate as well. I think what clubs are trying to do is actually appeal to those who may not be able to afford a full unrestricted rate, especially knowing that they can only play on weekends or what-have-you. This should be seen as a good thing for most - or again I ask - what am I missing?

    We have this as an option (for families) at Rideau View - options range from two full playing members, one full playing & one restricted to (I think) 20 rounds, or both restricted to sharing 40 rounds. Once a week players get 20 of 24 possible rounds - for some that is all the time they have.

    You need to play three times a week to max out the aforementioned 75 rounds. I think Gatineau's staggered options from 20 to 75 rounds a year is a great option for most folks. Like someone mentioned above - if you are able to play more often (I am envious), pay as you go, buy another 20 rounds or work a deal directly with the club. Just seems to me that courses are trying to attract more members which may not be able to afford the full rate rather then limit those who can.

    My two cents.

  21. #21
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonreg View Post
    So, am I missing something here?
    Price structures are a complicated system to be sure and finding what appeals to the members is, I am certain, quite a difficult feat. That said, I see nothing wrong with a structure which limits the number of rounds played in a year. Notionally (and I guess this is where details matter) one would have an option to pay a full unrestricted membership fee for a higher rate as well.
    Yes, you are missing something.

    If you go to the websites of two of the clubs mentioned in this thread (Canadian and Dragonfly), you will see that a full, unrestricted membership is not an option. You will see that your options are a full, restricted membership (no green fees, but a limited number of rounds) or a discounted green fee membership (discounted price on green fees, unlimited number of rounds). You do not get a traditional golf membership as an option.

    It's a business and golf clubs are free to choose the business model that works best for them. But clearly these clubs are not interested in attracting avid golfers who play as much golf as they can during the limited season that Ottawa weather affords them. Either that or they are just trying to coerce them into coughing up more money to play their course, but doing it in an underhanded way by disguising the true cost for them of playing a full season there. As an avid golfer, this is a complete non-starter for me.

  22. #22
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post

    But clearly these clubs are not interested in attracting avid golfers who plays as much as they can during the limited season that Ottawa weather affords them.
    No they are not. What you just described is a private club. Clubs that take green fees cannot afford to do that unless they charge the same as a private club.
    Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!

  23. #23
    Amateur Johnyc is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvincent View Post
    No they are not. What you just described is a private club. Clubs that take green fees cannot afford to do that unless they charge the same as a private club.
    Exactly this. People might not like it but I can absolutely see why public courses are moving in this direction. And private clubs offset it by charging initiation fees and if there are expenses beyond what the dues cover there are assessments that come in either the form of a one time payment or can be deferred over a number of years. IE when a new clubhouse is built, or a irrigation, paving of the parking lot, etc.

  24. #24
    Sand Wedge InTheHunt is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
    Yes, you are missing something.

    If you go to the websites of two of the clubs mentioned in this thread (Canadian and Dragonfly), you will see that a full, unrestricted membership is not an option. You will see that your options are a full, restricted membership (no green fees, but a limited number of rounds) or a discounted green fee membership (discounted price on green fees, unlimited number of rounds). You do not get a traditional golf membership as an option.

    It's a business and golf clubs are free to choose the business model that works best for them. But clearly these clubs are not interested in attracting avid golfers who play as much golf as they can during the limited season that Ottawa weather affords them. Either that or they are just trying to coerce them into coughing up more money to play their course, but doing it in an underhanded way by disguising the true cost for them of playing a full season there. As an avid golfer, this is a complete non-starter for me.
    Totally agree . Add Emerald links, Pineview, Casselman to the list that restrict amount of rounds. Meadows decided to almost double their rates instead of capping rounds. I would say this is borderline collusion by the these courses.

    These courses have basically told their long term members who play alot to get lost we don't need you or want you anymore since we think we can make more money with green fees. Classic example of price gouging pure and simple. I will not play at any of the courses mentioned who obviously have contempt for the avid golfer. Long term members generally provide many benefits to courses like bringing guests, spending money on food and merchandise along taking pride in helping to maintain the course and from my experience the green fee player usually does the opposite. Call it what it is your buying a 60 game pack not a membership.I like to go play maybe 9 holes maybe just 5 holes whatever late in the day when not busy, with their option i need to use a round to do it. That sucks. Sure private clubs allow that option but not that many around and most have waiting lists.I feel like these courses have treated their long term members like crap and i hope it comes back to bite them.

  25. #25
    Nationwide Player 314314 is on a distinguished road
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    That is exactly what I thought when first learn about having max caps on number of games for "members". People who buy memberships are not planning on playing 3 times a week. So basically pushing you out for paying per game so say goodbye to your quick nines before or after work.

    Quote Originally Posted by InTheHunt View Post
    Totally agree . Add Emerald links, Pineview, Casselman to the list that restrict amount of rounds. Meadows decided to almost double their rates instead of capping rounds. I would say this is borderline collusion by the these courses.

    These courses have basically told their long term members who play alot to get lost we don't need you or want you anymore since we think we can make more money with green fees. Classic example of price gouging pure and simple. I will not play at any of the courses mentioned who obviously have contempt for the avid golfer. Long term members generally provide many benefits to courses like bringing guests, spending money on food and merchandise along taking pride in helping to maintain the course and from my experience the green fee player usually does the opposite. Call it what it is your buying a 60 game pack not a membership.I like to go play maybe 9 holes maybe just 5 holes whatever late in the day when not busy, with their option i need to use a round to do it. That sucks. Sure private clubs allow that option but not that many around and most have waiting lists.I feel like these courses have treated their long term members like crap and i hope it comes back to bite them.

  26. #26
    Ace dmartin is on a distinguished road
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    Hey back-off on Pineview !!
    up front if you want unlimited games 76-thru 100 are $10 each above 100 are free.
    You also have the option of 75 rounds and unlimited on the Executive course which is in my opinion
    a very challenging track with very good greens.

    Many of us left Meadows on the dramatic price change and also putting out 2021 rates after remembrance day when they were normally available mid October. didn't mind the money.. did mind the very late date.
    Last edited by dmartin; 11-23-2021 at 01:41 PM. Reason: to make mike happy :) no rant intended

  27. #27
    Administrator MikeRaganold is on a distinguished road MikeRaganold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmartin View Post

    Dumping on public courses is fine... just get the facts straight.
    NO IT IS NOT FINE.
    Check the rules before posting.

    If you have a rant, read the rules before posting.

    If you have a beef with the course, work it out with them privately.

    This is a private forum but open to the public to read.

    Be respectful.

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    For Ottawa Golf Inc.

  28. #28
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Be nice to Dmartin. One of the nicest guy you'll ever meet.
    Some courses have taken advantage of Covid. For example one course in my area used to charge $21 for a round after 12 during the week. They jacked up the price to $40 so fudge it crook.
    Some courses want to do away with Corporate memberships next year( Golf extra- Executive Golf) or add restrictions. For example weekends after 12 only. They seem to forget that those memberships kept them afloat during winter months for many years.
    As for private clubs it's a different ball game altogether. They should not even be mentioned here. 75 games= $80 per round and possibly more
    10 gran initiation fees. $5200 yearly fees. $900 minimum bar bill and more.
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  29. #29
    Amateur Johnyc is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieflongtee View Post
    Be nice to Dmartin. One of the nicest guy you'll ever meet.
    Some courses have taken advantage of Covid. For example one course in my area used to charge $21 for a round after 12 during the week. They jacked up the price to $40 so fudge it crook.
    Some courses want to do away with Corporate memberships next year( Golf extra- Executive Golf) or add restrictions. For example weekends after 12 only. They seem to forget that those memberships kept them afloat during winter months for many years.
    As for private clubs it's a different ball game altogether. They should not even be mentioned here. 75 games= $80 per round and possibly more
    10 gran initiation fees. $5200 yearly fees. $900 minimum bar bill and more.
    Hey with the way prices are going and the cap on games played this wouldnít be a bad deal at all.

  30. #30
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnyc View Post
    Hey with the way prices are going and the cap on games played this wouldnít be a bad deal at all.
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