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  1. #1
    Head Greenskeeper Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    Provisional ball under the new rules

    OK so We had a player hit today into an area he thought the ball would likely be lost. He played a provisional as we usually yo. A discussion started about what do we do next year.

    Player hit a ball to a questionable area.
    Player Hit a provisional
    Provisional would be lying 3 if needed
    Can't find the original ball
    The area where the ball was lost is known or virtually certain
    The player is allowed under the new rules to drop in the vicinity with a 2 stroke penalty
    Player would lying 3 where the drop would be

    In this example, the drop would be better than the provisional, but the question works either way.
    So he now has a choice where he hits his 4th shot????

    THE QUESTION - Does the player get a choice?

    I say the spirit of the new rule is to eliminate the provisional and the walk back if one isn't played and that if a second ball is hit from the tee it is the ball in play.

    I cannot find clarification of the status of the provisional ball or even if they are now obsolete as it seems to me they should be
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  2. #2
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    The words of the new Local Rule include

    [I]But, the player may not use this option when:

    The ball is known or virtually certain to have come to rest in a penalty area, or
    The player has played another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 18.3).[/I

    See
    http://www.usga.org/content/usga/hom...-distance.html

  3. #3
    Head Greenskeeper Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    So if you play a provisional you cannot invoke this drop, but must play the provisional if the original ball is not found
    That’s the question answered
    Thank you
    Last edited by Kilroy; 07-19-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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  4. #4
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    So if i hit O.B. i am to walk to point of entry and drop and play my fourth shot from there, correct? I am not obliged to play a provisional from the tee box.
    Last edited by Marcos; 07-27-2018 at 07:04 AM.

  5. #5
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 gbower is on a distinguished road
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    Have a look at this link which should help.

    http://www.usga.org/content/usga/hom...-distance.html

  6. #6
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Oddly, the same link I posted

  7. #7
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 gbower is on a distinguished road
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    Figured if he didn't catch it the 1st time maybe the 2nd. LOL!!!!

  8. #8
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbower View Post
    Have a look at this link which should help.

    http://www.usga.org/content/usga/hom...-distance.html
    Thanks Gerry and AAA .

  9. #9
    Competitor em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Interesting that the rule states to drop in the fairway and not within 2 club lengths from the point of entry.

  10. #10
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69 View Post
    Interesting that the rule states to drop in the fairway and not within 2 club lengths from the point of entry.
    Yes, i saw that. I guess they assume that if you had hit a provisional, it would be in the fairway.

  11. #11
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
    Yes, i saw that. I guess they assume that if you had hit a provisional, it would be in the fairway.
    There doesn't seem to be a restriction on using the LR for your provisional if it goes astray.

  12. #12
    Known entity SnazzyD is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
    So if i hit O.B. i am to walk to point of entry and drop and play my fourth shot from there, correct? I am not obliged to play a provisional from the tee box.
    Wait.....so any O.B. shot now has a TWO stroke penalty?! I used to curse the "Playing 4" rule while playing my local course in Japan, but that's because our golf bags were fastened to a conveyor belt and with no ability to play through, they have to keep slower players moving along.

    For normal golf on a normal course, a two-stroke penalty is ridiculous...

  13. #13
    Hall of Fame spackler is on a distinguished road spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnazzyD View Post
    Wait.....so any O.B. shot now has a TWO stroke penalty?! I used to curse the "Playing 4" rule while playing my local course in Japan, but that's because our golf bags were fastened to a conveyor belt and with no ability to play through, they have to keep slower players moving along.

    For normal golf on a normal course, a two-stroke penalty is ridiculous...
    It's stroke and distance essentially, the same as hitting OB before except for limiting the damage to three off the tee (preventing multiple OB shots from tee or anywhere else). No more going sleeve!

    Also, I expect most courses to mark areas where you might lose a ball on a hole (ie., forested areas) with red stakes, so a one shot penalty with lateral relief.

  14. #14
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnazzyD View Post
    Wait.....so any O.B. shot now has a TWO stroke penalty?! I used to curse the "Playing 4" rule while playing my local course in Japan, but that's because our golf bags were fastened to a conveyor belt and with no ability to play through, they have to keep slower players moving along.

    For normal golf on a normal course, a two-stroke penalty is ridiculous...
    You hit a ball over the jungle into OB. You unofficially drop nearby for 1 penalty stroke or you officially take S&D for 1 penalty stroke and the loss of distance.
    In future, you hit a ball over the jungle into OB. You officially drop on the fairway for 2 penalty strokes.
    What the problem?

  15. #15
    Competitor em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
    ...they assume that if you had hit a provisional, it would be in the fairway.
    I guess they don't know me very well...lol! This new rule might actually lower my score.

  16. #16
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69 View Post
    I guess they don't know me very well...lol! This new rule might actually lower my score.
    I'm with you on this one. A lot of guys i play with dont even bother hitting a provisional and they drop at aprox.point of entry and take one stroke penalty witch i tell them its a two stroke penalty. I have been doing this for years when i wasnt sure if my ball was o.b.or not. I guess i was ahead of my time.LOL.

  17. #17
    Forum Jedi justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by spackler View Post
    It's stroke and distance essentially, the same as hitting OB before except for limiting the damage to three off the tee (preventing multiple OB shots from tee or anywhere else). No more going sleeve!
    I agree. Under the new rules whether you drop with a two stroke penalty or hit a provisional - in either case you are hitting your 4th shot afterwards. The two stroke penalty option limits the damage.

    That being said, there may be situations where hitting the provisional might still be worthwhile. At Metcalfe there are a lot of doglegs with deep woods at the corner of the dogleg. If your ball is lost in the woods and you didn't make the corner, it might make more sense to try the provisional so your 4th shot could be at the green - especially if it is match play.

    And of course there is dreaded sh*nk! Why take a 2-stroke penalty and drop it 10 yards closer?

  18. #18
    Golf Pig of the Year 09, 10, 11 Marcos is on a distinguished road Marcos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
    I agree. Under the new rules whether you drop with a two stroke penalty or hit a provisional - in either case you are hitting your 4th shot afterwards. The two stroke penalty option limits the damage.

    That being said, there may be situations where hitting the provisional might still be worthwhile. At Metcalfe there are a lot of doglegs with deep woods at the corner of the dogleg. If your ball is lost in the woods and you didn't make the corner, it might make more sense to try the provisional so your 4th shot could be at the green - especially if it is match play.

    And of course there is dreaded sh*nk! Why take a 2-stroke penalty and drop it 10 yards closer?
    I agree with you that sometimes its better to hit a provisional.

  19. #19
    Hall of Fame spackler is on a distinguished road spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
    I agree. Under the new rules whether you drop with a two stroke penalty or hit a provisional - in either case you are hitting your 4th shot afterwards. The two stroke penalty option limits the damage.

    That being said, there may be situations where hitting the provisional might still be worthwhile. At Metcalfe there are a lot of doglegs with deep woods at the corner of the dogleg. If your ball is lost in the woods and you didn't make the corner, it might make more sense to try the provisional so your 4th shot could be at the green - especially if it is match play.

    And of course there is dreaded sh*nk! Why take a 2-stroke penalty and drop it 10 yards closer?
    I agree, but I think most courses will mark these areas as hazards penalty areas next year. OB will still be OB, but I think areas where a ball might be lost in the woods will be red staked.
    Last edited by spackler; 07-30-2018 at 10:37 AM.

  20. #20
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Penalty areas

  21. #21
    Hall of Fame spackler is on a distinguished road spackler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAA View Post
    Penalty areas
    Quote Originally Posted by spackler View Post
    I agree, but I think most courses will mark these areas as penalty areas next year. OB will still be OB, but I think areas where a ball might be lost in the woods will be red staked.
    You are correct of course.

  22. #22
    Out of Bounds orangeTANG is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by spackler View Post
    I agree, but I think most courses will mark these areas as hazards next year. OB will still be OB, but I think areas where a ball might be lost in the woods will be red staked.
    I wonder if marking areas like this will affect a courses slope rating. Take Greensmere Legacy for example. That may not be too difficult a course for someone that hits a straight ball, but I'm someone that is guaranteed to lose a few balls in the bush (even if the ball lands on the fairway). Would the thick bush have been taking into account during the slope rating? Would making the bush red have affect - either up or down - on the rating of the course?

  23. #23
    Head Greenskeeper Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    Would making the bush red have affect - either up or down - on the rating of the course?
    Good question. I would expect courses will have to be re-rated if they mark them differently than they are now.
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  24. #24
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangeTANG View Post
    I wonder if marking areas like this will affect a courses slope rating. Take Greensmere Legacy for example. That may not be too difficult a course for someone that hits a straight ball, but I'm someone that is guaranteed to lose a few balls in the bush (even if the ball lands on the fairway). Would the thick bush have been taking into account during the slope rating? Would making the bush red have affect - either up or down - on the rating of the course?
    Areas that are currently described as 'Extreme Rough' in the rating system are rated the same as OOB.

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