Playing Wrong Ball vs Ball played from Wrong Place

[jeff]

Henry played a good shot to within eight feet of the hole. As the coin marking Henry’s ball interfered with Tom’s putt, Henry moved it one putter head to the side. After Tom putted Henry forgot to move the mark back, replacing the ball and putting from the coin’s new position. He holed the putt. What's the ruling?

Does 15/4 apply or does 20-7c/1 apply?
For 15/4, the siatuation is treated as playing a wrong ball while 20-7c/1 as ball being played from wrong place. 15/4 may result DQ while 20-7c/1 doesn't.

For your quick reference:

15/4
Player Lifts Ball, Sets It Aside and Plays It from Where Set Aside
Q. A player marks the position of his ball on the putting green, lifts the ball and sets it aside. By mistake, he putts the ball from the spot at which he set it aside. What is the ruling?

A. When a ball is lifted under Rule 20-1, it is out of play – see Definition of “Ball in Play”. When the player played a stroke with his ball while it was out of play, he played a wrong ball (Rule 15-3).

In match play, the player lost the hole (Rule 15-3a).
In stroke play, he incurred a penalty of two strokes and was required to correct the error before playing from the next tee; otherwise, he would be disqualified (Rule 15-3b).

20-7c/1
Ball Replaced at Wrong Place on Putting Green and Holed
Q. In stroke play, a competitor in replacing his ball on the putting green inadvertently put the ball in a wrong place nearby and holed out. The error was then discovered and the competitor put his ball in the right place and holed out. What is the ruling?

A. The score with the ball played from the wrong place counts and the competitor must add two penalty strokes to that score (Rule 16-1b or 20-3a and 20-7c).

The competitor incurs no penalty for having putted from the right place after holing out from a wrong place.


Many thanks!

[BC MIST]

To add to the above challenge let's say the player, after playing from the wrong place, did NOT hole the putt, and then picked up his ball, played and holed the putt from the right place. Does this change the ruling? (No "Rulies" allowed)

[nice_lag]

I believe that in Henry's case, he is assessed a 2-stroke penalty (if in stroke play, loss of hole in match play). Now moving on to BC Mist's addition, the score with the ball played from the wrong place counts and the competitor must add two penalty strokes to that score (Rule 16-1b or 20-3a and 20-7c). The competitor incurs no penalty for having putted from the right place after holing out from a wrong place.

[nokids]

To add to the above challenge let's say the player, after playing from the wrong place, did NOT hole the putt, and then picked up his ball, played and holed the putt from the right place. Does this change the ruling? (No "Rulies" allowed)

20-7c/2

Q. In stroke play, A mistakenly replaced his ball in front of B's ball-marker (which was near A's ball-marker) and putted. The ball came to rest about one foot from the hole. The error was then discovered and A lifted his ball without marking its position, placed it in front of his own ball-marker and finished the hole. What is the ruling?

A. When A replaced his ball in front of B's ball-marker and putted, he played from a wrong place and incurred a penalty of two strokes; the ball was in play (Rule 20-7c).

When A then lifted his ball from where it lay about one foot from the hole without marking its position and did not replace it, he incurred the general penalty (two strokes) for a breach of Rule 20-1 — see second paragraph of Rule 20-1.

Thus, A incurred a total penalty of four strokes.

[nice_lag]

Decision 20-7c/1 Ball Replaced at Wrong Place on Putting Green and Holed.

The score with the ball played from the wrong place counts and the competitor must add two penalty strokes to that score (Rule 16-1b or 20-3a and 20-7c). The competitor incurs no penalty for having putted from the right place after holing out from a wrong place.

In Decision 20-7c/2, the ball was never marked by competitor A, therefore it is a different situation.

[BC MIST]

Decision 20-7c/1 Ball Replaced at Wrong Place on Putting Green and Holed.

The score with the ball played from the wrong place counts and the competitor must add two penalty strokes to that score (Rule 16-1b or 20-3a and 20-7c). The competitor incurs no penalty for having putted from the right place after holing out from a wrong place.

In Decision 20-7c/2, the ball was never marked by competitor A, therefore it is a different situation.

It was and that was my point in changing the original scenario, as this can and has happened on the course. It is important to remember that when you play from a wrong place, the ball is IN PLAY and you do not have to correct your error.(Unless a serious breach) If you do and move the ball in play and do not replace it, the penalty is two strokes,(18-2a) hence the total of 4.

This contrasts with playing a wrong ball where you MUST correct your error and you are done for the day if you do not.

Now, what do you do with a wrongly substituted ball?

[nice_lag]

I would think that this "new" ball becomes the ball in play. If you haven't played with it yet, you can replace it. If you make a stroke at it (loss of hole or 2-stroke penalty). If you wrongly substituted a ball and played it from the wrong place, you don't incur additional penalties (ie the total penalty is 2 strokes, not 4 in stroke play).

[jeff]

Thanks a lot BC_MIST and nice_lag for the replies above. I did read 20-7c/1 and 20-7c/2 before I posted the question.

I still don't get why the ball in 15/4 is a wrong ball but the ball in 20-7c/1 is in play.

[nice_lag]

Thanks a lot BC_MIST and nice_lag for the replies above. I did read 20-7c/1 and 20-7c/2 before I posted the question.

I still don't get why the ball in 15/4 is a wrong ball but the ball in 20-7c/1 is in play.

Rules officials will likely provide a great explanation but I think that the main difference is that in 15/4 the ball is out of play (not having been replaced, therefore a wrong ball) while in 20-7c/1, the ball was put back in play, albeit at the wrong spot.

[BC MIST]

Thanks a lot BC_MIST and nice_lag for the replies above. I did read 20-7c/1 and 20-7c/2 before I posted the question.

I still don't get why the ball in 15/4 is a wrong ball but the ball in 20-7c/1 is in play.

We have been taught that, generally speaking, if you DON'T gets your hands on a ball that is not yours and play it, it is a wrong ball, while if you do get your hands on it, it is a wrongly substituted ball. Example: Your ball is in a bunker and you probe with a club find a ball, deem it unplayable, drop and play it, and then discover the ball is not yours. Even though it was not your ball, it is a wrongly substituted ball because you had the opportunity to inspect and identify it. In 15/4 the ball that was played had been lifted and so it is out of play and is deemed to be equipment. Play a ball that is out of play and it's a wrong ball.

If you drop a substituted ball, it is in play, whether the substitution is permitted or not. The good thing is that 20-6, the "eraser" rule, allows for the correction of this kind of mistake, as long as the ball is not played.

Oops! Guess I should have read your last post first.

[jeff]

Thanks nice_lag and BC_MIST again! Especially for BC_MIST's very clear explanation. It helps a lot.