Foresight HMT vs Protee vs GSA Club Cam vs. GSA PX2

[wisetoad]

Hi,

I'm looking at getting a launch monitor but I also need club data. Anyone have comments on club data accuracy using a mat (Protee, GSA PX2) vs a camera system (Foresight HMT, GSA)? I want a camera based ball track system for flight accuracy, but need good club data since my golf game needs lot of improvement.

Thanks

[ZMax]

First of all, I have yet to see a device that can measure club face perfectly at the moment of impact. Having said that, both Protee and PX2 are pretty accurate at measuring club path and speed. Protee measures club face better than the PX2. The Protee will also measure impact location between heel and toe. On Protee and PX2, club face is measure just before impact because there's a very small distance between the sensors and tee location. Doing it this way is still better than Trugolf or the IR sensors of an Optishot/P3pro.

From what we've seen of the $6500 HMT, I wouldn't trust the data for working on swings. Can't believe they're selling for that much. We have a thread about it somewhere around here. The GSA club cam also has issues. Users have reported problems in various threads and IMO, it's not accurate. Don't believe the hype on GSA website. Measuring the club especially the face angle is very difficult to do with cameras.

To do both accurately might require combining two separate systems. Not possible at the moment but might be possible in the not too distant future.

[bubba22]

Very good summary Z.

[syhlif32]

You should narrow down a little more what you want!
Do you envision taking the launch monitor outside to the range/ course?
if then the Protee/ GSA is out.

If you want a setup for inside to practice your swing (game improvement) and play the courses (entertainment) then the GC2 makes little sense!
Know some GC2 owners will protest this, but paying 4 times the price for courses no club data and no upgrades makes no sense.

Apart from that the GC2 is very nice and very slick design. Much less hassle to setup than the Protee.

[wbealsd]

The new CG3 course offerings for the GC2 are still somewhat "spendy", but do seem to make the GC2 more competitive for game play. The price and performance of the HMT are really disappointing. A "reasonably priced" system that offers both accurate club and ball data remains "The Holy Grail". For now, it's a matter of what trade-off one is comfortable with, within budget.

[bubba22]

Bottom line is like anything in life, we must consider the price. GC2, HMT and courses are way too expensive for what you get when there are options like the Protee that are 1/2 the price and still very accurate. If you can afford the GC2 HMT course combo, then go for it. I certainly will not spend that much when I know that the market will bring other options at a lower price point. I am very happy with the Protee especially given that they are constantly upgrading and adding features. The GC2 without HMT is a good option but remember you will not get club data so it depends on what is really important for you. This leads back to my important question "Club vs Ball data" http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...a-vs-Ball-Data

[wisetoad]

Did ProTee get a ball spin option yet, or is it calculated from club data? Anyone had much success with the GSA spin cam?

Portability and left/right compatibility is not a big concern for me. I plan on having a dedicated room.

[ZMax]

Protee is still working on their spin cam. Spin axis is still calculated from club data. GSA spin cam has been in development for over 3 years and still does not work. But their news page hints that it could be ready soon. Soon meaning any day now to 12 months from now.

[Kball]

Interesting -- I recall seeing a thread where Cory was just starting to test the HMT -- did he determine that its accuracy is bad? I realize the price is high.

[Asics]

Everyone must consider price, but where some options will be too costly for some, it won't be for others. Guy driving a Ford thinks someone is crazy for spending so much on a Mercedes. Guy driving the Mercedes feels the same about someone driving the Maserati. Someone enjoying the DD may think it's crazy to spend so much on a Protee. Protee user thinks the same about the GC2. I personally feel the GC2 is well worth the price to get the measured spin. With Cory's current deal for the GC2 using the new CG3 software, it's not much more expensive than the Protee unless you want a whole bunch of courses. Unfortunately for the original poster, GC2 won't give club data, though. Jury still seems to be out on the accuracy of the HMT. Every system has tradeoffs. You have to decide what features are most important within your own budget. Talk of future systems providing everything at a cheaper price is just that right now...nothing but talk.

[bubba22]

Asics, your point is well taken. What is a reasonable "cost", is a personal decision. The point is that the same courses being used by Protee, GSA etc are marked up to the moon by Foresight. I for one don't think that is fair. Their courses are overpriced for sure. The cost of the base unit will come down with competition. Let's take the radar based units for example. Trackman was not an option at 20 plus thousand. Now you can get a Flightscope for 4 grand. Remember the hardware cost to make the GC2 is peanuts, but the software development etc is what is making the unit pricey. Martin may have a scattered approach to development, but for sure he is brilliant and is right on with his thoughts that other companies will develop and drive prices down.

[Asics]

I don't disagree that Foresight marks the prices way up on the courses. I don't understand the decision, and I would buy the new CG3 software for the games for my kids if it was lower priced. I use the unit more for practice and use the range most of the time. If I liked to play alot of different courses, that would definitely be a mark against the GC2. Each system has its pros and cons.

[bubba22]

True Asics, but remember this thread is asking regarding the Foresight HMT ($13000 before courses) vs other club data units (<$6000 including courses). You are speaking of just the GC2 alone without courses. It works for you without club data and thats great. Others want club data. Once again we come back to CLUB DATA vs BALL DATA ---> http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...a-vs-Ball-Data
I mean if price is no issue there would be way more folks buying the HMT, but I don't see that happening!!

[CPA]

Sure if I wanted to pour $6500 in the can I would add HMT to the GC2. For the moment I am still waiting for Swingbyte to come through with the targetline fix so accuracy can be tested. $150 well spent if it provides club data when I want it.

Otherwise I still prefer ball data. Train how you play, you have to use your shot shapes. distances etc (ie what you can see on course)without club data to fix your swing during play. A swing is 3 dimensional and knowing the club data is going to be of limited value if the cause is hidden in the swing....too much weight on one foot.... not enough turn....too much right hand....bad golfer

Watching ball flight can give you club knowledge , ie started right then draw to left of targetline, pretty clear what swingpath and clubhead were doing....... and if you dont know buy a device that can give you club data (or do a crash course on the new ball flight laws.)

[bubba22]

Being a player that hits a draw that turns into a snap hook, I know my ball flight, but want the club data over the ball data. On my sim, I hit snap hooks when I get too aggressive and seeing the club data is what I want, but everyone is different.

I fear that the Swingbyte and all the other club analysers will not be as accurate even with the targetline fix. If not then you should get the HMT CPA and give us a good review.

[CPA]

Bubba , by too aggressive do you mean fast? How does that change the dynamics of your swing?

Here in Oz it won't be $6500 but 10 after middlemen and tax and distance and the way the earth spins.

Don't feel the need to play with dots. Will wait.....and wait.

[bubba22]

Strong grip, too much wrist, Flip etc ---> Closed clubface with inside out path. It does change the dynamics of my swing. I like to hit different shots and seeing the club data is critical. If it wasn't then why is Foresight (and every other company) trying to come out with club analysis?

[MR J]

I bought the sky pro swing analyzer it's not too bad but I would love to have a driving range app for it.... even if it's just calculated, there's enough information from it..... or a driving range from WGT that we could pay for, that would be over-the-top.... it recognizes the club you're using must see loft it Aligns with your Club face.... angle of attack swing speed shaft lean and more.... Got to be more information then an ES 14..... I think there's two battles going on one between software and the other hardware.... I like the new PX3 or PX4 BUT A PX3 WITH A VTRAC looks right in my price range.... the ES16 at $5000 is retarded I would rather get a Xi flight scope for 2500 it's proven..... It looks like if you run E6 with the Xi you can drag more information from it. from what I understand...... Love Playing the simulator courses but want accuracy to..... so it doesn't ruin my swing, I do practice lots with a net.... I can sacrifice putting for accuracy.... I thought of running a PX1 with a LX LITE OR PRO....or maybe Vcam... have seen no youtube vid on it... but I agree with some of the earlier forms, there is not enough testing on YouTube! it seems like there's only videos of people trying to sell you their product.....trust me were the beast and all the rest...lol...that being said I do appreciate par2pro for their videos there the the Best... but at times they seem bias... i.e. protee... appreciate any of your thoughts.... because there's a lot of people commenting on gear they've never ever owned or try... Who knows maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like a deep well, I don't want to be at the bottom..... appreciate any thoughts....

[MR J]

Heard some talk on a form of sky pro Sharing data with skytrak that would be awesome it might just solve the putting problems... And give more accurate readings one person commented they'll wait a couple years till the dust settles.... might not be a bad thing there's a lot of talk out there someone was mentioning flight scope is developing a system that can be used in close quarters.... but it might just be talk.... I agree with one person who said it's a lot of money for plastic and a little bit of electronics.... I would have to agree getting gouged for software, I can buy a new MacBook Pro with the touch bar all kinds of crazy programs for the same price and there's a lot more that goes into a Mac and it's made of aluminum.... And the camera and microphone are not extra.....lol... been using mine for 10 years still works great....to funny... I had big hopes for the ES 16 they promised it would be 2000 to 2500 at first on YouTube...... they Probably deleted the YouTube video by now...lol... I thought finally someone that would Bring some reality to the every day working joe... But sadly no just like all the rest..... I guess I just have to wait and let them fight it out.... till somebody gets brave enough to put out product that all of us can use and trust.... Maybe it's just a dream.... Sorry just had to get that off my chest.....

[bubba22]

Pay little faith on club attached swing analyzers. I highly doubt that Skypro will accurately connect with Skytrak. What exactly are you looking for?

[MR J]

Would like to get a flight simulator that is adequate enough that it won't ruin my swing love playing the golf games... played a couple winters on a GSA PX2 was a lot of fun but not that accurate, putting, chipping, fluky shots ....looks like the Xi is a good fit....but the software with the E6 is sketchy.....I don't see any real prices and you probably have to pay for any upgrades maybe yearly fees I don't know flight scope site has no pricing....Thinking on new PX3 with VCAM or the new Cam coming ......

[Buckets]

How is a flight simulator going to ruin your swing??

[bubba22]

GSA always has a new cam coming. Be careful what you purchase there. How much better will the PX3 with vcam be over a PX5? Not much in my mind. Either one will be better than just the PX2 you used. Also look at a Protee system with TGC. If you are thinking on a radar based unit, suggest calling Flightscope about the Xi pricing, E6 integration etc. Make sure you have enough room for the ball flight.

[MR J]

my room that I hit balls into a net is 14 X 14 with a 10 foot ceiling if I need an extra foot I can put it in the doorway and use metal stickers on the ball....

[bubba22]

You need a min 16 feet. More space the better. Issues with wedges in tight spaces. Also no real chipping or putting. For indoor use you need stickers. Why not just ge a Skytrak?

[MR J]

Very good question I have limited experience with simulators that being said I've used a few of them the difference between calculated and measured ball flight....calculated....I would hit a ball and totally hit it to the left it would show a different ball flight on the screen sooo you start changing your swing to get the desired result then out on the course you wonder what's wrong with your swing.....lol if you know your swing and you're a scratch golfer it's not a problem but if you're like me high handicapper and are working hard to develop your swing your greedy for all the most accurate information you can get your hands on..... Within your price budget that's the trick GC2 with HMT is my first pick but I cannot afford it.....soooo saving for?

[MR J]

Read a lot of the reviews they say the support is not that good and the software has got yearly fees just got a SkyPro having problems with it don't have a lot of faith in the product... Accuracy I don't know but you sure have to have it close to your clubs

[MR J]

It would be nice if someone did a side-by-side comparison with protee and GSA PX3.... price point and software.... using the GC2 to check the data.....the protee is a lot more money they look like the exact same thing....he even work for the company GSA if there's such a big difference I'd love to see it on YouTube...... seeing is believing

[bubba22]

What is your budget? A comparison side by side of ProTee and PX5 is not possible nor needed. ProTee/PX5/PX3 are all calculated spin units. Skytrak is the cheapest launch monitor out there now.

[MR J]

Looking at 2000.00 US