P3ProSwing Accuracy, Test device, Results, Questions

[Jon Robert]

I got my P3ProSwing in the mail 2 days ago. Iimmediately put it to use having read the on line manual a few times and was ready to give it a test drive.

I was completely freaked out by the unbelievable numbers on club face angle. I sent an email to P3ProSwing tech saying the blasted thing is always giving me bogus reading of a club face 6-18 degrees or so open even when I deliberately close it.

I received a reply saying they get this complaint all the time and it is light or reflection issues. I attempted to eliminate the same. I still got unbelievable readings on club face angle while all the rest were believable. So I made a test device.

I placed a step ladder over the device (I will attempt to include a photo) I made a pendulum out of a 1x4 with a 2x4 cross piece that acted as the pivoting “hinge” on the ladder brace. A piece of reflecting tape was put on the bottom of the board to simulate the club. This was then pendulumed back and forth like a club. The test device reveals that the P3ProSwing produces a repeating reading over and over (as it is in photo 2 degrees closed, 2 degrees in to out) which restores my faith in the device's accuracy.

But my test device raises questions.

Questions that some of you may or may not have any insight into. I hope you do.

Question 1) Since theP3ProSwing does not have sensors exactly at the ball but rather 3/4" distance from the rear of the ball and since the golf swing/face moves on an arc - the question is how many degrees change can be expected between the sensors and actual contact with the ball? At what speed? Have you ever done experiments with this? Or made a rough estimate through use?

Question 2) Since I still get open readings when I deliberately close the face --- are there some issues that are well known that show up on simulators due to a lie angle for example throwing off measurements. Angle of approach? Etc?

Question 3 has anyone ever found data on what range of degrees of club angles results in good shots, pros angles of ball strikes, general club/shot angles information?

Thanks again. As it turns out my original disbelief was not from device inaccuracy. Everything was working the first time and required no lighting attention. However some questions still exist. Which is to be expected I guess from a device trying to measure a club in action.

[ZMax]

Welcome to the world of IR reflective golf club sensing technology. You have chosen to travel down the same road that myself and others have gone down not too long ago. Did your research not included the big P3pro thread?

P3pro's answer to most of your problems will be light or reflections, that is why they recommend taping all clubs including irons. Have fun with that. Good news is they have a 30 day return policy. Perhaps you will understand Bubba's comments now.

[Jon Robert]

Welcome to the world of IR reflective golf club sensing technology. You have chosen to travel down the same road that myself and others have gone down not too long ago. Did your research not included the big P3pro thread?

P3pro's answer to most of your problems will be light or reflections, that is why they recommend taping all clubs including irons. Have fun with that. Good news is they have a 30 day return policy. Perhaps you will understand Bubba's comments now.

Why spend so much time and effort shaking a finger and scolding when the time could have been spent simply answering one question? Neither I nor I am confidant will any future inquirers will find your comment helpful. This comment is like scolding someone in a row boat off shore asking for direction that they should have... and then not telling them which way is shore. So instead of pandering to Bubba for what ever reason you are singing his praises ( I don't care why) how about if you take a stab at answering one of the questions. like what effect lie angle, club rocker/radius etc has on the sensors.

Let me be very clear on one thing. When you or anyone else provides a response like you did it accomplishes one thing and one thing only. It pegs my suspicion meter to the top that you are really salesman peddling your several thousand dollar simulators so you just trash the affordable ones. I read one post where one person admitted that they were a rep. So feel free to shake the I told you so finger and whatever. Why bother making such posts? Maybe you are selling/promoting the competition. Hmmmm. How about taking a stab at answering the questions.

[orangeTANG]

I haven't used the P3Pro simulator before, but I was showing very open club face angels on Optishot using my Burner Irons because of the offset of the irons. There was a configuration page where you could go in, adjust all your iron parameters and that helped a lot.

That said, it never truly worked because I had lighting issues (these things are very sensitive, even in the same location at two different times in the day could cause issues) and I ended up just returning the unit.

[CPA]

Jon robert, it would appear you have not endeared yourself with the 2 most senior and knowledgeable members of the sim forum.

The chances of getting assistance now from them are slim.

Whilst I heeded the long p3pro thread and did not buy one can I suggest the answers;

1 p3pro would have done the research and estimate the actual numbers at impact.

2 as Zmax said the known issue is with lighting and taping.

3 Google trackman pga tour averages and you should find the tables.

And yes remember you have 30 days, test it and if you are not happy return it, if happy keep it.

[northgolf]

The bad numbers persisted with my P3Pro even with taping. I have posted my disgust with the unit in several threads including the long P3Pro thread. I eventually gave up on it and will eventually get a camera unit.

You have thirty days, make up your mind quickly.

[ZMax]

The issues with lighting and reflections are real, so answering your questions is a waste of my time. I simply went straight to the point about the 30 return policy. I'm a salesmen? LOL!!!!

[bubba22]

Jon perhaps you should pm with SFR. He should pipe in and give his input as he is the resident expert on the P3pro. No need for hostility, people are just giving some inputs based on their experience. Continue with your research and keep us posted for sure. Good luck!

[BobbycFlame]

Do as NorthGolf and others have done...Return it.If P3 can correct accuracy, erroneous readings and improve tech support, then I would reconsider.Golfsmith took my P3 back and offered me an Optishot. Now my accuracy issues are gone and when I had a question OptiShot's tech support got back to me the same day. Unlike P3 which took 17 days.

[psace]

Enough said!!

[Jon Robert]

Do as NorthGolf and others have done...Return it.If P3 can correct accuracy, erroneous readings and improve tech support, then I would reconsider.Golfsmith took my P3 back and offered me an Optishot. Now my accuracy issues are gone and when I had a question OptiShot's tech support got back to me the same day. Unlike P3 which took 17 days.

Why do you suspect that the Optishot does not have issues? From what I understand they use the same basic technology. (tech on P3 took less than 24 hours for me.)

But then again jterpstr said he had issues with Optshot. "I haven't used the P3Pro simulator before, but I was showing very open club face angels on Optishot using my Burner Irons because of the offset of the irons. There was a configuration page where you could go in, adjust all your iron parameters and that helped a lot. That said, it never truly worked because I had lighting issues (these things are very sensitive, even in the same location at two different times in the day could cause issues) and I ended up just returning the unit."

I will be doing some more experiments with my ladder pendulum thing this weekend.

[Jon Robert]

Additional testing and video reults are here http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...-need-speakers)

[Vicoz2009]

I quite like the open nature of this forum, everybody can have their say; and Jon, you did the same thing - great! Maybe tone it down a little next time.

[SFR]

Additional testing and video reults are here http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...-need-speakers)

Hey Jon,

I made a similar pendulum device, just not that tall. I can get a 17 mph ball speed with normal release. This is how I tested things out.

Try one simple test and see what you get. Do a regular height release with your 2x4 and look at the angle of attack. (Launch angle and ball speed) Then do a real slow swing so the 2x4 only travels a few feet. Then look at the same angle of attack and ball speed. Did you notice something about the launch angle and ball speed? I think when that issue gets resolved you will see a much better result in the ball flight on the P3Pro.

I have no doubt that it can read the club and path accurately but I think the issue is ball flight. What this might be causing now is for example, when you hit a driver with a 70 to 80 mph swing speed and look at the ball carry then swing with a 95 to 100 mph swing speed and compare the carry. What I found was that the slower swing went about right but the faster swing went a lot less than it should. To tweak the faster speed so that it was right made the slow swing way too far. Again I think it is to do with the result of the test you preformed above.

[Jon Robert]

I quite like the open nature of this forum, everybody can have their say; and Jon, you did the same thing - great! Maybe tone it down a little next time.

I always get a chuckle from the - I love free expression as long as it is done in the way I approve - type comments

[Stonebattle]

A very interesting test and results. I take it you want the P3pro to help improve your swing. It seems to me it will do that. Mine has helped me do just that. It's not perfect by any stretch. At this point in time. I tend to ignore the ball flight for the most part and concentrate on the club data. I find what that data shows is similar to what I'm getting on the course for full shots and it still helps me make some corrections. The video helps.

If you ever want to use it as a simulator, I agree with the folks above, return it.

[Jon Robert]

A very interesting test and results. I take it you want the P3pro to help improve your swing. It seems to me it will do that. Mine has helped me do just that. It's not perfect by any stretch. At this point in time. I tend to ignore the ball flight for the most part and concentrate on the club data. I find what that data shows is similar to what I'm getting on the course for full shots and it still helps me make some corrections. The video helps.

If you ever want to use it as a simulator, I agree with the folks above, return it.

I don't at this time have any plans to get into imulated games of golf with the P3ProSwing as the primary pupose. If I did I would be looking at adding a lauch monitor. However a launch monitor data is only factored in for the 2 original courses and not any additional ones. So basically I am focused on it as a swing improvement tool.