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Thread: NHL Playoffs

  1. #61
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
    stats should definatley be considered but watching a player play is the best way to evaluate overall effectiveness on the ice. When I see players cutting accross the ice to go down Karlsson lane that's a sign that they want to go 1/1 with him. He still can't handle the big winger who puts on a burst just over the blue line. Not saying he does not deserve the Norris this year just saying he is not the best all round d-man in the league IMO. I'd also consider intimidation factor , who wants to chip the puck into the corner when you know Chara or Weber is going to meet you ? the one advantage Karlsson has there is speed to the puck but he is not going to intimidate anyone as far as playing the body. He had a great year , looking forward to see if he can replicate next year. one last point , consider which defenceman is on the ice when the game is winding down and a team is protecting a 1 goal lead ( under a minute left in the game )
    Okay, I agree with you that Chara and Weber are better than Karlsson defensively but I think what Karlsson did offensively this year on a team picked to finish last in the East is simply amazing. Who would you pick as the Norris winner this year?

    For me it'd be 1) Karlsson, 2) Weber, 3) Chara.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  2. #62
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    he's a different breed of defenseman, so yes, he's not on the ice in the last minute, unless they need a goal. Chara plays on a much better team, both offensively and defensively. Weber the same. I am on the fence as to whether he should/will win.
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  3. #63
    Champion cleek is on a distinguished road
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    really tough choice , based on the points I think Karlsson will get the nod but the pureists won't agree. Personally I'd go with Weber. All 3 will continue to be front runners for year's to come, Pietrangelo wil be in the mix soon too.

    Changing gears ....what about those Coyotes ? I have not seen them play much , but the first thing I notice from watching the playoffs is ( besides goaltending ) great team speed. Goes to show you don't have to be at the top end of the cap to be succesfull. Tippett also flies under the radar a bit ( small market ) as a really sound coach.

  4. #64
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
    Changing gears ....what about those Coyotes ? I have not seen them play much , but the first thing I notice from watching the playoffs is ( besides goaltending ) great team speed. Goes to show you don't have to be at the top end of the cap to be succesfull. Tippett also flies under the radar a bit ( small market ) as a really sound coach.
    Less than 2 minutes after I started watching the Preds-Yotes game I was asleep. I can't name 10 players in this series:

    radulov
    renne
    weber
    stuart? the guy who plays with weber...
    doan
    smith
    yandle
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  5. #65
    5 Wood leafseh is on a distinguished road leafseh's Avatar
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    In 2009 Mike Green put up 31G 42A for 73pts in 68GP. He was nominated for the Norris along with Lidstrom and Chara. Zdeno Chara won (he had 50pts in 80GP in comparison).

    Until he picks up his defensive play, I liken Karlsson to a Mike Green v2.0.
    Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.

  6. #66
    Champion cleek is on a distinguished road
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    dig deeper nokids , Fisher , Vermette ? and I think the Stuart you're referring to is Ryan Suter

  7. #67
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    Karlsson is well above Mike Green both defensively and offensively. Mike Green was a total defensive liability. Karlson has his moments, and his size hinders him, but he is really effective with his stick. Offensively, Green played on a really potent powerplay, with Ovechkin (110 pts), Backstrom, (88 points) and Semin (78 points) playing along side him. Karlson has done it on a team with minimal skill, where his is responsible for creating most of the offense. I don't think the Green comparison works at all.

    Will he get the Norris? I doubt they'll give it to him. But even if they don't, being the only d-man in the league that other teams have to match up against defensively is a hell of a complement.

  8. #68
    5 Wood leafseh is on a distinguished road leafseh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    Karlsson is well above Mike Green both defensively and offensively. Mike Green was a total defensive liability. Karlson has his moments, and his size hinders him, but he is really effective with his stick. Offensively, Green played on a really potent powerplay, with Ovechkin (110 pts), Backstrom, (88 points) and Semin (78 points) playing along side him. Karlson has done it on a team with minimal skill, where his is responsible for creating most of the offense. I don't think the Green comparison works at all.

    Will he get the Norris? I doubt they'll give it to him. But even if they don't, being the only d-man in the league that other teams have to match up against defensively is a hell of a complement.
    Sorry, I meant his nomination can be compared to Green. In the sense that, even though he has the most points for a defenceman, he's not an elite d-man because his defensive abilities aren't in the same class as Chara or Weber and therefore he can't be considered the best overall d-man. (I think Weber wins IMO).

    As an aside, what are people's thoughts on having a trophy for pts only? (ie an Art Ross for Dmen).
    Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.

  9. #69
    Champion cleek is on a distinguished road
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    how about a best defensive defenceman award instaed ? call it the Rod Langway award? imagine he won the Norris 2x with only 32 & 33 points

  10. #70
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafseh View Post
    Sorry, I meant his nomination can be compared to Green. In the sense that, even though he has the most points for a defenceman, he's not an elite d-man because his defensive abilities aren't in the same class as Chara or Weber and therefore he can't be considered the best overall d-man. (I think Weber wins IMO).

    As an aside, what are people's thoughts on having a trophy for pts only? (ie an Art Ross for Dmen).
    Goalies get their own award, Skaters get Richard trophy, the D-men could get the Orr trophy. would be a nice way to honour him.
    I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.

  11. #71
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
    how about a best defensive defenceman award instaed ? call it the Rod Langway award? imagine he won the Norris 2x with only 32 & 33 points
    langway? I think we could pick a better D-man to base that on ;-)
    I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.

  12. #72
    5 Wood leafseh is on a distinguished road leafseh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffc View Post
    Goalies get their own award, Skaters get Richard trophy, the D-men could get the Orr trophy. would be a nice way to honour him.
    This.
    Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy.

  13. #73
    Champion cleek is on a distinguished road
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    Jeff , I can't name another modern day d-man who won the Norris trophy ( let alone twice ) who was a pure defensive defenceman. The Habs were nutz to trade him.

  14. #74
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
    Jeff , I can't name another modern day d-man who won the Norris trophy ( let alone twice ) who was a pure defensive defenceman. The Habs were nutz to trade him.
    ya, Doug Harvey might be the closest....but leave the Norris, the Norris and come up with the Orr trophy
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  15. #75
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    So who supplies the Devils with their smoke and mirrors???? Are they really this good????
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  16. #76
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Joel ward, that was not a smart play man.
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  17. #77
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  18. #78
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    the more I see the Kings play the more I am leaning towards a new favorite team, they have it all. Lombardi has all the right pieces assembled.

  19. #79
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleek View Post
    the more I see the Kings play the more I am leaning towards a new favorite team, they have it all. Lombardi has all the right pieces assembled.
    You might be on to something. I am not surprised they are where they are right now. I think they under-achieved during the regular season.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

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