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  1. #1
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Golf simulator Technology

    Sites to learn golf simulator technologies!!!

    http://www.ggssystems.com/Future.html

  2. #2
    Pitching Wedge JJSmith is on a distinguished road
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  3. #3
    Known entity psace is on a distinguished road
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    Good resource for those looking for their first simulator as there is lots of information to absorb in making a decision!

  4. #4
    Ryder Cup Par2Pro is on a distinguished road Par2Pro's Avatar
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    No to toot my own horn, but I post comparisons here:
    http://www.par2pro.com/compare.php

    And plan to have more resources this summer.

  5. #5
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Good link Cory. You should add sensors and cameras for Protee.

  6. #6
    Ryder Cup Par2Pro is on a distinguished road Par2Pro's Avatar
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    Good point, it is now changed. I had the link to just the hitting sensor at one point but that option has since been removed. I hope to expand that section this summer

  7. #7
    Sand Wedge geier is on a distinguished road
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    The above links are nice, but a little disappointing in that they don't explain why the GC2 works as well as it does. Coming from a physics background and having contemplated building my own launch monitor, I just had to know and so I looked around a bit. Here is a link with good detail for those willing to skip through the patent lawyer language section and to the real meat:

    www.google.com/patents/US7324663.pdf

    Note: Those hailing from Foresight's competitors will not want to look at this document - triple damages and such ;-)

  8. #8
    4 Iron Andisblue is on a distinguished road
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    geier, I read that whole thing. There is a LOT that goes into that device! It never mentions anything about a stereoscopic camera. It seems to be just using a 2d image analysis and using the size of the ball in the image to determine azimuth.

  9. #9
    Putter Feets57 is on a distinguished road
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    Bubba22', I'm new to all this. am looking to put a sim in my garage( 3rd bay plenty of room). This GSA system looks pretty good.
    Might save me alot of hassle not to have to put composite system together by myself. Price looks not bad. Am looking for a lot
    of practice and then matches with some buddies. What say you? Glad to join you guys. Feets 57

  10. #10
    Sand Wedge geier is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andisblue View Post
    geier, I read that whole thing. There is a LOT that goes into that device! It never mentions anything about a stereoscopic camera. It seems to be just using a 2d image analysis and using the size of the ball in the image to determine azimuth.
    Yes I would bet the second camera is only a trick to acquire a second image quickly, I doubt that they do any "stereoscopic" calculations.

  11. #11
    4 Iron Andisblue is on a distinguished road
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    So what do you think? Even the rep told me that the the gc2 sees the dimples in 3d(which seemed a bit farfetched).

    We know 1 cam watches continuously for that ball to move. Maybe it finds the ball in the frame, creates a small sampling window and then samples that small window at a very high framerate. As soon as the ball is struck, maybe, like you said, the other cam captures a fast 2nd frame (which is a full size frame). It then finds the ball, does it's trial spin correlation runs, and can then predict where the ball will be in the next frame.

    I'm guessing the cameras take turns, which is supported by a video I saw of an emplyee saying that "each camera takes 8 pictures of the ball".

  12. #12
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The GC2 is most likely 2D for ball measurement. The determination of it's horizontal azimuth is the most suspect measurement of the GC2. That google patent PDF is a good article which I have read some months ago. It gives good info on the GC2 technology.

  13. #13
    Postaholic CPA is on a distinguished road
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    Suspect?
    o
    It would appear the owners are happy with azimuth.

    Has azimuth been tested against anything more trusted.

  14. #14
    In the Zone syhlif32 is on a distinguished road
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    The trigonometry used in the paper is for 2D.
    The azimuth accuracy depends on the resolution of the camera as they measure the pixels width of the ball.
    GC2 is a launch monitor and that is what the owners are happy with.

    Owners happy with azimuth, there are two club fitters in south of Florida that are very happy with using a Zelocity for club fitting! Not sure how happy the customers are?

  15. #15
    Sand Wedge geier is on a distinguished road
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    The GC2 generally picks up pushes and pulls correctly. To what degree of precision? Hard to say. I agree with Bubba's use of the term "suspect" in that ball compression has to make it difficult to determine azimuth based on pixel count. I will do some checks with a putter and post the results.

    I am still fascinated by how they get the clear still pictures of the ball. 1/1000s exposure still leaves a smear of 5cm for a ball off a driver. And they take 8 pictures? What kind of flash accomlishes that? There is probably some more technology that was not patented by them, maybe due to prior patents.

  16. #16
    1 Iron FaultyClubs is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by geier View Post
    ...ball compression has to make it difficult to determine azimuth based on pixel count...
    They probably wait until ball compression isn't a factor....it doesn't take long for the ball to recover.


    I am still fascinated by how they get the clear still pictures of the ball. 1/1000s exposure still leaves a smear of 5cm for a ball off a driver...
    It's not dependant on frame rate (ie exposure) but flash speed. Actively triggered flashes (not RC time constant) are easily two orders of magnitude faster than that.

  17. #17
    Sand Wedge geier is on a distinguished road
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    One more thing - a second camera angle is very helpful in distinguishing azimuth from vertical angle.

  18. #18
    Postaholic CPA is on a distinguished road
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    Foresight say on their website the error is +/- 1 degree max.

    anyone still remember sin/cos/tan to the extent necessary to figure out how far 1 degree error would be over 200 metres
    Last edited by CPA; 03-30-2012 at 05:56 PM.

  19. #19
    Sand Wedge JBimsal is on a distinguished road
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    Hey CPA, at 200m, a 1 degree error would be 3.49m offline. Not too shabby, and this is worst-case (I'd assume).

  20. #20
    Postaholic CPA is on a distinguished road
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    3.49.......I will take that.

    I notice Martins TX page on gsa has a few clues on the tech. The photo with flash shows how it helps get a better image of th ball.

  21. #21
    Pitching Wedge Unkynd is on a distinguished road
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    With as fast as technology changes, I'm sure most of the data in this thread is out of date. Is there a modern comparison chart anywhere?

  22. #22
    Sand Wedge Crow is on a distinguished road
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    Hi buuba link went nowhere for me. Of all the golf forums I've been checking out you and mthunt seem to contribute to all or most of them.
    Saw what mthunt uses for his system and what you use for yours. The only difference being mthunt has the gc2 I believe. So does that mean your setup accommodates left and right handed play? You also mentioned in a post that you where looking into the sky track have you done so and incorporated it into your system and how do you like it if so? A big thing for me will be accommodating left and right handed play. If I do end up with a launch monitor is there much to disabling it when left handed golfers are over? As if it was just me and my wife then I would always hook up launch monitor as we are both right handed.

  23. #23
    Albatross mthunt is on a distinguished road
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    Crow, your question is simple so I'll answer. I'm sure he will soon. Bubba's main system is Protee. It incorporates floor sensors and cameras but handles left and right handed players very nicely. I have a launch monitor which means no floor sensors but it's a pain with left and right handed players. I can tell you for me, if I had a lot of left and right handed needs, I'd have two GC2's.

    To answer your other question, if you had a Protee and a GC2, it would be easy to change between the two if using TGC. The only way you could have two systems is Protee and GC2.

  24. #24
    Sand Wedge Crow is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks mthunt, still hoping to get down and see you. From your reply can I take it that you don't even need the protee or you don't use it as you have the GC2?

  25. #25
    Albatross mthunt is on a distinguished road
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    My preference is the GC2 over Protee. I don't have any Protee sensors. The GC2 is all you need if you go that route.

  26. #26
    Sand Wedge Crow is on a distinguished road
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    I need to get in to foresight sports and see Aaron to check out the GC2 and GC2-T-

  27. #27
    Putter tiger is on a distinguished road
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    I know really good simulators from an Austrian company!
    Visit there Homepage: https://indoor-sport-systeme.de

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