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Thread: Launch Monitors

  1. #1
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Launch Monitors

    I thought I would start a discussion on the various launch monitors. There is some good info on the gc2 which is basically a launch monitor that also can be utilized as a simulator for more entertainment. Launch monitors have the benefit of club and ball tracking including spin data that probably translates into more realistic simulation. Most home simulators just track the club (dd,p3pro) or club and ball (st1/pro7/GGS/ProTee) but estimate spin. How accurate these systems are is really a debate. I certainly think the launch monitors are more accurate as they collect more data.There are camera based, laser and 3d doppler based systems and you can debate which is better. The Doppler would seem to me better outdoors due to the fact that you can track a longer distance whereas indoors it is challanged. That is probably where the camera based systems such as the vector, gc2 would be better. Simulation play on these systems are difficult because of the putting and chipping difficulties.

    Questions are there any users that have a launch monitor? What are the best launch monitors for indoor use? Anybody have info on the purelaunch tracker http://zelocitytracker.com/. Are there any launch monitors besides the gc2 that can do simulation for entertainment ie play courses?

    I think that some of the sims over time may integrate with launch monitors to get the spin data that is missing. Certainly that would be a good marriage.

  2. #2
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    rdh remind me again, do the GSA courses accept spin data?

  3. #3
    Im a fixture here rdh is on a distinguished road
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    I believe they do...but not through the interface I used. I used a DLL from Martin that acccepted everything except spin data. 8 or 9 months ago I asked Martin how he would get the spin data from his camera systems (which he was working on at the time) into GSA Golf since it didn't accept it in, but he said it actually does accept it but he needed to modify the DLL to expose that option. So, the short answer as far as I know, is yes.

  4. #4
    1 Iron infinity13 is on a distinguished road infinity13's Avatar
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    A very nice thread as the integration of these systems seems very promising for accuracy and enjoyment.

    A note on the zelocity launch monitor, as I am sure you know it uses doppler radar to determine ball flight characteristics and club data. This means it requires more space than the video driven options would probably require. Also I found an interesting article on the zelocity for measuring spin rate, it seems that the spin rate is determined by strips, and if it cannot be determined this way, it is estimated. It also seems that it wont tell you whether or not the spin rate has been estimated or measured in the new software. The article also shows some worrisome trends in the software.

    Here is the link, read it yourself, I cannot confirm anything the article is saying is true, but something you may wish to pursue if you are considering this launch monitor.

    http://msgolf.files.wordpress.com/20...nchmonitor.pdf

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    1 Iron infinity13 is on a distinguished road infinity13's Avatar
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    Decided to post a second time as the subject of this is different, and my other post seemed long winded already.

    The only launch monitor I have read about that is capable of truly measuring spin rate without reflective strips on the ball is the trackman, it uses a ton of radio waves to determine spin rate, which gives accurate measure all along the flight of the ball (not needed indoors of course).

    Of the other launch monitors I believe the only way to measure spin rate is through reflective strips on the ball itself... I am not sure how the video based systems measure spin rate.

    Sorry to write so much on this but I have been doing a lot of research lately into how the doppler systems work and thought I would share what I have found.

  6. #6
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The GC2 also measures spin without marking the ball. It uses stereoscopic camera system that focuses on a dimple or some mark on the ball to capture the spin etc. Also if you read on the Zelocity tracker there is no ball marker needed. The launch monitors are improving at the same rate as the sims and I think will slowly morph with most home sims.

    I agree with the fact that the radar based systems require more space and length indoors to get the accuracy. Some will also debate how accurate they are as such indoors. I think they are the most accurate outdoor (Trackman/Flightscope). Certainly the camera based systems will have the same accuracy indoors or out.
    The Zelocity Purelaunch has had some trouble with accuracy http://msgolf.wordpress.com/. How good their new tracker system will be is yet to be seen. I think the vector launch monitor is a reasonable unit and the reviews have been ok. Anybody have any first hand experience with the vector pro unit? The p3pro is hopefully going to integrate with that unit and that would certainly give the best of both worlds.

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    8 Iron netcam is on a distinguished road
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    I have used the Vector LM's at my local GolfSmith and they seem to work well although I had nothing to compare it to so I really dont know how accurate they are... One thing I noticed at GolfSmith was that they did not capture the ball flight well if you were not hitting a driver, I was told that is because they use a audible sensor to know when to look for the ball and hitting the ball of the turf with a iron (sometime even a 3 wood off the tee) would rarely read. Perhaps that is just a audible noise problem in the building? I was seeing Spin Data with no markings on the ball, but I could not tell you if it was actual or estimated.

    I would really like to see integration with the P3 & Vector, I think it would be a excellent combination for the price and give you the most ball data along with the club data from the P3 sensors. What do you guys think?

    Looking forward to following the thread!

  8. #8
    8 Iron netcam is on a distinguished road
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    Sorry to add another post.

    I wanted to comment on the PureLaunch Tracker, I have never seen that before, it looks interesting... as bubba said I would love to hear if anyone has had any experience with them.

  9. #9
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The purelaunch tracker looks very good. I spoke with the Zelocity folks today. I was told it was a 3d doppler device. It needs at least 13-15 feet for adequate ball flight for accuracy. It works with wireless bluetooth to your computer. They said they will be integrating with the p3pro.

    I am very interested with the Vector integration with the p3pro. I would guesse that the p3pro sensor mat would act as the trigger for the vector to start. The vector would certainly have less space requirements than the Zelocity and is probably more proven.

  10. #10
    8 Iron netcam is on a distinguished road
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    Interesting bubba! Did they give you any idea on cost or how it compares to a Vector, etc...?

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    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Vector around 3 grand (cheaper used on ebay).
    Zelocity Tracker around 4-5 grand.

  12. #12
    1puttwish
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    Hi, I just joined this group. I wanted to input on the Zelocity's PureLaunch Tracker. I've had it for a few months and it is a new product that seemed to me not ready to putt on the market. I encountered a few problems that kept me from using it with customers. However, it got better since they have come up with the most recent update. The accuracy is fair, but they still have one problem to fix, the club face angle at impact. It consequently gives a wrong shot type every now and then. They say it will be improved on the next update coming up shortly.
    If you know someone owning a PLT unit, please put me in contact with him or her, because I need to have feedback from other owners.
    Thank you

  13. #13
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    There have been lots of concerns with the Zelocity Pure launch with respect to its accuracy http://msgolf.wordpress.com/category/zelocity-posts/ and http://groups.google.com/group/zeloc...9a5813f2a0b270. The new Tracker looks promising as it is 3d radar technology but there have been very few reviews. I still think the Trackman or the Flightscope are the two proven radar based launch monitors however the Tracker does look good but the performance is going to be the question especially given the track record of their Pure launch. Does the unit measure the clubpath directly or is it estimated based on the ball data. If it is estimated then that is a simple software update. If it is directly measured then that may not be as easy a fix. Hopefully it works out alright.

  14. #14
    8 Iron kwantfm is on a distinguished road
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    I have read lots of conerns regarding Flightscope's club data accuracy. I'd appreciate anyone's feedback.

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    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The pro at my home club uses a flightscope and he is quite happy with it. I do think that the Trackman is the better unit but it is much pricier. The issues I have read about the Flightscope has been with club measurement especially the angle of attack. Other than that the ball data is quite assurate.

  16. #16
    8 Iron kwantfm is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    The pro at my home club uses a flightscope and he is quite happy with it. I do think that the Trackman is the better unit but it is much pricier. The issues I have read about the Flightscope has been with club measurement especially the angle of attack. Other than that the ball data is quite assurate.
    Thanks... angle of attack is not really that important to me but clubface angle and club path are. Do you have any comment on those two data points?

  17. #17
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    As far as what I have seen and read, the club data on the Flightscope is fairly accurate.

  18. #18
    1puttwish
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    Hi, Thanks for quick reply. Just to let anyone know that I tried the Pure Launch Tracker alongside with the P3Proswing, the data was congruous although some minor differences. The Tracker displays logical info regarding to what we actually hit. For teaching and fitting purposes, it is OK for me. I don't expect it to be Trackman like accurate but I expect it to display in the range of what is observed and what makes sense. And it does it. Also, there is integration with P3Pro possible, but have not gone further in that stream of inquiry.

  19. #19
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    The Tracker looks like a good unit. I do like the way it is set up. It is 3d compared to the original Purelaunch which is 2d. The Purelaunch has integration with the p3pro but only for the original software. The integration as far as I know doesn't work with the new GSA courses. Also the integration doesn't alter the shot pattern as far as I know. I don't think the Tracker has been integrated with the p3pro as of yet. Good to hear that the data of the Tracker was similair to the P3pro. What were the minor differences you found? You should inquire about the p3pro integration with the Tracker especially with the GSA courses.

  20. #20
    7 Wood dvshx is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba22 View Post
    I thought I would start a discussion on the various launch monitors. There is some good info on the gc2 which is basically a launch monitor that also can be utilized as a simulator for more entertainment. Launch monitors have the benefit of club and ball tracking including spin data that probably translates into more realistic simulation. Most home simulators just track the club (dd,p3pro) or club and ball (st1/pro7/GGS/ProTee) but estimate spin. How accurate these systems are is really a debate. I certainly think the launch monitors are more accurate as they collect more data.There are camera based, laser and 3d doppler based systems and you can debate which is better. The Doppler would seem to me better outdoors due to the fact that you can track a longer distance whereas indoors it is challanged. That is probably where the camera based systems such as the vector, gc2 would be better. Simulation play on these systems are difficult because of the putting and chipping difficulties.

    Questions are there any users that have a launch monitor? What are the best launch monitors for indoor use? Anybody have info on the purelaunch tracker http://zelocitytracker.com/. Are there any launch monitors besides the gc2 that can do simulation for entertainment ie play courses?

    I think that some of the sims over time may integrate with launch monitors to get the spin data that is missing. Certainly that would be a good marriage.
    my local dick's sporting goods has the zelocitytracker and it is not impressive. it does not read half of the time and it must be "armed" every 3 swings. the launch reading was dead accurate. i was hitting a 17 deg 4 wood and it was giving me a 16.9 launch.

  21. #21
    1puttwish
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    The minor differences were as following : 6 or 7 yards difference in carry distance, but same swing path and shot type. No radical differences from one shot to another.

  22. #22
    Moderator bubba22 is on a distinguished road bubba22's Avatar
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    Interesting dvshx. it does look more portable than their older unit however.

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