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  1. #1
    Major Poster EDSGOLF is on a distinguished road
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    Women in British Open

    Take a look at this, I wonder what Vijay is thinking:

    http://tsn.ca/golf/news_story.asp?id=81797
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  2. #2
    7 Iron owenb is on a distinguished road owenb's Avatar
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    He may not say much..as it says..if they qualify they would have to consider it. Most would not complain if the women qualified versus taking a sponsor's exemption.

  3. #3
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    If they qualify, I'm all for it. But, they should have to qualify the whole way through. No sponsor's exemptions in the qualifying events either. Make it tough but fair.

    Dan
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  4. #4
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Were you not around for the Suzy Whaley fiasco? She qualified and plenty of people complained.

  5. #5
    Hall of Fame NoBack is on a distinguished road NoBack's Avatar
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    She played from a forward set of tees, meaning she played a course 10 percent shorter than the men, at Ellington Ridge Country Club.
    http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/show...ht=Suzy+Whaley

    This from the other thread when she played in that event. So did she really qualify like the men??? :shake
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  6. #6
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Karam
    http://www.ottawagolf.com/forum/show...ht=Suzy+Whaley

    This from the other thread when she played in that event. So did she really qualify like the men??? :shake

    She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.

  7. #7
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69
    She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.
    She didn't qualify under the same set of rules as the men. There's a marked advantage to playing from the "reds". I've already voiced my opinion on cross-overs from women's sports to men's, so I won't bother you all with it again save to say that I only agree with women competing against the men if the PROCESS is equitable. None of this PR-driven bullcrap or political correctness stuff...

    If Wie can qualify from the back tees for the John Deere and/or the other qualifier for the British Open, all the more power to her. I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

    Dan
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  8. #8
    Birdie mr shank is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27
    I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

    Dan
    This is waaaaaaaaaaay too logical & insightful. In the future please have a knee-jerk reaction to topics like this.

  9. #9
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr shank
    This is waaaaaaaaaaay too logical & insightful. In the future please have a knee-jerk reaction to topics like this.
    Oops....

    Dan
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  10. #10
    Caddy powerlefty is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27
    She didn't qualify under the same set of rules as the men. There's a marked advantage to playing from the "reds". I've already voiced my opinion on cross-overs from women's sports to men's, so I won't bother you all with it again save to say that I only agree with women competing against the men if the PROCESS is equitable. None of this PR-driven bullcrap or political correctness stuff...

    If Wie can qualify from the back tees for the John Deere and/or the other qualifier for the British Open, all the more power to her. I've often wondered why we all deny an inequality between men and women, but have two classes of sport and different rules. To me that indicates an inequality, which isn't a bad thing. If we were all the same, we'd all be mediocre!

    Dan
    As I said last year when this was raging, rules were established, she played by the rules, she captured a spot in the PGA Tour's GHO by her performance in the local Connecticut PGA tournament (I think the previous year, i.e. 2002). If there was a flaw it was that the committee of that tournament did not specify only one set of tees was to be used and in fact allowed more than one set. By the way, she did not play from the "reds", she played from what would be the equivalent of the BLUES or even the TIPS at almost every course around here (except those with TIPS in the 7000 yard range such as Eagle Creek, The Marshes, etc). I seem to recall she played around 6500 YDS.

    I understand that particular tournament has now changed its rules - in order to qualify for the GHO through the local Connecticut PGA event the competitor must play from the same tees as everyone else.

    As for Michell Wie, I expect her to qualify for multiple events on the PGA Tour over the next several years so long as she keeps her parents a long ways away from her on the golf course!

  11. #11
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlefty
    As I said last year when this was raging, rules were established, she played by the rules, she captured a spot in the PGA Tour's GHO by her performance in the local Connecticut PGA tournament (I think the previous year, i.e. 2002). If there was a flaw it was that the committee of that tournament did not specify only one set of tees was to be used and in fact allowed more than one set. By the way, she did not play from the "reds", she played from what would be the equivalent of the BLUES or even the TIPS at almost every course around here (except those with TIPS in the 7000 yard range such as Eagle Creek, The Marshes, etc). I seem to recall she played around 6500 YDS.
    Wow, lighten up! I meant nothing of any offence or slight to this woman. My issue is with having two sets of rules, not against someone playing within either one. My comment about playing from the "reds" was somewhat of a mock comparison that most people who are in this forum can relate to, nothing more. You don't have to defend her....

    Cheers,
    Dan
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  12. #12
    Eagle Deep Woods is on a distinguished road
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    Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

    And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

    My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?

  13. #13
    Caddy powerlefty is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Woods
    Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

    And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

    My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?
    I do not believe there are any sponsors exemptions. There are many exemptions based on performance (i.e. placing in the top X on various money lists or in the top Y of certain tournaments, etc). as well as qualifying tournaments. The link below describes the process. The bottom line is you must play your way in either now or based on past tournaments somewhere. It is similar to the US Open criteria although it looks like the number of exemptions is greater and the exemptions are more international in flavour.

    http://www.opengolf.com/qualifying/i...qualifying.sps

  14. #14
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    She played by the rules which were set at the time and qualified by the rules which were set at the time...plain and simple. She accomplished something that none of us could do.

  15. #15
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27
    Wow, lighten up! I meant nothing of any offence or slight to this woman. My issue is with having two sets of rules, not against someone playing within either one. My comment about playing from the "reds" was somewhat of a mock comparison that most people who are in this forum can relate to, nothing more. You don't have to defend her....

    Cheers,
    Dan
    Dan,

    There was only one set of rules for the qualifier. Women played from this tee block, men from another. One set of rules, but from two tee blocks. With the controversy that ensued, future tournaments will be held from the same set of tee blocks.
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  16. #16
    5 Iron themob is on a distinguished road
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    So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?

    If you want to open the floodgates of people playing cross tours like that it has to go both ways.

    Now obviously special charity tournaments or skins game are free for all. But tournaments with trophys and prestige and tradition should be for the respective genders. I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.

  17. #17
    Hopelessly Addicted el tigre is on a distinguished road el tigre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?

    If you want to open the floodgates of people playing cross tours like that it has to go both ways.
    In case you hadn't noticed, men have a gender-based advantage over women in most athletic events. It's no different than events with different age brackets.

    Michelle Wie played in the US Women's Open this year - are you also suggesting that Annika Sorenstam be allowed to compete in the Junior Links tournament?

    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.
    Golf isn't any different. There is nothing preventing a women competing in the NHL, MLB, NBA or PGA if she is good enough to compete against men at that level. It wouldn't surprise me to see a women playing in the NHL one day (likely a goaltender), and Michelle Wie is already playing in selected PGA events.
    [COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]

  18. #18
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    So if women can play in male events, why cant male golfers play on the womens tour. If Vijay goes and qualifies for the US womens open or British open, can he play?
    The woman have their own tour...then men don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    I dont see any women in the NHL, MLB, NBA. They have their own leagues which is great. Golf shouldnt be any different.
    Again, those are not mens leagues...they are open to the best players, male or female. Clearly you don't remember Manon Rheaume, the female goaltender who played for Tampa Bay in '92-93.

  19. #19
    Andru
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69
    She qualified based on the rules and without using a sponsors exemption.
    Those rules have been tightened up so a Suzie Whaley can't walk in, play the short tees and end up the champion. If you want the spot in the PGA event you have to play the back tees.

    Basically saying yes she did qualify through a loop hole in the rules as they were written. Speaking for discussion sake. Did she qualify or prove she deserved the spot? I don't think so. Having the same set of qualifying rules for all players is the best way.

  20. #20
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    That's why it's called the British Open. It is open to all those who want to attempt to qualify. Same with the U.S. Open. Men, Women, old, young. As long as you meet the minimum handicap requirements for the qualifying rounds, you pay your money, you take your chances.

    Even the PGA is open to women if they want. You just need to be a Class "A" PGA of America teacher and get through the qualifying.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  21. #21
    5 Iron themob is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69
    The woman have their own tour...then men don't.


    Again, those are not mens leagues...they are open to the best players, male or female. Clearly you don't remember Manon Rheaume, the female goaltender who played for Tampa Bay in '92-93.
    Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

    Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

    If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

  22. #22
    Andru
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    I don't agree. The PGA tour and the mens tours are for the best golfers in the world be it man or woman. What's the big deal anyway?

    If a person qualifies for the event or tour under the same rules as everyone else. ( Not Suzie Whaley ) then they have the right to do so and the PGA, RAGC and all other governing bodies has the obligation to provide those opportunities.

    That's the greatest thing about golf. Thre's no free rides. You're rewarded for how well. you play. Stipulating that the best tours in the wolrd are for MEN only. Plays right into the very exclusionary policies golf is known for. Golf needs to grow the freak up.

    Yes there's a womens tour. Big deal. It's the best WOMEN in the world. The PGA, EuroPGA and the rest are for the best GOLFERS in the world. If Michelle Wie turns into the golfer she could be. Then she should and will compete against the best.

    Let's not talk about equality. LPGA tour event. 2 million dollar purse, PGA 5 million. If VJ didn't care about money and wanted to beat up on some inferior players he would become and amateur and compete in his local club championship. Come on!!! Really. One is a woman wanting test herself against the best. The other is some guy wanting to bully some inferior players. You have to be able to see the difference here.

  23. #23
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

    Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

    If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.

    That's a loaded argument. Your point only has validity if the sides are truly equal and balanced. They're not. If male and female athletes (or men and women in general, for that matter) we're being equally compensated for thier respective jobs, then you would probably see some crossover.

    Statistics don't lie. PGA Tour players hit it longer and score lower than thier LPGA counterparts. The idea is to pursue the highest level possible. They may look like they're playing the same game, but they're not, and if any person, man or woman, wants to try to qualify and compete, more power to them.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  24. #24
    Hopelessly Addicted el tigre is on a distinguished road el tigre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?
    You've missed the point. Neither the NHL nor the PGA have ever been men's leagues restricted to men only. They are for the best in the world at their sport, regardless of age, race, religion, nationality or GENDER. If you're good enough to compete at that level, you can play. It has always been that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.
    It is a well-established principle in all sports that players should try to compete at the highest level they can attain. It is also a well-established principle that lower-level leagues be allowed to have restrictions on the number (if any) of elite players that are allowed to play in their league. That is why junior players are allowed to compete at the professional levels but not vice versa. That is also why women are permitted to compete at PGA events (the elite level of golf) but not vice versa.

    What would it prove to allow Vijay to compete for your local club championship? Do you think this would be fair and equal?
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  25. #25
    Birdie mr shank is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by themob
    Women do have their own tour. Firstly, there is a big difference in age and sex. I never mentioned age. If a 17 year old(as i think Sergio was when he played his first tour event) can compete with other men, thats fine i guess. After all 17 year olds play in the NHL or NBA already.

    Manon Rheaume practiced with the team. Never played a real game. However there was NO WNHL back then. I'm glad to see professional womens sports leagues, but they are just that - womens leagues. Professional men's leagues should remain as they are and be men only. Why do you need women playing? Why should they be allowed to play if men can't play on their tour?

    If there was no pro female only leagues i would totally support females who can compete at the same levels as men out there doing so. I'm all for equality. As soon as its not equal(as is the case with Annika and Michelle playing in men's event, and say Adam Scott or Vijay not allowed to play on a WPGA event) then i have major problems. Nothing to do with their skills, everything to do with equality.
    Actually there are no 17 year olds in the NHL. You must be 18 to be drafted.
    Also, Manon Rheaume played only exhibition game(s) which was basically a publicity stunt, and a good one since Rheaume would have had trouble making most varsity teams.

  26. #26
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el tigre
    What would it prove to allow Vijay to compete for your local club championship? Do you think this would be fair and equal?
    It would be if he used left handed ladies clubs
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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  27. #27
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby
    It would be if he used left handed ladies clubs
    He'd still whoop us.

  28. #28
    Must be Single mberube is on a distinguished road mberube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Woods
    Are there sponsor exemptions for the B. Open ? If there are, its up to them who they invite...a capitalist system.

    And if shes not exempted, I'm sure (once she matures) well see some great golf out of her...enough to qualify in any men's event.

    My impression from the majors: it takes more than just talent, it takes a level of maturity (drive, awareness, experience, pressure management)...try to remember she's 14. What were you all doing at 14 ?
    I totally agree! She mist the cut by one shot in her last PGA tour event. At 14, It is very impressive female or male. I don't think Tiger came that close when he was an amateur.
    Strive for perfection, but never expect it!

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