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  1. #1
    NFL Guru fundonny is on a distinguished road fundonny's Avatar
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    Senators' Draft Pick

    Yay, we got a defenseman!!! Karlsson out of Sweden. Here are Pierre McGuire's comments:

    He was one of the fastest climbers on everyone's list - some had him as high as number five overall. He's the Swedish Brian Rafalski. You talk about patching holes, this patches a hole on defence for the Senators. Well done Ottawa, very good choice.
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  2. #2
    Hopelessly Addicted fireice is on a distinguished road fireice's Avatar
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    Looks like he's got another year in Sweden. Packs on some weight looks like a solid pick. Alfie introduced him

  3. #3
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    The best move the Sens made yesterday was to put Emery on waivers. I loved the fact that even the lowly Blues passed on him for Chris Mason.

    Now, my Leafs definitely made some noise yesterday by trading up 2 spots and grabbing Luke Schenn at #5. And now they have given permission to the Habs to talk to Sundin, with the promise of something(s) significant coming the other way if they manage to sign him before July 1.

    All in all, I think the Canadian teams made out really well on day one. Here's hoping for some more noise today.
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  4. #4
    Baxter
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    Quote Originally Posted by fundonny View Post
    Yay, we got a defenseman!!! Karlsson out of Sweden. Here are Pierre McGuire's comments:

    He was one of the fastest climbers on everyone's list - some had him as high as number five overall. He's the Swedish Brian Rafalski. You talk about patching holes, this patches a hole on defence for the Senators. Well done Ottawa, very good choice.
    Do you think Brown noser would say anything else???? I would love to know who had him as high as number 5?
    That player would have been around till maybe the 3rd round..He was ranked 71st Overall by Central Scouting and lower by International Scouting...Nice young hockey player but to take him at 15???..I guess I know why I don't make the big bucks......

    I would have taken a little less risk but of course still a risk. A young man that played Jr with the 67's, Tyler Cuma...He was taken 23rd by Min...My bad, I forgot, that might make some sense. Plus he's not a Euro, so forget that guy.....Central Scouting had him at 28
    He will get stronger and could be a solid 3 or 4 D'man on any team in the NHL.
    How about taking a flyer on a young man who has a few Brother's already in the NHL?? Mr.Jared Staal...What a steal for Gretzky and the Coyotes at 49th.

    O'well who can tell know any ways....At least we are back to hockey talk....I would like to stay away from the Boston 1st round pick, please...

  5. #5
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    Ooh, Pierre Mcquire thinks someone is awesome. What a shock. That guy is in love with every player he ever set his eye on. Every defenceman is a future Norris Trophy winner. Every goalie is going to be as good as Patrick Roy. Every forward is going to bring home the Art Ross.

    Ya, Karlsson is just what Ottawa needs. Another undersized (5'11 165lb) defenceman. That's really going to help Ottawa on the back end. They don't need size or toughness. Everyone knows their biggest problem was having too many solid stay at home defencemen. It would be foolish to add any more.
    In case anyone is wondering, here is a link to Mcquire's analysis of the first round picks:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=11513

    You'll notice that he has absolutely nothing bad to say about any picks. Every team made great selections, and all the first rounders are going to turn into awesome players

  6. #6
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bullis View Post
    Do you think Brown noser would say anything else???? I would love to know who had him as high as number 5?
    That player would have been around till maybe the 3rd round..He was ranked 71st Overall by Central Scouting and lower by International Scouting...Nice young hockey player but to take him at 15???..I guess I know why I don't make the big bucks......
    Third round eh?? Here's a quote from the Ottawa Sun today:

    The Senators moved up from the No. 15 spot in the draft because they were convinced that Anaheim was going to take D Erik Karlsson with the No. 17 selection

  7. #7
    Baxter
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    One can argue the point all they want..There would be no reason for that reporter to spin the Ottawa Sens draft as a good thing now would there??? ...Let me guess who wrote the RUMOR...Big Bruce??. I would bet a few bucks that there was no way in heck Bruke would draft a Euro that high..not to mention any young fellow that is under 6 foot and weighs 150 pounds to play defence.

    The Ducks 1st 3 picks - USA - USHS, Canadian - QMJHL, Canadian - OHL

    I hope someone asks him if it's true?

    Time will tell...Good Luck Sens Fans

  8. #8
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bullis View Post
    I would bet a few bucks that there was no way in heck Bruke would draft a Euro that high...
    Yeah, I guess they made that trade to get three spots ahead in the draft just for fun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Bullis View Post
    ...not to mention any young fellow that is under 6 foot and weighs 150 pounds to play defence.
    Umm, you do realize that these are 17-year old kids we're talking about, right? Or maybe you're just a Luke Richardson fan!

  9. #9
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    I love all you guys who think you know better than people who are hockey professionals (and I'll include myself in that bunch). Feel free to revive this thread in five to seven years when you can make a half-way decent judgment based on actual player performance.

    Has anyone one of us seen Karlsson play?

    No?

    Kind of hard to provide an informed opinion on a player when all you have to complain about is that he's Swedish and he's small.
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  10. #10
    Baxter
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    I guess the time will tell means nothing....only read and see what you want...Sens fans

  11. #11
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    Time will tell means nothing? I don't understand.

    If seven years from now a pick isn't performing to the level at which one might expect a 15th overall pick to perform, is it not then that you can say the pick wasn't the right one? I am interested to know how it is that you make these assertions with such conviction. Is there something you know that the rest of us don't?

    What if Luke Schenn turns out to be a bust? Consensus is that he's a can't miss stopper, a stud, a d-man you can build your team around, which is all well and good and I happen to think he's a great pick by the Leafs, but what if that doesn't happen?

    It just as easy to be jingoistic and laud the pick of a western Canadian boy who is of substantive stature as it is to pan the pick of a undersized European defenseman.
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  12. #12
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Hey, I think the Sens did just fine with the draft position they had. The kid was ranked #4 in the European depth chart. I would gladly take any player who has favourable comparisons to Brian Rafalski.

    Bob McKenzie said jokingly that his big shock of the draft was the fact that McGuire wasn't freaking out on any of the teams about their picks like he usually does, but they chalked that up to the overall depth of this year's draft. It was very hard for anyone to not get something of (percieved) quality in the first 30 picks.
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  13. #13
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Agreed. He was also the #1 rated European D-Man. It's a bit early to judge these picks. Lots of guys have been highly touted that have turned into complete busts (Daigle). Lots of others have been picked in later rounds that make outstanding NHLers (Alfredsson, Zetterburg).

    Let's wait a few years before judging the results of this draft.
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  14. #14
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Jack View Post
    I love all you guys who think you know better than people who are hockey professionals (and I'll include myself in that bunch). Feel free to revive this thread in five to seven years when you can make a half-way decent judgment based on actual player performance.

    Has anyone one of us seen Karlsson play?

    No?

    Kind of hard to provide an informed opinion on a player when all you have to complain about is that he's Swedish and he's small.
    I think the main point is that regardless of talent level, this kid is not what the Sens need right now. He does not have the size and strength they so desperately need at the back end. They've got big gaps to fill, and this kid does not do it.

  15. #15
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    I think the main point is that regardless of talent level, this kid is not what the Sens need right now. He does not have the size and strength they so desperately need at the back end. They've got big gaps to fill, and this kid does not do it.
    And they likely weren't going to get a guy in the draft at the 15th or 18th position who was going to fill that gap this year or next.

    They'll need to fill some holes for sure, but the draft isn't the place they will do that. 3-5 years from now it may and will likely be a different story.
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  16. #16
    Posting Sensei justsomeguy is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    I think the main point is that regardless of talent level, this kid is not what the Sens need right now. He does not have the size and strength they so desperately need at the back end. They've got big gaps to fill, and this kid does not do it.
    I would submit that size and strength at the back end ARE NOT what they so desperately need - and obviously not what the Sens coaches and management are looking for.

    Phillips and Volchenkov are big, strong guys, as were Luke Richardson and Mike Commodore. They can always move Schubert back if they think they desperately need more of that (and perhaps they're already planning to). They went BIG on defence last year and it clearly didn't work - teams just dumped the puck in and the Sens defence couldn't clear the zone.

    The kind of player they have been looking for is a puck-moving defenceman who can quarterback the power-play - i.e., someone to do what Wade Redden was supposed to do. The guy they REALLY want is Brian Campbell, who is not much bigger than the kid they just drafted.

  17. #17
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    I think the main point is that regardless of talent level, this kid is not what the Sens need right now. He does not have the size and strength they so desperately need at the back end. They've got big gaps to fill, and this kid does not do it.
    Most teams pick the best player available rather than try to fill a specific need through the draft, primarily because most 18 year-olds aren't ready to step in and play right away that year, or the year after they are drafted. By the time they are ready to step in, the specific need you had two years ago has likely past.
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  18. #18
    Baxter
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Jack View Post
    Time will tell means nothing? I don't understand.

    If seven years from now a pick isn't performing to the level at which one might expect a 15th overall pick to perform, is it not then that you can say the pick wasn't the right one? I am interested to know how it is that you make these assertions with such conviction. Is there something you know that the rest of us don't?

    What if Luke Schenn turns out to be a bust? Consensus is that he's a can't miss stopper, a stud, a d-man you can build your team around, which is all well and good and I happen to think he's a great pick by the Leafs, but what if that doesn't happen?

    It just as easy to be jingoistic and laud the pick of a western Canadian boy who is of substantive stature as it is to pan the pick of a undersized European defenseman.
    Nothing in life is easy.....relax enjoy the summer have a few meatballs and a beer.

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  19. #19
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    I didn't know I was making it difficult?
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  20. #20
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
    I would submit that size and strength at the back end ARE NOT what they so desperately need - and obviously not what the Sens coaches and management are looking for.

    Phillips and Volchenkov are big, strong guys, as were Luke Richardson and Mike Commodore. They can always move Schubert back if they think they desperately need more of that (and perhaps they're already planning to). They went BIG on defence last year and it clearly didn't work - teams just dumped the puck in and the Sens defence couldn't clear the zone.

    The kind of player they have been looking for is a puck-moving defenceman who can quarterback the power-play - i.e., someone to do what Wade Redden was supposed to do. The guy they REALLY want is Brian Campbell, who is not much bigger than the kid they just drafted.
    I certainly beg to differ on that analysis. If you look at the last 3 months of the season, what was their biggest problem? Atrocious defensive zone coverage. While it would be nice to get a Brian Campbell, their problem was a completely inept defensive corps, that was unable to clear the front of the net and make the simplest of defensive plays. Before the Sens worry about having a puck moving defenceman, they need to find some defenceman who can just move the puck out of the zone.

  21. #21
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    I certainly beg to differ on that analysis. If you look at the last 3 months of the season, what was their biggest problem? Atrocious defensive zone coverage. While it would be nice to get a Brian Campbell, their problem was a completely inept defensive corps, that was unable to clear the front of the net and make the simplest of defensive plays. Before the Sens worry about having a puck moving defenceman, they need to find some defenceman who can just move the puck out of the zone.
    Aside from getting Luke Schenn, who was a top five pick, or any of the other four d-men that went in the top five, who would you have chosen at 18 (or at 15 as it turned out) who could step in next year and do the job you're describing?

    You have to be realistic and take the best player available at the spot your in. As mentioned earlier, the need you have today, may not be the need you have in two or three years when, if all goes well, the drafted player is ready to step in.
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  22. #22
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    Well, there were two defenders who I would have rather the Sens picked who went later in the first round: Cuma (23) and Carlson (27). Both do more to fit the bill as solid defensive defencemen. At 23, Cuma went quite low, could easily have gone higher, and would have been a good fit (even played his junior in Ottawa).

  23. #23
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonf View Post
    Well, there were two defenders who I would have rather the Sens picked who went later in the first round: Cuma (23) and Carlson (27). Both do more to fit the bill as solid defensive defencemen. At 23, Cuma went quite low, could easily have gone higher, and would have been a good fit (even played his junior in Ottawa).
    Ok, cool. It will be interesting to see how both Cuma and Carlson, and Ericksson fare over the next five to seven years. Question though - do you take the more talented player for the longer haul, or do you draft for immediate need that could be filled via free agency or trade?

    Perhaps Cuma or Carlson could step in two years from now and become that stopper you're looking for, but perhaps Ericksson puts on 25-30 lbs - for argument sake let's settle on 20 lbs. If he follows the designated training and meal plans, completely reasonable for a still-growing athlete. Then, put an inch or two onto him and all of a sudden he's 6ft 1 and 185. Certainly not large, but if he's as skilled a puck mover as we've read, then plenty big enough.

    One only needs to look at the Brian Lee selection - panned by many at the time for taking a skinny skilled defenseman - he was arguably - check that, he was Ottawa's best defenseman in the playoffs. While that's not saying much for the rest of Ottawa's defense, it shows that we're best to leave the scouting and the drafting to those who are paid well for it.
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  24. #24
    Gotta Post 3Jack is on a distinguished road 3Jack's Avatar
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    Also, don't forget that the scouting bureaus all had Ericksson moving up from the mid-sixties in the rankings to the low 20s. There had to be a reason for it. If this were a leaner year - all we hear is that this is / was the strongest / deepest draft in recent memory, he could have been even higher.
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  25. #25
    Par moochie is on a distinguished road moochie's Avatar
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    My buddy and I were on a patio on Elgin street last Saturday and he and his dad walked by. His dad stopped to talk. A few observations:
    1. Very nice family (even though we were pie eyed).
    2. If he is 165, he is all muscle. Looked about 180.
    3. His dad is a big cat. Hopefully, genetics kick in.

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