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  1. #1
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Spinefinding with a bearingtype spinefinder

    Do you believe that the shaft behaves this way during the swing?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8fOEnprofIM

    I personally do not suscribe to the theory as the hands act as a clamp and will not allow the shaft to rotate.

    I do however suscribe to the following:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=oncXSFLR5RE&feature=related

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=7NVu4BqRFTQ&feature=related
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
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  2. #2
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chieflongtee View Post
    Do you believe that the shaft behaves this way during the swing?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8fOEnprofIM

    I personally do not suscribe to the theory as the hands act as a clamp and will not allow the shaft to rotate.

    I do however suscribe to the following:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=oncXSFLR5RE&feature=related

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=7NVu4BqRFTQ&feature=related
    It seems that these bearing spine finders have been around since before we built the NF1, NF2 and then you built your NF4. It is truly, OLD "technology." FLOing is so much easier and accurate to boot.

    The 2nd YouTube video sure shows why many of the stock OEM shafts are junk.

  3. #3
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    OLD "technology."
    Yet a whole bunch of folks still swear by it.
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
    Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #4
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Back at it.

  5. #5
    Arrow shooter Chieflongtee is on a distinguished road Chieflongtee's Avatar
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    Just a word of caution about these 2 videos. In both instances it is suggested to get a new shaft which is really not necessary(unless you really want to try something else) All shafts can be puleed out FLO oriented for optimal performance.
    Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.
    Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #6
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3 View Post
    From Dave's notes, I guess this means that Bernie Baymiller's method of aligning the NBP or S1 to the cg of the club head is not only unnecessary, but results in a misaligned shaft.

  7. #7
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    From Dave's notes, I guess this means that Bernie Baymiller's method of aligning the NBP or S1 to the cg of the club head is not only unnecessary, but results in a misaligned shaft.
    An email discussion I had with Dave seemed to imply that he is essentially unsure where the spine should be aligned. This seems to be a result of not being entirely sure what the spine or NBP is really doing during impact.

    I think what would need to be done next is to run the TT shaftlab analysis on a shaft with a nice observable spine to get an idea of its effect on "toe droop" etc.

    Essentially repeat the graphs at the end of section (5) on
    http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab3.php?ref=
    but with different spine alignments.


    Based on the shaftlab charts, I think that the NBP might be best served at a 45 angle to the target path (or whatever your personal angle is) ... that way "toe droop" and "shaft kick" combination will have the "softest" part of the to work against and the bending of the shaft would be "buttressed" on either side by the spine ... path of least resistance kind of thing ... possibly increase consistency ... but that is just my crazy theory and it wouldn't really matter with the newer really small spine shafts.
    Back at it.

  8. #8
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3 View Post
    An email discussion I had with Dave seemed to imply that he is essentially unsure where the spine should be aligned. This seems to be a result of not being entirely sure what the spine or NBP is really doing during impact.

    I think what would need to be done next is to run the TT shaftlab analysis on a shaft with a nice observable spine to get an idea of its effect on "toe droop" etc.

    Essentially repeat the graphs at the end of section (5) on
    http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab3.php?ref=
    but with different spine alignments.


    Based on the shaftlab charts, I think that the NBP might be best served at a 45 angle to the target path (or whatever your personal angle is) ... that way "toe droop" and "shaft kick" combination will have the "softest" part of the to work against and the bending of the shaft would be "buttressed" on either side by the spine ... path of least resistance kind of thing ... possibly increase consistency ... but that is just my crazy theory and it wouldn't really matter with the newer really small spine shafts.
    After all the work done on what the best alignment is, we now have NBP to target, S1 to target, NBP 45* to target and NBP/S1 to cg of head.

    Of course, we could just demand that a shaft FLO's in all directions. I did an Accuflex VS339 yesterday and it did just that, so I am going to align the NBP to the North Star.

    Tutelman's work is fascinating.

  9. #9
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    After all the work done on what the best alignment is, we now have NBP to target, S1 to target, NBP 45* to target and NBP/S1 to cg of head.

    Of course, we could just demand that a shaft FLO's in all directions. I did an Accuflex VS339 yesterday and it did just that, so I am going to align the NBP to the North Star.

    Tutelman's work is fascinating.
    If you use the FAS-Fit system you can realign depending on which way the first tee box faces. ;-)
    Back at it.

  10. #10
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    ....Tutelman's work is fascinating.
    My e-discussion with Dave was actually on whether or not the spine is straight down the shaft or does it move depending on the beam length of the shaft tested (I hadn't seen anything mentioned on the web). i.e. spine at 0 at the butt of the shaft but closer to the tip the spine is no longer at 0.
    AND
    What effect would this have?

    Dave's answers (in a nutshell):
    - Yes, the spine alignment changes along the shaft.
    - No, I don't think the tip spine would have much effect ..... [1 day later and an even longer email] ... upon further reflection I think that more analysis needs to be done and we need to solidify what spine alignment is doing at impact.

    I am so glad that Dave is out there doing this work, because it would be driving my "I gotta know/sciencey" mind crazy. I am even happier that he responds to my emails.
    Back at it.

  11. #11
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3 View Post
    I am so glad that Dave is out there doing this work, because it would be driving my "I gotta know/sciencey" mind crazy. I am even happier that he responds to my emails.
    It is certainly the Wishon's, Tutelman and Kauffman's of the world that help keep us informed as to what is actually real versus much of the marketing BS that is inflicted upon us. Add to that the fact that they take the time to personally respond to our inquiries, shows how much they really care. I emailed TWGT a couple of weeks ago about something and the response was from Tom himself. Very much appreciated.

    While I would love to have a "I gotta know/sciencey" mind, I have to be satisfied with a "I gotta know" one.

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