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  1. #1
    Lob Wedge Codfodder is on a distinguished road Codfodder's Avatar
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    Here is a doozie! Any ideas?

    18th hole match play............Par 5

    Playing against a 2 HDCP, I was 10 at the time. I was 80 yds out after 2 shots and the other guy was under a tree 100 yds back..........with no swing..........unless he climbs the tree.

    So, we have a local rule with certain trees with ribbons. So the guy is a righty and has no play on the original ball..............then he decides to swing left handed and put the toe down.....k, he can get a piece. But, ONLY when swinging left handed he can reach a ribbon tree and get relief.........

    He takes the ball from under the tree and gets relief.............then he switches around and hit right handed.

    a) Is this legal..........cuz he says he seen it on TV and he is a 2 HDCP so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

    b) Maybe this is legal in stoke, I felt it was immorral in match.......

    Any ideas on the ruling?

    Oh..........I made a shakey 4 ft putt for 5 and halved the hole for a 1 up win.
    [I][COLOR=royalblue]"95% of the putts that don't make it to the hole.............won't go in"[/COLOR][/I]

  2. #2
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    He did see it on TV a few years back (the PGA Tour)...can't remember the player though.

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Assuming the local rule is defined correctly he would probably get relief under 24-2. However, note the following exception, especially the (b) part.

    Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.

    In the absence of a rules official he should have played two balls and you should have gotten a ruling after the match.

  4. #4
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Rule 24-2 Relief from immovable obstruction.

    Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.

  5. #5
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    My only idea is this - don't play with him again.

  6. #6
    Im a fixture here Pinshark is on a distinguished road Pinshark's Avatar
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    doesnt seem fair to me.
    PinShark
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  7. #7
    Monday Qualifier Started2k3 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAA
    Rule 24-2 Relief from immovable obstruction.

    Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.
    Lefty stances always seem unnecessarily abnormal to me.
    Back at it.

  8. #8
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Started2k3
    Lefty stances always seem unnecessarily abnormal to me.
    I believe in Canada we (lefties) are the majority.

  9. #9
    I'm a regular em69 is on a distinguished road em69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codfodder
    He takes the ball from under the tree and gets relief.............then he switches around and hit right handed.
    I was just thinking...

    Could you not get relief from the tree if you are considering to hit it sideways (or backwards). The tree is in your way, so you take relief, then hit it in the direction of the green??

    Seems like the same concept as switching from right to left handed and back to right.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by em69
    Could you not get relief from the tree if you are considering to hit it sideways (or backwards). The tree is in your way, so you take relief, then hit it in the direction of the green??

    Seems like the same concept as switching from right to left handed and back to right.
    It all comes down to whether or not the stance/swing/direction of play is deemed to be "unnecessarily abnormal".

    It's not uncommon to hit out sideways or backwards, so most people wouldn't have a problem with that. Switching sides is a little more extreme which is why there's debate.

  11. #11
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codfodder
    18th hole match play............Par 5

    Playing against a 2 HDCP, I was 10 at the time. I was 80 yds out after 2 shots and the other guy was under a tree 100 yds back..........with no swing..........unless he climbs the tree.

    So, we have a local rule with certain trees with ribbons. So the guy is a righty and has no play on the original ball..............then he decides to swing left handed and put the toe down.....k, he can get a piece. But, ONLY when swinging left handed he can reach a ribbon tree and get relief.........

    He takes the ball from under the tree and gets relief.............then he switches around and hit right handed.

    a) Is this legal..........cuz he says he seen it on TV and he is a 2 HDCP so I give him the benefit of the doubt.

    b) Maybe this is legal in stoke, I felt it was immorral in match.......

    Any ideas on the ruling?

    Oh..........I made a shakey 4 ft putt for 5 and halved the hole for a 1 up win.
    What exactly did the local rule say? This would determine how he was supposed to proceed. If you were unsure or thought that his interpretation of the rule was wrong, you should have informed him that you were making a claim aginst his decision (Rule 2-5). This would have covered your butt in the absence of an official, until you could check with the committee after the round. In this case it was a moot point since you won the match anyway, but it might not work out that way next time.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  12. #12
    Lob Wedge Codfodder is on a distinguished road Codfodder's Avatar
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    Clarification on local rule

    Any tree under 6 feet or tied with a red ribbon is deemed to be free relief from swing and stance.

    The ball came to rest under an evergreen where no relief would be granted if he took his normal right handed stance.

    So he took a left handed stance and still 1% chance of hitting the ball ........ forget advancing. However; approachin gfrom the wrong side (left) a little tree interfered with his swing. He is entitled to relief in a left hand position.

    When he took approriate relief, he swithced around and hit right. Then hit the green. I thought if he was going to take relief from a left handed stance, he should have to play his relief shot that way.

    Seems totally legal. However; I can't bring myself to use it on the course...ie Cart Paths.

    Your ball is on a tough lie but the cart path is not in play....so do you decide to hit it left handed and stand on the cart path........take relief and turn around and hit it from the right side again?

    mmmmmmm?
    [I][COLOR=royalblue]"95% of the putts that don't make it to the hole.............won't go in"[/COLOR][/I]

  13. #13
    Founder Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    If there is somethng preventing you from hitting it right handed then it would be reasonable to hit it lefty. A bad lie alone would not force a player to use a left hand swing, but a ball next to a tree that inhibits the right hand swing would.

    Once you take relief you are not bound to the conditions that got you the relief, ie left handed shot. What he did sounds correct.

    I can't bring myself to use it on the course
    Why not? It's legal and a smart play by a knowlegable player. Gawd knows enough rules go against us it's nice there are a few that can help us out sometimes.

  14. #14
    Lob Wedge Codfodder is on a distinguished road Codfodder's Avatar
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    Thanks

    Well, I now have complete grasp of the rule. Thanks for the clarification.
    [I][COLOR=royalblue]"95% of the putts that don't make it to the hole.............won't go in"[/COLOR][/I]

  15. #15
    "Richard"
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    you won, no harm done!

  16. #16
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    you won, no harm done!
    What's this "Richard" nonsense?

  17. #17
    "Richard"
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    Dan mentioned my name to an indian person he was playing golf with that was actually going to advertise on his website but after hearing dan say the word "thotho" the guy picked up the ball and left. Cost dan about 60k in revenue so the name is no longer. He told me he was considering banning me but it wasn't my fault since I told him what it meant ages ago... so hence the name change

  18. #18
    Got My Card zoic is on a distinguished road zoic's Avatar
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    LOL, so why is it still in your signature.
    [COLOR=DarkRed]"Friends don't let friends use Internet Explorer"

    [/COLOR]Kevin

  19. #19
    "Richard"
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoic
    LOL, so why is it still in your signature.
    He said it was ok, said it would cause the board a lot of confusion if there was a poster named richard no one had heard of and has almost 2500 posts out of no where. He said it was ok to keep there until everyone knew that my new name is richard but also said that anyone refering to me as "TO" instead of "RICHARD" will get banned on their 3rd warning

  20. #20
    Founder Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    Pure thread-jacking fiction.

  21. #21
    "Richard"
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    ass you can see... has been added to the banned word list now

  22. #22
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank
    Once you take relief you are not bound to the conditions that got you the relief, ie left handed shot.
    True, but in taking relief he is required to take it based on the left-handed stance that he would have used when the obstruction interfered. Rule 13-2 may come into play as well, regarding a possible improvement of his line of play.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  23. #23
    "Richard"
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    ok I remember gary answered this question along time ago...

    It is unreasonable for me to swing left handed at a ball because I have enough problems hitting right handed thank you very much. But if Vijay singh did it, it is reasonable and he would get relief because he is a low capper left handed (amazing). If you pretend you are going to hit left handed just to get relief then you are breaking a rule of golf and might as well just pick up your ball, move it away from the tree and play the shot right handed... its the same thing.

  24. #24
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvincent
    It all comes down to whether or not the stance/swing/direction of play is deemed to be "unnecessarily abnormal".

    It's not uncommon to hit out sideways or backwards, so most people wouldn't have a problem with that. Switching sides is a little more extreme which is why there's debate.
    I would consider that a rightie hiiting left handed towards a tree would be abnormal

  25. #25
    Forum Idiot Indio is on a distinguished road Indio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Kilbank
    Pure thread-jacking fiction.
    BUT, entertaining and quickly invented
    Proud member of the 2009 OG/TGN Ryder Cup Champions

  26. #26
    Forum Idiot Indio is on a distinguished road Indio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    ass you can see... has been added to the banned word list now

    ROFLMAO&PMP!!! WTG Dan!
    Proud member of the 2009 OG/TGN Ryder Cup Champions

  27. #27
    Par Kiwi battler is on a distinguished road
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    I was going to say he was quite withen his rights to do what he did , but then you added that advancing the ball wasnt going to happen , or even that hitting it lefthanded was 1% .....then NO ....thats an abnormal stroke
    Had there been a reasonable chance he could have advanced the ball lefthanded and assuming it was the most reasonable stroke to play THEN if the ribboned tree interferred with stance or swing , he'd be entitled to relief for the lefthanded shot.....then he could change back to right handed and quite possibly get further relief from the same ribboned tree , which could well improve his line of play , which would be allowed and most fortunate lol

    In gaining free relief under 24-2 you DONT get line of flight relief AND your drop will be withen 1 clublength of the NEAREST POINT OF RELIEF not the nicest point
    So its quite likely youd be dropping in bush or on the nasty side of a safety fence
    Playing 2 balls as mentioned above isnt an option in matchplay as far as I know

  28. #28
    England Golf Referee AAA is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi battler
    Playing 2 balls as mentioned above isnt an option in matchplay as far as I know
    I can't see the statement you refer to but you are correct, playing two balls (Rule 3-3) does not apply to matchplay.

  29. #29
    1 Iron Tanglegrip is on a distinguished road Tanglegrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codfodder
    So he took a left handed stance and still 1% chance of hitting the ball ........ forget advancing.
    Chances should be a lot better than 1%, or maybe I'm just very skilled. Had a similar situation a couple of rounds ago. Ball under a small tree (but no stake or ribbon ), just no way to get at it using a right handed stance. Took a left handed stance, used the toe of a 5 iron and advanced the ball (but only about 5 yards) towards the fairway.

    The shot was still better than taking an unplayable because of other trees around and wasn't that difficult to execute. Just have to practice the shot a little to see if I can get more distance next time.

  30. #30
    Founder Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    I do practice that shot and have used it many times. It can be a life saver. One we should all have at least an idea how to hit. Practice is the only way to learn it. The face angle that sends the ball forward looks very strange. My odds on that shot are 80% that I can hit it and move it forward 10 - 50 yards. Controlling it is another matter altogether. It is a very reasonable shot in the circumstance described.

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