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Just curious to find out how many people on this forum have ever been fitted by a clubmaker/clubfitter? If yes did that make a big difference in your game? If no why not? Not talking about an occasional shaft change but a full clubfitting session involving launch monitor,swing speed, grip sizing etc..
nope. don't have the money
Yep. Always.
That was fast. How much do you think a fitting session goes for?Quote:
nope. don't have the money
It's sad to say but no, I had not had a fitting prior to the start of my Clubbuilding days. Since I started taking courses I have been fit several times, once made me realize that I was actually decelerating at the ball - too early of a release.
My second fitting I began to realize the importance of lie angle and directional control due to the correct or incorrect lie angle. Length is a no brainer - they have to fit you and you alone.
Now, my opinion on fitting is that this is one of the single most important issues a golfer can do tho help improve his or her game. Lengths and lies - must be set correctly or you loose accuracy and feel. Lessons help fix the swing mechanics.
Proper fit clubs - then lessons - great match.
danscustom, I agree with you that properly fitted clubs are important. But I have to disagree with your order. If someone plans on taking lessons, take your lessons until you groove a somewhat repeatable swing. If you're a beginner, go get fitted for clubs, then take lessons you'll probably have to get fitted again. Most likely your angle of attack into the ball will improve, your clubhead speed may improve. All of these will factor into different measurements for a fitting. Because I know when I first started playing I had to change my lies a few times as my posture and swing path changed and improved. I even upped to s-flex shafts from r-flexes once my swing improved. I would've hated to have spend a fortune on fitted clubs, worked at my game and then had to get fitted again. I bought a cheap starter set, practiced, practiced and practiced, then upgraded to a better set with the proper lies for me.
But if you are a player happy with your game, by all means get fitted and go out and enjoy the game. :thumbsup
i usually get fitted every year, incase anything changes... and if something so wrong mid season ill go back and get fitted again. its a real confidence booster knowing that those clubs are tuned to your and only your specs :D
Sorry Geoff, but I have to respond.
If you learn on clubs that are ill fitted to you then you learn habits that get instilled by these improperly fit clubs. If a shaft is too long, this forces a lie angle error, causing the golfer to compensate in their swing. If the feel is too heavy you develope release problems. etc. etc.
A properly fit set will put the player in the correct address position, giving them the opportunity to develope sound swing techniques.
Yes there is always a chance you will need an adjustment after the lessons, but it will be minor.
My pro - who plays my clubs and Technology was a believer in lessons first, until I had some time to work with her, now she sends the client to me first.
She played with ill fitted clubs - fit by a world renowned fitter who will remain nameless - After being forced to play a giant draw, caused by the equipment, she now has had to re-teach herself into correct swing habits with a set that now fits. She has never hit the ball better. She told me this.
Its like learning to drive a car with a seat thats way too low, you make adjustments, but you still stand a greater chance of crashing.
I cannot emphasize this enough.
I agree with Dan on this one. How could you learn a good swing with poorly fitted clubs?
Funny you ask, Chief; I was just fitted for irons and woods at Swing Sync two days ago, on Valentine’s Day (thanks again, Mr. K). I got the whole wrist-to-floor, hand size, frequency matching, and was surprised to hear I am at the top of the bell curve for women’s swing speeds (67-69). I had no idea. I thought I was slow!
Eric Cook is amazing at what he does and all those years of experience he brought to my fitting session humbles me. As we were leaving he told me I had a nice looking swing. :) I was just floating Valentine’s day. I’ll be getting my new KZG irons and woods in about two weeks. Wootness! I am still a relative beginner only having played 20 rounds ever (!) so they’ll be cast and we’ll save forged for the future.
Happy V-day honey! :couple:
Well, I figure that the analysis is probably between 50 to 100, depending on who's doing it, and how many clubs I'm getting analysed. And then, if the changes are actually significant, I assume that I'll be spending at least another 200 to 300 on making those changes (at least).Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieflongtee
KZG's are nice sticks. Don't worry about going to forged. It's playability that will be your friend. Sounds like your fitter / builder knows his stuff.
Good Luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent 99
Lessons before clubfitting. There's no point in getting fitted for clubs when you've got a crappy, ever-changing swing. Also, if you have limited money to spend on golf, 300 dollars on lessons is better spent than 300 dollars on clubfitting. You can get fitted, but you will still have no idea how to swing the club. If, on the other hand, you take some lessons and improve your swing, you have a solid building block for years of golfing. You can always get fitted at a later date. Starting with at least some idea how to swing the club properly is invaluable. I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way, but someone who is shooting consistently over 100 usually has a fairly unsound swing, with some pretty glaring weaknesses, that simply cannot be corrected by changing the length and lie angle of their clubs (and yes, I know there is more to clubfitting than that). It makes the game a lot more fun if you can see an improvement in your game, and know that it was because you worked hard to change something.
The only proper foundation for good golf is a good swing.
In Agent 99's case she hit the range a bunch of times and played 5 rounds or so with off the rack clubs. She decided she wanted to get into the game, so we got her an inexpensive fitted set with the length, lie and grip measured. She then had the winter membership at the OAC last winter, and improved significantly. She is pretty much hooked, so I figured it was time to get a frequency matched set for her. She can now progress with confidence that the sticks will not be in the way of her learning.
Granted, another fitting and set is in her future, but I feel this is a much better approach than fiddling around with trading out OTR sticks looking for the magic wands.
My two cents on this.
Even for a beginner, it is a good idea to get fitted to start.
A first fitting is probably going to be mostly "physical", i.e. based on wrist to floor measurements, etc. Once that is done and the person starts to develop some basic skills it makes more sense to do an advanced fitting.
Maybe I should be clear here. I definitely don't question the value of clubfitting. But in terms of equipment, there is no magic wand, off the rack or otherwise. I just think the first priority of any golfer should be the swing. If, after they have a solid swing, they choose to get a clubfitting, that is ideal. But, given a choice between the two, I would take lessons first any day.
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent
My point isn't for day 1 to go get a set of fitted sticks. Yes, you do have to have some knowledge of the swing prior to investing hard earned money. I guess I am refering to people who have played for a short while, decided the game is something they enjoy, and want to get better. Nothing wrong with going for a partial lesson at this point - but - If you go for full lessons with clubs that do not fit you are instilling habits that will cause poor ballflight.
I've had local teachers tell there students to go get there clubs altered as it is difficult to develope a good swing with clubs that are too long, short, wrong lie, wrong grip size etc.
As Tiger grew his dad always made sure the clubs fit - every year, so as to not develope poor swing habits caused by clubs that did not fit. Different league, yes, but I agree with this method regardless of who you are.
As your swing developes you adapt to your clubs. If your clubs do not produce the right trajectory you begin to compensate.
My game struggled for 25 years with 'non fitted clubs'. After I learned the importance of length and lie, not only did my swing self improve, but my scores also began to reflect that.
I am a big believer in lessons, please don't get me wrong, but we just simply disagree on the order.
I will be returning to lessons again this year, but with clubs that fit, just like the person teaching the lesson.
My wife gave me a fitting session in Calgary as a Christmas present several years ago. It involved everything you listed above. As I remember, it cost about $125.00. I did not pursue getting a set of irons built, as the cost was way more than I could afford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieflongtee
Maybe I am giving too much credit to the pros, but I would hope that they focus on a good overall swing, rather than one that will give the best immediate results. I will agree that one who focusses on immediate results will not help if you're clubs are improperly fitted.
I do remember that when I went for my one and only lesson, I was about thirteen, and the first thing that the pro had be do was choke down about an inch on my clubs...helped enormously. Certainly that kind of adjustment will be very useful for a beginner (but does it really require customization?).
I may also, at this point, just be one of the lucky ones who fits off-the-rack clubs well, and may therefore underestimate the value of a fitting. I have certainly seen people set up to the ball with the toe of the club well above the ground, obviously in need of a fitting. One person I played with regularly was really tall, and always looked uncomfortable playing his off-the-rack clubs...Its not easy to choke UP on a club. Granted, I have only had 3 sets, but I have found that they have all felt comfortable and set me up in a relatively good starting position. Maybe I'm just lucky.
One local clubmaker here had a launch monitor session special before the holidays for $40. Granted it was not a full fitting session but a whole bunch of valuable information was handed out such as swing speed ,launch angle, face angle at impact etc.etc. That particular clubfitter was one of the kindest person I have ever met and was very generous of his time and knowledge and at no point did I feel that I was being taken to the cleaners.
How much do the actual adjustments cost? What does it cost to get the lie angles on all 8 irons changed? What about regripping a whole set with smaller or larger grips (that one is harder to answer, I know, but lets assume the grips are 3 dollars each). What about reducing the length of the iron shafts? I'd like to get a better idea for these things (to see if I can actually afford to do this). And of course, this assumes that my existing shafts are suitable for my swing and that I don't have to go out and replace everything.
Three years ago I went to my first golf school. One of the pros suggested a club fit/launch monitor session in the spring just before I bought my new clubs. Up until then I was using my son's clubs, which were more up to date than my Golden Bear (1974) clubs. I tried a variety of club makes and settled on the TM R5 D driver with the stock stiff shaft. I had already set my mind on the TM RAC OS. The pro did the length, lie, grip measurements and I took them to a local retailer and had the clubs "custom" made. Just had my lie angle checked again this year at the school and they are still bang on. I suspect that once I'm due for another driver I will make some changes to the loft and shaft but for now they are good enough for me. It is hard to know what has caused my improvement, regular play, the coaching or the clubs but if nothing else it is comforting to know that the clubs I play with were created for me. For all the things we (forum members do) to try and improve, the cost of a fitting is a small amount with potentially a great return, in confidence, if not score... IMO
Loft and Lie angle changes are normally around $5 / club.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonf
Shortening $5, Lenthen $8 Reshafts could be$15 - $40 + shaft cost depending on who does it?? Regripping $3-6 + grip?
These are just random examples without any fitting costs and are not the same depending on who does the work. Fitting prices can vary largely, where some will fit as part of the package, or just charge target rates.
I think if your swing is constant and you repeat it almost every swing that it is worth the money. I have been fitted for the first time this year and learned a lot about clubs if nothing else.The proof will be when i get out there and play a few rounds.
Quote:
How much do the actual adjustments cost? What does it cost to get the lie angles on all 8 irons changed? What about regripping a whole set with smaller or larger grips (that one is harder to answer, I know, but lets assume the grips are 3 dollars each). What about reducing the length of the iron shafts? I'd like to get a better idea for these things (to see if I can actually afford to do this). And of course, this assumes that my existing shafts are suitable for my swing and that I don't have to go out and replace everything.
IMO getting fitted will end up being cheaper in the long run than trial and error. I understand you being tight on a budget being a student. There are a couple things you can perform yourself for free though if you can't afford the full fitting process such as lie test,grip sizing and wrist to floor.Reshafting if needed to be done would be your biggest cost. Dancustom pretty much summed up the actual costs but you can easily learn to regrip your clubs or look for a 2 for 1 regripping sale and you can also shop around for these services.
Thanks Dan. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustom
It's funny how some guys have no problem getting the latest/greatest driver off the rack for 500.00-700.00,but worry about how much a clubfitter will charge for a fitting:rolleyes Myself,this year..i'm getting the complete a-z fitting:thumbsup followed by another round of lessons.
Chief, I've never been fitted but have tried many times to take lessons to fix 'problems' the most frequent to try and gain some distance. I just can't hit an irn for any distance at all. (ie. my PW is about 90 yds and my SW is about 75 at best)
Like the majority of golfers, I turned to the technology to fix my game and although I am a resonably descent golfer (now 11 cap) I still can't hit for distance if my life depended on it. The only technology that has helped me was the R7 Bugsy bought me for Xmas a few years ago. I was a terrible slicer, I set that sucker up for a full hook and I know hit the ball relatively straight, with only the occasional 'power fade' :-)
After reading the posts in this forum for the past couple of years, I am starting to believe that the equipment doesn't make the golfer, the way the equipment is setup and the swing is what makes the golfer :meditate:
I may have a look at getting fitted by someone this year. :thumbsup
So it did work in a way. Have you tried offset fairway woods? Offset hybrids? An A flex shaft? I am not a golf instructor and I can't help you with the distance factor as I have never seen your swing. Could be many factors.Quote:
The only technology that has helped me was the R7 Bugsy bought me for Xmas a few years ago.
I do not slice my F/W woods or short Irons, just the driver. If I use the 3, 4 or 5 iron, they wil slice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieflongtee
My swing isn't pretty but I scramble very well, good chip/pitch and good putter. I have a choppy down swing and usually a reverse pivot.... to try and get distance I try to swing harder which causes the chopping motion and reverse pivot.... I know all my problems (or most of them) I just can't fix them permanently, they keep on creeping back into my game :wallbash
Indio, your distance issues may be as simple as the lofts of your clubs. Have you ever had them checked?
A second consideration is the flex of your clubs, not being able to load the shaft to take advantage of what the engine is suppose to do.
See what the changes to your driver did for you. The hook position that is set to your driver now has obviously helped in your directional control
What loft and length is this driver? Do you know your WTF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio
So an offset closed face hybrid will help considerably. You'll have to find a away to fall forward instead of backwardsQuote:
I do not slice my F/W woods or short Irons, just the driver. If I use the 3, 4 or 5 iron, they wil slice.
Dan, not ever having been fitted, I haven't a clue. I have tried stiff, Regular and even moved up and tried 'senior' and 'ladies' clubs :meditate: I've changed clubs so often I can't remember how many sets I've had. The only things that have remained in my bag for any length of time is my putter, F/W woods and now the Driver. I sometimes changed irons 2 or 3 times in the same year.Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustom
The driver loft is 10.5 although I wanted a 9 because I hit a VERY high ball... I get 0 role coming into a green, it hits, bounces once and stops. I am usually about 3 or 4 inches away from my ball mark no matter how hard the green is. My ball just drops off the end of a table at the end of the flight (unless I hit the ball thin of course)
WTF??? :book I use that term often, but somehow I don't think that is what you are refering to :-) I know nothing about technology, and I mean nothing.... :meditate:
Again, I would be fixing my problem through technology and the minute I change something in my swing (when I do try to think about it) them oppps, where did that hook come from? :biting: :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chieflongtee
Ya, I have tried actually taking a step towards the green with my back foot after I het the ball, it worked but I like like even more of an idiot than I really am so I nixed that trial.... someone suggest nailing my left shoe to the turf on every shot! I don't think so .... :rolleyes I just gotta learn to stop lunging so hard at the ball and take the short distances......:meditate:
WTF in golf fitting terminology is "wrist to floor".
Indio, the ball flight you describe with a driver is usually the result of hitting down on the driver causing excessive spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent
Thanks.... I like my WTF better ;)
Yes, I am told it is as a result of my 'chopping motion' which most call hitting down on the ball.
A club fitter and teacher would have a blast making me over.... I tried the lesson route a few years back with a very reputable pro in the area and I just got pissed at him cause he wanted me to have his swing and that was unrealistic since he was on the OVGA tour and playing well I may add. He wanted me to have a Freddy Couples type swing and wasn't concentrating on my faults (I think he was overwhelmed by the number of them!) :-) He completely screwed up my scoring for about 2 years until I reverted back to my bad habits :meditate:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio
There you go. From the previous post you have gone back to your old habits therefore my suggestion would be an excellent patch until you can dedicate 3 hours a day to a swing change:lmfao
This is what separates the good teachers from the bad ones. There are a lot of teachers who subscribe to the "one perfect swing" theory. If people all had the same body shape, strength, etc. this would make sense. But we don't, so it doesn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio
The key is to be able to get you to making a swing that is natural and repeatable for you.