P3Pro Vector Integration

we all know that this option exists, but we know very little about it. i have been contemplating on purchasing a vector but I have a hundred questions that have not been answered. all i want is a more realistic ball flight that measures launch and assist in ball tracking. sometimes I feel that p3pro is way off with the ball path/direction. I can live with estimated spin for now.

This is what I know:

- The price is $200 and it is currently back ordered.
- It will feed launch angle data into the Virtual Course Interface. The P3Pro rep said the launch data will work for the 36 GSA courses.

These are my questions:

- Will this work with other vector units like the Vector Launch & Cobra
Speed monitor? Why or why not?
- What changes will we see on the screen? Will there be a new window displaying launch data?
- What data are being captured and fed into GSA?
- What advantage does this have over the webcam/LED light Launch Angle package? Should I spend $3K for a vector pro now or just wait for them to improve the webcam/LED technology.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by dvshx

This is what I know:

- The price is $200 and it is currently back ordered.
- It will feed launch angle data into the Virtual Course Interface. The P3Pro rep said the launch data will work for the 36 GSA courses.

These are my questions:

- Will this work with other vector units like the Vector Launch & Cobra
Speed monitor? Why or why not?
- What changes will we see on the screen? Will there be a new window displaying launch data?
- What data are being captured and fed into GSA?
- What advantage does this have over the webcam/LED light Launch Angle package? Should I spend $3K for a vector pro now or just wait for them to improve the webcam/LED technology.

Thanks

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dvhs,

I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other. It's your money, but lets get some facts straight.

When chasiv was here last week, he said that he was still testing the Vector integration and at that time, the LA was still not being sent to GSA. GSA was reporting 0 deg for LA. I highly doubt that they have it working now. I've asked for proof and I'm still waiting for it. There is a big difference between having a window that pops up with the LA from the Vector, and having GSA actually use that LA data in it's ball flight calculations.

Also, even if they get it to work, it'll just be the LA data and no spin data. Chasiv please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think the Vector will help with ball path/direction since spin is needed for that.

As for the webcam LA, it's been discontinued and it never worked with GSA. As far as we know, there are no plans to bring it back or integrate it with GSA.

I believe fhann has a P3pro and a Vector. Perhaps he can be a guinea pig and order the Vector integration once it's available for purchase?:-)

All good points ZMax. I really hope it works out well for the P3pro integration but I am not optimistic.

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Originally Posted by bubba22

All good points ZMax. I really hope it works out well for the P3pro integration but I am not optimistic.

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Me too bubba22, but you and I both agree that if they were under smart management, they would just bring back the webcam LA and update it to work with GSA. Imagine the big increase in sales that would bring. :-)

That would be an instant seller at that price. I really don't understand their approach.

Just noticed that the Vector integration is no longer listed on P3proswing's website.

How do you go from telling customers that it works with the 36 virtual courses to pulling it off the website?

I completely agree. After a while you lose confidence in ones decision making. I wonder what is really going on?

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Originally Posted by bubba22

I completely agree. After a while you lose confidence in ones decision making. I wonder what is really going on?

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Maybe they were having a hard time meeting the surprisingly high demand that they decided to discontinue it?:-)

Now this might be a opportunity for P3Pro to open up the interface and in a few weeks they would have a proper integration and could sell a lot more hardware.
But they would lose the income from selling the 36 virtual courses!

It would be good for the company they would have software developed for free and they could concentrate on selling the hardware.
For me that looks like a way to get a few more years out of the platform

For as you say it is such a shame they can't figure out how to go forward.

This was posted on 1/14/11.http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showpost...&postcount=140

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Originally Posted by readygolf

FYI - Spk to Jay Rousseau (sp?), Owner of P3 and he told me some info I though i would pass on. He is a really nice guy and very approachable. Btw, he has been reading all of our posts and he knows our real names...Glad I didnt say anything bad :)

Anyway here is what he said...
1. They are going to be relaunching the selling of the Launch Angle package very soon. Prob in the next two weeks.
2. They are putting the finishing touches on the integration with Vector Pro and the data captured by Vector will be passed along to P3 to show the launch angle that the Vector measures
3. They are looking at having their own Launch Angle package integrate with the Virtual courses. FYI, he explained that he read our comments about our combined thoughts about "how easy it is" to have done this earlier. He also explained to me why it is not easy. He said he wasn't surprised that we dont understand how the technology of integrating woth other programs works but would have no problem explaining it to whoever is interested as he did with me. Anyway...
4. He also mentioned that they are working on trying to get Custom Play Games, makers of the Virtual courses, to work with them to get them to pass on to the them the data they need to improve lie penalties such as bunker and rough shots. P3 already can do that but its limited for Custome Play Games.

I have to say I am happy with my P3 and the course even with its limitations. But for $1600 I think its the best bargain.

And apparantly a lot of other people agree. Rousseau told me they have sold over 8000 P3's since 2004 and they have sold over 300 Virtual Course packages. And the PGA Learning Center endorses them, and every newly opened Sports Authority get one of their Ace packages...So they are doing something right.

Thats all. Hope this info help all of you.


Thats all I got

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1: not yet
2: not yet
3: not yet
4: not yet

You are right ZMax.

Nice one ZMax... yet another :wallbash from our friends at P3P

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Originally Posted by SodaBoy

Nice one ZMax... yet another :wallbash from our friends at P3P

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Thank you.

This is like watching a train wreck.:-)

We should at least give them credit for pulling a product that wasn't ready. Actually, the credit might belong to the folks in this forum. It might have been us questioning their claims that got the product pulled.

I really don't understand p3pro. The lack of consumer communication will hurt them for sure. Consumers now have more choices for home golf simulation and are better informed about their choices. Certainly this forum has been a huge sourc of shared information and reaches many people.

Here is a portion of a communication that I received today from accusports:

We can offer you 10% off the VectorPro with VFit/VTeach software which nets your price down to $2,880. Our system currently integrates with TruGolf's software as well as the P3Pro system - thanks and touch base with any additional questions.

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Originally Posted by golf4tito

Here is a portion of a communication that I received today from accusports:

We can offer you 10% off the VectorPro with VFit/VTeach software which nets your price down to $2,880. Our system currently integrates with TruGolf's software as well as the P3Pro system - thanks and touch base with any additional questions.

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golf4tito have you not been reading on the issues of the Vector integration with P3pro? It hasn't been good. You should phone Accusport and find out what exactly their integration with TruGolf entails. Is it with their system or just the software? I would call them if you are interested as you seem to be jumping from one system to another. once you find out the sppecifics with the Accusport rep then let us know. If its in your budget then get it and let us know how you make out.

i think that is a great idea bubba.

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Originally Posted by golf4tito

Here is a portion of a communication that I received today from accusports:

We can offer you 10% off the VectorPro with VFit/VTeach software which nets your price down to $2,880. Our system currently integrates with TruGolf's software as well as the P3Pro system - thanks and touch base with any additional questions.

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Great deal and it's portable.

The nature of the integration with trugolf is a combination of hardware and software integration. You wouldn't just be using the software, but you actually have to plug the Vector into a Trugolf sensor.

I am not jumping from system to system but rather wanted to take the opportunity to share the information I came across with those on the forum.

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Originally Posted by golf4tito

The nature of the integration with trugolf is a combination of hardware and software integration. You wouldn't just be using the software, but you actually have to plug the Vector into a Trugolf sensor.

I am not jumping from system to system but rather wanted to take the opportunity to share the information I came across with those on the forum.

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Well that integration will cost you well over $10,000 which I believe is out of your pricerange unless things have changed with your pricerange? People on the forum can help you for sure. The vector remember is a launch monitor which is used primarily for ball analysis and not entertainment. Their integration attempts are not new. I personally would not go that route now as there are many systems that will challange the vector/Truegolf at a lower pricepoint but hey pick one up and let us know. Most users on the forum are not going to just shell out that kind of dough without concrete feedback and in fact most would be looking at the GC2 well before getting the Vector/truegolf combo. Again it depends on what you want. If you already have a Truegolf and want more, then that combo is great. If one is starting from scratch , all I can say is that there are options.

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Originally Posted by golf4tito

The nature of the integration with trugolf is a combination of hardware and software integration. You wouldn't just be using the software, but you actually have to plug the Vector into a Trugolf sensor.

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That makes no sense. The Trugolf's sensor mat is embedded in the platform. You would need USB cable to connector the Vector to the PC.

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Originally Posted by ZMax

That makes no sense. The Trugolf's sensor mat is embedded in the platform. You would need USB cable to connector the Vector to the PC.

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I agree Z. My understanding is that they are plugged into the same computer and there is an integration software to link them. Really the point I am getting is that there are cheaper options at this time and that marriage between Vector and TrueGolf is not " simulator shattering" and probably too pricey to take over the market.

When I found out that the only vector data that can affect the ball flight in the software is launch & ball speed, I sold my P3Pro.

I will create a new discussion topic on sidespin. I need help understanding this.

Does anyone have anymore information about this integration between TruGolf and Vector? Supposedly it's called Vector Links, but the information available on the internet suggests that it was a failed venture? Thanks in advance.

Re: " Vector Pro " and P3Pro and the P3Pro Prem Courses.

First off this is real early results and not tested to the degree needed to give real good feedback but I wanted to share a little right off the bat.

Vector Pro needs sound to activate the cameras and then needs a moving ball (with a line on the ball) to read the ball info. On its own the Vector Pro is quite cool at what it reads with launch, spin, ball speed and then shows you what your ball flight and distance would have been. Also sells for over $3000 so not cheap.

The Vector Pro does work by adding launch angle with the P3pro (original courses) and Prem courses (what some called GSA). Tested only on driving ranges so far and like I said only a few test swings. Not sure what else works yet.

Here is what I noticed so far which is giving me a more positive feeling. Originaly only the launch angle was said to be used and I can not confirm right now what is all being used but it may be more than just launch angle unless launch angle on its own could do this. The reason I believe this, is that if I took a swing without the ball being there (just the P3Pro is read in the flight of the ball due to no sound and no ball being read by the Vector Pro as it defaults to the P3Pro pad) and the pad read my shot to go, let say 120 yds. I then placed an actual ball on the pad and used the Vector Pro and took another swing as close as I could to the first. Well the ball launch was way higher and not only that but the distance was way more as well by 20 or 30 yds (did not write that down so don't write those figures in stone). The Vector Pro on its own seems to be quite close to my real yardage with a PW, 8I etc where I have always said the P3pro was showing shorter distance and I would have to fudge some numbers in order for it to read like my real life yardage. I will now need to use the P3Pro stock setting and do more testing. I also should be able to hook up the old camera launch angle (now available and works only on the original two courses) and try it on the original two P3Pro courses and compare ball flight and distance to the Vector Pro. If the distance changes as much as it did now with the early test between the two methods of reading launch angle then I may be lead to believe that ball speed may also be being read.

I can see how the softer shots will not be heard by the Vector Pro so they will not register but I plan on trying something with a microphone and speakers for those softer shots. There will alway be some limits and may just have to accept that.

Not convinced that the data is being used by the P3pro. The biggest thing will be looking at the spin and ball speed numbers by the Vector and having them correlate with the P3pro club data, which I don't think will be the case. SFR what comes up on the screen with the integration? Do you get the P3pro data and the Vector pro data? If so hit some and post the results. If not is there a way to see the Vector data at the same time you see the P3pro data. I really think the inegration of these is limited to the launch angle and maybe the ball speed, but not even convinced of that.

Post a screen capture showing the LA from the Vector matching the LA in the premium courses. Also ask yourself if it looked accurate.

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Originally Posted by bubba22

Not convinced that the data is being used by the P3pro. The biggest thing will be looking at the spin and ball speed numbers by the Vector and having them correlate with the P3pro club data, which I don't think will be the case. SFR what comes up on the screen with the integration? Do you get the P3pro data and the Vector pro data? If so hit some and post the results. If not is there a way to see the Vector data at the same time you see the P3pro data. I really think the inegration of these is limited to the launch angle and maybe the ball speed, but not even convinced of that.

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I was wondering if I should post any results as I know I have only done a quick couple of tests but it may be a week before I can get some real testing done. The one thing that made me wonder about ball speed being read is how when on the P3pro Driving range the ball went way further when I used the Vector Pro as opposed to not using the unit. Also the same thing happened on the Prem Course driving range. I would have thought with just launch angle there may have been a few deg change in ball flight but that was not the case. I will try to get a better report on what is shown and give some actual numbers. What was showing up on P3Pro reg driving range was the vector data along the bottom with some limited readings (just like on the you tube Cory shot a while back). Just by memory I don't think that window showed up on the Prem Course but the ball flight did change with the Vector Pro so thus I think it does work on the Prem Courses, just not sure how much is used in the calculations.

I am going to set up another screen on the laptop and try to get a better read on comparing numbers. Also will have to use the stock settings in P3Pro to test.

You do need to have the Vector Pro running first for the P3Pro to see its there and get it to work. Both are running so the laptop slows down quite a bit and there is a delay in the ball launching (on the screen) but you hear two beeps from the Vector Pro to acknowledge that the unit read the ball propper. If it did not read propper after a few seconds the P3Pro just uses what it reads from the club.

I am going to try to hit some different balls and see if the ball speed changes in the p3pro like it will in the vector pro.

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Originally Posted by ZMax

Post a screen capture showing the LA from the Vector matching the LA in the premium courses. Also ask yourself if it looked accurate.

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If I can't get the screen shot I will at least write the numbers down and do a better job at comparing the results. I had like one or two swings with the Prem Courses just to see that it registered something and changes the ball flight and distance, but no time to go further (life was happening and had to quit).

One or two swings and seeing changes in ball flight and distance is not enough to make a post claiming that it works. Do a thorough test, take good notes, and screen captures of the relevant data. Also check that the data is accurate. You should be able to tell us what all works. i.e LA, ball speed, ball path, spin, etc...

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Originally Posted by ZMax

One or two swings and seeing changes in ball flight and distance is not enough to make a post claiming that it works. Do a thorough test, take good notes, and screen captures of the relevant data. Also check that the data is accurate. You should be able to tell us what all works. i.e LA, ball speed, ball path, spin, etc...

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You are right Z, a few swing are not enough to say if it is working and accurate. The first post was mainly to say that it does effect the ball flight in the Prem courses which has always been the question. Did it work as "launch angle" in Prem Courses. So yes it does do something but the next step will be how accurate. Tried to do some more quick tests with recording some numbers.

Again this is not a major test but here is one with the PW. My normal PW in real life goes about 120 yds and that I think is with about an 85 mph swing speed by using a radar.

The first set of numbers are just a swing without a ball and how Prem Course reads it.

Club used PW ............BALL SPEED......... LAUNCH ANGLE........... CARRY DIST
Prem Course without Vector 95.4...................17.1....................... ....88 (way lower than it should be in real life)

Now with Vector Pro on Prem Courses
Prem Course read.......... 111.0.................... 33.5......................... 106.55
Vector Pro read................89....................... 32.1.......................... 128

Prem........................... 106.2...................... 30.4......................... 103.19
Vector Pro...................... 88.......................... 29.4 .........................123

Prem ...........................104.8.................. ...... 33.8.......................... 102.51
Vector Pro...................... 90............................ 32.7.......................... 124


So launch angle seems to be about +1 in the Prem Couse compared to Vector Pro and does use this in ball flight. Even the visual flight of the ball is much higher in the Prem Course.
The ball speed is read higher and a bit all over the place but yet still won't give the end carry that the Vector shows but without the Vector info the carry was about 35 yds shorter than my so called real distance.

By using the slider in the P3Pro settings to the + side you can get the ball to carry about the right distance as this was the last thing I tried but for those swings I just used the P3Pro Driving range, but it did bring the carry distance to what the Vector Pro showed within a couple yards

So can I say for sure that it is using launch angle in calculations....YES
Does it use ball speed... not actual ball speed but it does make the ball carry further but not sure why or what it is using to do that.
Does it use the side spin or ball flight path... I don't think so as I tried setting my P3Pro pad crooked and leaving the Vector Pro normal and the vector showed a normal shot but the pad read and showed a hit way off line.

Next testing will be with the original launch cam on the two P3pro courses and see what it does to the carry distance with or without LA readings. Still try to compare to the Vector Pro readings but will not enable them into the P3pro.

So as of now I can't say how accurate it is or if it going to make the Prem Courses play better but at least I know it does at least send the launch angle info and it does do somthing that makes the ball fly a lot closer to real life distance.

I noticed that my elivation is closer to 2100 ft and I think I had it set at 1800 ft but that should not make much difference in the Vector Pro. Could doing test swings on certain courses in the Prem Courses change the ball carry? Do you think they use that in setting up the courses? My tests were on the Abu Dhabi. I don't use the end distance as the roll can change a lot but at least the carry should be similar.

Cool. So, it appears that LA is the only data that is used. Not ball speed or spin. I'm curious why the Premium course by itself would show a LA of 17 for a PW. If remember correctly, it just reported the club loft(46 or 48).

A LA of around 30 for a pw is about normal. The carry shouldn't be different on the prem courses unless you're hitting uphill or downhill.

Also, what happens if you try to hit a low punch shot? Can you posts some screen shots?

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Originally Posted by ZMax

Cool. So, it appears that LA is the only data that is used. Not ball speed or spin. I'm curious why the Premium course by itself would show a LA of 17 for a PW. If remember correctly, it just reported the club loft(46 or 48). You are right, they call it club loft angle and is 48. Not sure if that translates to a 48 deg launch because the ball always seemed to not fly as high as I would think in the sim. Also if you read some tests I did a while back I said that in the prem courses I noticed when you changed your swing speed it changed the launch angle displayed ( slower swing went higher and faster swing went lower) rather than the actual club hitting the ball area with an upswing or down swing. This may account for the launch being displayed way off in the Prem Courses. They may have a calculation in the wrong spot.

Now with regards to why using the Vector Pro boosts the ball speed that is shown and also boosts the overall carry of the ball. Could just the 30 to 32 deg launch angle give you that much more carry with the same swing speed?

A LA of around 30 for a pw is about normal. The carry shouldn't be different on the prem courses unless you're hitting uphill or downhill.

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But the carry did change (the green was about 2 inches lower than hitting area) by using the Vector Pro. Without it I can't get the PW to go more than 90 yards with a normal swing but soon as I put a real ball down so the Vector Pro can read it, the Prem Course all of a sudden (using the vector info) makes my PW go about 105 yds. Still not as far as the vector pro is showing for carry (which is almost bang on my 125 to 130 PW yds) but it is boosted from something.

I think I heard that for every 1 mph you increase your swing speed you gain 3 yds. If that is close or right do you know how much a ball speed change makes to yardage?
Does the Vector Pro reading of 88-90 ball speed translate to about 125 yds distance with about 30 deg launch?

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Originally Posted by ZMax

Also, what happens if you try to hit a low punch shot? Can you posts some screen shots?

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I did try some punch shots and the launch was lower and I will try to get some screen shots but I have to admit I am having a screen shot problem. On windows 7 it easy but how the heck do I do this on my laptop with XP? Also I have never posted photos on this forum, do you have to have a holding site for the photos to link to or do you just down load to this site. Or I can send them to you and let you post them.

One thing that I did notice is that you do still need to tell the P3Pro what club you are using because when you hit a PW it may go 110 yds but tell P3Pro its a Driver and swing again and even though the launch is the same 30 deg (about) the ball goes 200 yds or about. No different than it would if you were just using it without a launch monitor. Where as the Vector Pro never needs to know what club you are hitting as it just reads the ball off the face of the club. So we know the P3Pro uses some calculations with its club settings as it did before.

I might try a ping pong ball with the Vector Pro and Prem Course and see if the Prem Course reads a slower ball speed. As long as the Vector reads it I would think the ball speed should be way lower and thus less yardage and if it translates to the Prem Courses with less ball speed then we will know it that is being read.

On my GSA system, when I select a driver but swing a PW, the ball goes 120 yards. With the PW selected, it'll go 115 yards.

Whats with the red letters? You suggesting I'm not reading what you wrote?

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Originally Posted by ZMax

On my GSA system, when I select a driver but swing a PW, the ball goes 120 yards. With the PW selected, it'll go 115 yards.

Whats with the red letters? You suggesting I'm not reading what you wrote?

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LOL Sorry but the first message I was answering inside your quote and Red would stand out from the rest of the quote. The second note I never changed the color back and it was getting late to fuss with. I will see if I can fix it... Your luckey I didn't make the text way bigger for the visually impaired I know that would actually help me.... I was a mess for 3 days after getting this Vector Pro and being haunched over the laptop (way too low) for a few hours getting thing set up. My legs were shot...

I know that P3pro needs to know the club to let them give simulated yardage due to the fact they don't read ball speed but just club speed but I wanted to try it with the Vector Pro attached just in case it did read the ball speed into it. I think that if it the test would have been close it may show it was using ball speed.

Still wondering what it would be using or doing to add that much more yardage to the clubs just by using the added Vector Pro launch info? I like that it is doing that as it makes the clubs, for me at least, a lot closer to real life yardage and the visual of the ball flight is much nicer going a lot higher. Now I can clear those fake trees and not feel as bad just going through them....


I do hope you do know how much I appreciate your feedback on these golf sims. And I know you just really want the truth to show about what a Sim can or can't do.

Well I tried the old launch angle camera, that only works on the P3pro courses, and it had a similar result to the shot distance. With the launch angle being used the shots go further just like I found with the Vector Pro was doing, so it has nothing to do with reading somthing else but rather just the fact that the higher launch angle is being used in the ball flight.

So this leads me to somthing that P3Pro may need to look into, regarding how the launch is being calculated when not using a launch cam or monitor. If my earlier testing that showed by slowing the swing speed down the launch numbers went up and by speeding up the swing they went down this may be the reason for low launch angles for clubs with a full swing. The launch monitors over ride those numbers and thus you get what I would call the propper looking shots and distance.