Printable View
If he gets knocked out of the playoff this falls on the rules commitee as BS. If that is anything other than a waste bunker or rough, the USGA should never have let the fans stand in it. Bunkers in play should have been marked and had fans kept out of it.
I agree that it sure looked like a waste area but even worse was when he got his caddie to stand and block the sun that was shining on his ball and this falls under rule 14-2 where a player's caddie is not allowed to position himself to protect the player from the elements. Bummer for Dustin but when he first grounded his club and turned away I think he knew he had done something wrong.
The announcers said he was in a bunker (I believe) at the time he was walking up and when I first saw him ground the club I thought he may have had a penalty but they said nothing more of it so I discarded the thought. I really don't think his caddie was used to block the sun, I think it was an observer as the caddie went down the tunnel. I also don't think he thought he did anything wrong when he paused, he just wanted the sun beam blocked.
The caddie went right into the crowd to block the sun. They showed him a number of times and he manouvered himself to make sure he had the ball covered.
He wasn't getting someone to block the sun, he wanted them to stop moving making his ball go from sunny to shade.
I still call BS, regardless if there was 5000 bunkers on the course, the should have kept fans out of there. I've never seen fans standing in areas of play. The USGA picked this location, regardless of their pre-tourney meeting, they should lay out the areas to properly maintain the integrity of the course and hazard's playing condition.
Gerry, if you watch the replay, his caddie actually walks down back towards the fairway. He asked people in the gallery to stop moving and having his ball go from sun covered to shade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Johnny69
Agreed, that's what I was trying to say in my post.
I originally called BS - I'd now like to change my feelings to Complete Farce!!
Ridonk. Golf rules to the dumbest degree.
I can't recall if they allowed the crowd that close during the first two rounds on 18 but what a shame.
At the same time..what a finish. I nearly jumped out of my seat when Bubba rang it off the pin.
and why didn't the officials give him a little more breathing room when making that shot?!? He only had what looked to be a 6-8 foot alleyway to make a pretty important stroke in the pga championship!!! one can only wonder if the fans were made to move out a little wider that DJ would have been able to recognize it was a bunker.
Bah!
golf rules are stupid, just let us do whatever we want
After looking at the replay many times it was interesting to see the look on his face when he first grounded his club and backed away (this was before addressing the ball) I thought originally at this point he was going to talk to an official but then went in and grounded it a couple more times before hitting the ball. The notices to competitors are given out at tournaments for the players and it was interesting to hear him and Watney say that they never read it as they get them all the time. These will cover some of the local rules for the course being played and did cover all of the "bunker".
As per Silly's comment, I suppose he does do what he wishes and this mentality is bad and much of it is from other sports like hockey, football and soccer where you try to break the rules without getting caught. This past weekend two separate players in the club championship called themselves for double hitting a ball which noone else saw. That's the way the game should be played.
This is a circus course to start with. Looked at another way, he actually got a great break when his ball ended up on packed down sand surface from which he was able to hit a very good shot rather than buried in 8 inches of grass. All he had to do was keep his wits about him. I have no sympathy for those who do not read the supplimentary rules sheets at events. Agree with them or not, hours of discussion and debate often go into deciding how a course is to be set up and played in order to make an event as fair as possible under the rules.
Also if I were DJ, I would be looking for a new caddy today.
Gerry. I agree, when he first grounded his club in the sand the first time before he asked that the sun area be covered I yelled at the TV "that's a penalty". He did it again before hitting his ball. There are 1200 bunkers on the course so it really is up to him and his caddie to ensure the area he is playing is a bunker or not. It was the main item in the rules and the Michelle Wie excuse of not knowing the local rules does not fly for a pro. I really thought when he grounded his club the first time he seemed to realise "oops, this could be a bunker". Why was he not penalised 2x then Gerry?
The most interesting thing I thought was Watney's reaction as this was unfolding, he had his hat sideways and looked like this was happening to him. He obviously felt badly for DJ, in spite of shooting +10 on the dy himself.
Is it really the caddie's fault? I wonder because DJ said he "read" the local rules but did not pay that much attention to them in his interview with Feherty. But your righht that if the caddy would have reiterated to DJ that this area was a bunker even though it was outside the roped area he may the Champ today.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaPat
Luc it's one of those things within the rule that if you break the rule once, twice or three times in the same situation you are only penalized once.
Ok, that is what I figured but thought if they did he could finish 5th!!! He sounded a little like Michelle Wie I thought in his interview with Feherty, putting more emphasis on the decision rather than on himself for not knowing the local rules.
The last time the PGA was played there all the bunkers outside the ropes were designated waste areas. It was going to be so this time but a week or so before the event the PGA changed its mind. All the players were supposed to have been contacted and told about it.
I have not come across this fact anywhere else. It is interesting in light of this brief article about Appleby.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAA
http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=5467779
Sorry, my informant was wrong. I spotted the Appleby incident and queried with him.
Apparently the PGA had indicated it was going to make them TTG and then changed its mind.
Perhaps a listen to DJ's comment would help clarify this. "Yeah, block it, block it." Does that sound like someone who is trying to get the spectators to stand still? 2 strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Johnny69
I agree that the officials call was BS as he DJ have been penalized 4 strokes instead of just 2. Plus, Bubba Watson trampling all over his drop area near the LW hazard, TWICE, was also BS.
I guess I'll never understand why some feel that golfers should be exempt from playing by the rules.
Why couldn't DJ ask for more room? It is NOT the officials responsibility to move the crowd, but that of the marshals.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakingtheCut
You mean double hitting or calling oneself? Thanks, Gerry. Rub it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbower
In a tournament years ago I addressed a short putt and the ball moved forward almost imperceptibly after which I called myself. My three fellow competitors thought I was nuts. Doesn't anyone play by the rules any more?
I listened to it and taken in the full context of the exchange he was asking for the spectators to stay still.Quote:
Originally Posted by BC MIST
Why do I say that? Because his very first comments were to have the spectators stop moving and thus changing the light on the ball. If I were a rules official I would absolutely NOT give him a penalty for that one.
It sure looked to me that he was asking to block the shaft of light that was on the ball. Then the person adjusted position to do so.
No penalty was assesed. I'd love to see the replay.14-2. Assistance
In making a stroke, a player must not:
a. Accept physical assistance or protection from the elements; or
b. Allow his caddie, his partner or his partner's caddie to position himself on or close to an extension of the line of play or the line of putt behind the ball.
14-2/0.5 Meaning of “Elements”
Q. What are considered “elements” under Rule 14-2a?
A. Elements include sunlight, rain, wind, snow and other weather conditions. (New)
Like I said, right from the very beginning of his interaction with the fans it was very clear that he was trying to get them to stay still.
Consider the following two exchanges:
A - Hey guys, come stand over here and block the sun from my ball. Penalty.
B - Hey guys, stop moving around so that you aren't changing the light/shadow on my ball. OK, you've got it so there's only shadow now. Stay there. No penalty.
Remember, the same officials who saw him ground the club saw him interact with the fans so if they had a concern they would have voiced it then. The on course official didn't make the call. One of the officials in the booth/lounge saw it on TV and told the officials to talk to DJ and Watney.
Looked like "A" to me. I could be wrong.
And to me it was clearly "B".
Neither of us were there and the Rules Officials who were chose to call it at as "B". I win! :-)
I wanna see a recording! I looked but did not find.
Strange. If someone is casting a shadow on your putting line on the green you can ask them to move, but if someone is changing the lighting on your stroke, you can't ask them to stop. I get that there's a difference, by letter of the law, between asking for light and asking for shadow, but in this case it sounds more like nitpicking to me. He wanted uniform lighting conditions, which he could've gotten by clearing all those people out, or getting them to block the light. I don't think he much cared either way.
Hmmm. :scratchch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruskie
Just saw a quote from that memo PGA sent to all the players on Golf Fix. Interestingly enough, it refers to (don't remember the exact words) areas designed as bunkers. There was nothing in that quote to suggest that "any sand" on the course is to be treated as a bunker, it just stressed that no relief would be given from footprints and such.
How can you possibly tell that the little puddle of sand DJ hit from was, in fact, designed as a bunker? There's grass around it on three sides, there's grass growing in the sandy patch in front of it, there's no lip in sight, there's no definable contour to it. It could easily have been an area of rough or fesque trampled down by the crowd. I don't know if it makes a difference in the ruling, I guess lack of knowledge can't be used as an excuse, but I don't understand how the players can be expected to realize this little patch of sand was in fact "designed as a bunker".
For a million plus, it might be a good idea to ask the RO to make sure. That's why he's there in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruskie
I'm not a rules guy but a few thoughts:
1. The rules officials did a crap job of setting up the roped area on many holes. I saw Tiger have to hit fairway woods over people and ask them to duck down because he was going right over them. The design of the course required the roped area to be a little more restrictive in my opinion. The fact that so many players hit right on 18 (although maybe not as far as DJ) should been a sign that set up of roped area was not sufficient to allow for player error.
2. At DJ shot from "bunker" the marshalls, rules official, caddie and DJ all did crap jobs of having area cleared out. If this had happened then the issue would not have occurred.
When the head official was asked this by Frank Nobilio he answered politically, that is to say he avoided the issue and said nothing. You could see Nobilo try to ask again but Tilghman budded in letting official off the hook.
3. I agree that when he first addressed ball his body language looks like he realized he may have made a mistake.
Well, in a million plus tourney, on the last hole of the day, with the tournament on the line, the rules official just might have volunteered that information. The fact that nobody mentioned it to him before he holed out suggests that either there were no rules official on the scene, or that they hadn't realized it was a bunker either.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaPat
I'm not about to absolve DJ of all responsibility, but the whole situation could've been avoided with better crowd control, both before and after he landed in the sand, and perhaps with some timely words of caution.
There wouldn't have been a problem if he had bothered to read the notice he was given beforehand. He admitted he didn't.
Given that all players were made aware of the conditions have a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=figQj...layer_embedded
Found itQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruskie
He asked someone to move so they cast a shadow on the ball. That's a violation.Quote:
14-2/2.5 Player Positions Bag for Purpose of Providing Shade for Ballhttp://www.usga.org/assets/0/1181/15...0fc8b9062c.gif
Q. A player positions his golf bag near the teeing ground for the purpose of blocking the sunlight from the position where he tees his ball. He then makes a stroke. Is he in breach of Rule 14-2?
A. Yes. As the player was not in contact with the golf bag, he accepted protection from the elements in breach of Rule 14-2. This answer differs from that in Decision 14-2/2 as, in that case, the player was in contact with the umbrella.
While a player may not place an object or position a person for the purpose of blocking the sunlight from his ball, he may ask a person (e.g., a spectator) who is already in position not to move, so that a shadow remains over the ball, or to move, so that his shadow is not over the ball. (New)
With a tip of the hat to Bob McCown of Toronto's Fan590, "If if's and but's were candies and nuts, then we would all have a merry Christmas".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruskie