no way to hit your club without damaging it...

[Kiwi]

Interesting how a relatively simple question can raise such emotion in some people. There are many issues raised but of them all I take exception to the word "cheat" being used for someone who does not play golf by the rules. Just to confirm my belief that this word was improperly, or perhaps mistakenly used I consulted a dictionary. I have always felt that to cheat someone was trying to obtain something that they were not entitled to by deceipt or falsehood. Certainly those that "fudge" their scores to gain some advantage for themselves are cheaters. I do not accept that when I move a ball out of a divot or off a rock (unseen from 250 yards away) that I am cheating. All my rounds are practice and all I am trying to do is get better. I have never, nor do I ever intend to bet on a game, hole or shot, compete for a prize or use my score, or knowledge to try to make myself appear better than my fellow man. I play golf. I would hope those who say they intend to promote the game, civility and honour should choose their words more carefully.

[GarthM]

Interesting how a relatively simple question can raise such emotion in some people. There are many issues raised but of them all I take exception to the word "cheat" being used for someone who does not play golf by the rules. Just to confirm my belief that this word was improperly, or perhaps mistakenly used I consulted a dictionary. I have always felt that to cheat someone was trying to obtain something that they were not entitled to by deceipt or falsehood. Certainly those that "fudge" their scores to gain some advantage for themselves are cheaters. I do not accept that when I move a ball out of a divot or off a rock (unseen from 250 yards away) that I am cheating. All my rounds are practice and all I am trying to do is get better. I have never, nor do I ever intend to bet on a game, hole or shot, compete for a prize or use my score, or knowledge to try to make myself appear better than my fellow man. I play golf. I would hope those who say they intend to promote the game, civility and honour should choose their words more carefully.

Like many words cheat has several definitions and interpretations depending on it's usage. One very accepted definition being:

Cheat: verb, intransitive: to violate rules or regulations.

Typically used to indicate the gaining of an advantage of some sort.

One of the fundamental rules of golf is "play the ball as it lies". If you move your ball out of a divot, you are violating a rule, plain and simple. Do you move your ball out of a bunker because you don't like it? Take a mulligan because you duffed a tee shot? Where do you draw the line if you are truly trying to improve as you say you are? How do you know if you are improving if you don't accurately track your score by counting all your strokes/penalties?

Why is it that so many people feel they can pick and choose the rules that they wish to play by in golf? It does not happen in any other game I have ever played to the degree it does in golf. Truly amazing, but I digress, hopefully having chosen my words carefully.

[Kiwi]

Cheat: verb, intransitive: to violate rules or regulations.

Typically used to indicate the gaining of an advantage of some sort.

Thanks, I think you made my point for me. What advantage am I gaining by taking my ball out of a divot or lifting it off of that unseen rock in the middle of the fairway to avoid damaging my club? I guess you could say that I am "cheating" myself, but that is a long debate. And as far as practicing, IMHO I don't think that practicing ALL possible combinations at the outset is the best way to improve. Never been to a real lesson, but I don't think they put you in the sand trap until you have achieved some level of competency on more basic shots. When I can gain consistency on some basic shots then I will move along. I rarely move the ball, but when I do I don't call it cheating. Now that I have been educated by many in the Forum I now know that most of the time I can move it "legally" and to my advantage. How about the beginners, mosty women, that I have seen that are urged to tee their ball up in the fairway rather than polo it along the ground. Would you call them cheaters? Can I watch???
Perhaps the majority of the forum members are scratch/low handicap golfers, but I'd bet that most people that "play at" golf do it for enjoyment not to beat someone or prove themselves but just for the sheer enjoyment of the game. The happiest people I have ever met on a golf course are those that refuse to carry a score card and get caught up in all the hype. Obey the rules in competition, know the rules, but don't let them rule you. There must still be some room for common sense. Don't try to equate a golf rule to a law, not even close.

[justsomeguy]

Perhaps the majority of the forum members are scratch/low handicap golfers, but I'd bet that most people that "play at" golf do it for enjoyment not to beat someone or prove themselves but just for the sheer enjoyment of the game. The happiest people I have ever met on a golf course are those that refuse to carry a score card and get caught up in all the hype. Obey the rules in competition, know the rules, but don't let them rule you. There must still be some room for common sense. Don't try to equate a golf rule to a law, not even close.

If you're not keeping score, then there really is no issue here at all.

If you're worried about your safety or about damaging your clubs, then clearly you should move the ball. On this point there really is no debate at all. The real question is whether or not you take the penalty stroke. That is what the real debate is all about in this thread.

If someone is truly playing "just for the sheer enjoyment of the game", then what do they care about penalty strokes? If they're not keeping score, then the rules really don't matter at all. Play as you see fit and have fun.

Ahhh, but it seems that the score really does matter to most golfers. The "sheer enjoyment" comes from attaining the lowest score possible, and playing by the rules can be an impediment to that goal. Many golfers take a great deal of pride in "breaking __" or in scoring their personal best - and some of these pesky rules just seem to get in the way!

It certainly doesn't matter to me how others choose to play the game. Have fun any way you want out there. But if people are going to make up their own rules, then they should realize that in reality they're making up their own scores too. The numbers they add up at the end are only meaningful in comparison to those who play by the same rules that they do - which often means they are not meaningful to anybody else at all.

I think if the scores count, then the rules count. You can't have one without the other.

[BC MIST]

If you're not keeping score, then there really is no issue here at all.

Ahhh, but it seems that the score really does matter to most golfers. The "sheer enjoyment" comes from attaining the lowest score possible, and playing by the rules can be an impediment to that goal. Many golfers take a great deal of pride in "breaking __" or in scoring their personal best - and some of these pesky rules just seem to get in the way!

It certainly doesn't matter to me how others choose to play the game. Have fun any way you want out there. But if people are going to make up their own rules, then they should realize that in reality they're making up their own scores too. The numbers they add up at the end are only meaningful in comparison to those who play by the same rules that they do - which often means they are not meaningful to anybody else at all.

I think if the scores count, then the rules count. You can't have one without the other.

Excellent post.