+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 30 of 78
Thread: Ruling?
-
08-18-2014 12:34 PM #1
Ruling?
Had a situation this weekend, nobody knew the correct ruling. Player hits his ball into a red hazard right of the green, finds a ball on a very steep slope, walking down trying to get to his ball to identify he slips a little causing the ball to move, what happens, he doesn't know that's his ball yet and doesn't know if he will play from location or take penalty, is he penalized for causing the ball to move?
-
08-18-2014 12:36 PM #2
did he determine that was his ball eventually or did the ball then fall into the water?
I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.
-
08-18-2014 12:55 PM #3
-
08-18-2014 01:04 PM #4
Whaddya mean nobody knew????
I said no penalty....http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-12/
plus: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...Rule-18/#18-2a
-
08-18-2014 01:13 PM #5
-
08-18-2014 01:14 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Liverpool
- Posts
- 1,340
Penalty under 18-2a(i) bullet 3.
18-2. Ball at rest Moved
By Player, Partner, Caddie Or Equipment
a. General
Except as permitted by the Rules, when a player’s ball is in play, if
(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies:
• causes the ball to move
the player incurs a penalty of one stroke.
He must replace the ball.
None of the conditions in rule 12 are satisfied.
-
08-18-2014 01:24 PM #7
-
08-18-2014 01:26 PM #8
-
08-18-2014 01:26 PM #9
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Liverpool
- Posts
- 1,340
-
08-18-2014 10:48 PM #10
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- aberdeen
- Posts
- 94
-
08-19-2014 03:15 AM #11
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Liverpool
- Posts
- 1,340
-
08-19-2014 09:02 AM #12
-
08-19-2014 09:06 AM #13
-
08-19-2014 09:39 AM #14
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Forever stuck between single digit and trunk slammer!
- Posts
- 16,809
From what I gather, ball was within the limits of a hazard (on a slope but not in the actual water). If the player had no intention of trying to play the ball from the hazard and was merely trying to get to the ball to identify it, but still slips and moves the ball, is it a penalty?
I'm with Garth on this one, not sure how this could still incurr a penalty? When I play if my ball is in a hazard and I walk in there and pick up my ball, or use a club to try to knock it back to me (which could take a few whacks if the ball is in a tough spot), by the above reasoning I should incurr a penalty also.
Unlike a provisional, I don't think you have to declare you are not attempting to play your ball from a hazard, you can just pick it up and procede accordingly. So if you are going into a hazard to pick up your ball to drop it outside the hazard as per the rules, but slip and kick the ball within the hazard due to wet grass or an extreme slope, not sure how a penalty can be assessed.
If he had taken his stance in an attempt to play the ball and slipped and moved it, then I can see how a penalty can be assessed.
Some clarification would be nice here.
To me it seems he can procede accordingly under 26-1, he just wanted to make sure it was his ball before having to pull another one from his bag.Last edited by Big Johnny69; 08-19-2014 at 09:52 AM.
"A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
-
08-19-2014 09:59 AM #15
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- aberdeen
- Posts
- 94
The cautious player will declare that he's going to proceed under Rule 26-1 before he enters the hazard to retrieve the ball. In that way, there is no penalty for causing the ball to move. If the player's actions suggest that he's still thinking about playing the ball, then there is a penalty for causing the ball to move.
-
08-19-2014 10:06 AM #16
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Forever stuck between single digit and trunk slammer!
- Posts
- 16,809
I understand what you say, but it does not stipulate in the rules that you have to declare you are using rule 26-1, like it does if you plan to play a provisional.
There is where I can understand people's frustration with the rules. Common sense should prevail knowing that he was going down to see if it was his ball to pick it up to proceed under rule 26-1. So according to the rules it is expected to leave your (possibly brand new) ProV1 in the hazard (that is on a severe slope, with wet, dewy grass) for fear of incurring a penalty if you happen to slip and move your ball. In my opinion, that is really stupid.
If it is prudent to declare you are proceeding under any type of rule, then put in the words "a player must declare" in the rules to avoid this type of situation.
I'm pretty sure I'd create a bit of a scene of I lost out on a tournament because of this scenario if I was told I "should have declared I was proceeding under 26-1" when within the rules it doesn't state I have to do so.
And judging from Pat's scenario above, I don't think he was planning on playing the ball, just wanted to see if it was his before he proceeded under 26-1."A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
-
08-19-2014 10:10 AM #17
-
08-19-2014 10:16 AM #18
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Forever stuck between single digit and trunk slammer!
- Posts
- 16,809
That's fine, but it doesn't say anywhere in the rules he has to state his intentions (for all the die hard purists who always state the "rules are the rules"), except for a provisional. So for them now, to take a different stance on this would be quite hypocritical of them.
In all my years of playing, I have never, nor have I ever had an opponent declare he was proceeding under 26-1 when he's gone into a hazard to get/identify a ball. I'd like to know how many times you have honestly done that, or seen someone that has done that. And this is in casual and competitive play.
Many times I have entered a hazard and brought a club with to reach my ball along a water line to tap it back to me. According to the rules I guess I should've been penalizing myself all those times. It's good to know the rules would rather penalize you than take into account a player's safety."A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
-
08-19-2014 10:17 AM #19
See the last part of 12-1c for clarification.
c. Searching for Ball in Water in Water Hazard
If a ball is believed to be lying in water in a water hazard, the player may, without penalty, probe for it with a club or otherwise. If the ball in water is accidentally moved while probing, there is no penalty; the ball must be replaced, unless the player elects to proceed under Rule 26-1. If the moved ball was not lying in water or the ball was accidentally moved by the player other than while probing, Rule 18-2a applies.When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
-
08-19-2014 10:24 AM #20
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Forever stuck between single digit and trunk slammer!
- Posts
- 16,809
I saw that part Rich. His ball was on the slope, not in the water.
But I was referencing many times I have used a club to tap a ball back to me that is in a hazard but near the water line or under bushes, not actually in water. So according to the rules, I should penalize myself because due to safety/accessibility issues I am using a club to reach my ball because I can't pick it up with my hand.
Now before anyone goes off saying that's unreasonable, according to the all the rules gurus (and Rich, see your signature), what's in the rules are the rules."A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
-
08-19-2014 10:27 AM #21
Let's face it. There are too many Rules and Sub categories. It's no wonder golf is losing players. Make the rules straight forward, and without a doubt.
How many people carry around a rule book with them? Not many, or any that I know. The same can be said for how many people I know that have the book memorized.
-
08-19-2014 10:28 AM #22
Also remember, even though a ball is in a hazard, it's still in play. The prudent thing to do if the ball is in a precarious position is to proceed under 26-1 first, and then go retrieve the other ball. As long as it's known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard, there's no requirement to identify it first.
When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
-
08-19-2014 10:29 AM #23
-
08-19-2014 10:30 AM #24
-
08-19-2014 10:36 AM #25When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
-
08-19-2014 10:40 AM #26
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Location
- Forever stuck between single digit and trunk slammer!
- Posts
- 16,809
I understand all of this. But if my ball is in a hazard and retrievable, and I have no intention of playing it from the hazard I find it stupid that if I slip and move my ball you get penalized. If, like a provisional, you need to declare what your intentions are then fine, I'd declare everytime. But the rules don't say that. So I'd have a very hard time swallowing a penalty if I go down a slope to get my ball and fall and kick it.
But I find it amusing (see sarcasm) where the purists always tout how the rules aren't open to interpretation, but all of a sudden they are preaching common sense and discretion where otherwise they state the rules are the rules."A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08
-
08-19-2014 10:48 AM #27
My comments are in relation to this event specifically. It just shows how it is ambiguous as Geoff has mentioned. This is obviously not a rule that is "basic", and that is obvious by the question for clarification here in this thread.
I challenge you to question, even competitive golfers, if they know exactly what the ruling would be in this case. I can almost guarantee you, that they would need a rules official to clarify.
And for the record...That's quite narrow-minded of you to say, that if you don't have even a basic understanding, that you shouldn't play golf anyway....Perhaps this is the stance that needs to be altered, in order to not discourage people who like to play for the pure enjoyment.....
-
08-19-2014 10:50 AM #28
How about finding a less direct route to your ball before going to retrieve it? That is common sense in action with regard to the rules. The ball is still in play, and the player is on the hook for a ball in play that moves as a direct result of his actions. 26 allows the player to substitute a ball when taking relief.
When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
-
08-19-2014 10:55 AM #29
I stand by my statement 100%. I'm tired of people who constantly whine about how the rules are killing participation in golf. That's total BS. People come on here to ask for clarification, and then whine when they don't get the answer they like. What's the point? There's a lot of stuff in life we don't like, so either do something about it, or get on with it. It's that simple. Golf is a lot like life, you get out of it what you put in to it.
When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.
-
08-19-2014 10:58 AM #30
Let me give you another perfect example of how the rules are not straight-forward, in the eyes of people who play all the time, and not the actual rules official.
Why is this rule the way it is....??
If I knock my ball off the tee on the tee box, I may replace it with no penalty, as I have not made an effort to actually hit the ball.
If I knock my ball with practice swings, a few feet to the side, when my ball is laying in the rough, I must replace the ball, and take a one stroke penalty for doing so.
What is the difference between the two? In both instances I did not make an attempt to actually hit the ball.
As a golfer who is getting into the game, or say someone who does not have the book memorized, why not make this rule uniform for all instances?
Just using this as an example, of how the rules could be simplified with a uniform ruling.
It's no secret that even golf pros, and analysts, have been pushing to simplify the rules for a while now.
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 6 guests)
Similar Threads
-
What is the ruling on this one?
By Break68 in forum Rules Of GolfReplies: 9Last Post: 04-26-2011, 07:03 AM -
What's The Ruling
By BC MIST in forum Rules Of GolfReplies: 31Last Post: 03-28-2008, 08:50 PM -
Need a ruling
By clankoffdatee in forum Rules Of GolfReplies: 20Last Post: 10-11-2006, 05:46 PM -
What's the ruling?
By Big Johnny69 in forum Rules Of GolfReplies: 20Last Post: 08-29-2006, 02:04 PM -
What is the ruling for this?
By Farzin in forum Rules Of GolfReplies: 6Last Post: 08-12-2003, 04:56 PM