Ball in Hazard or Casual Water?

[Gary Hill]

Are you even allowed to use a range ball on a course? Why do they say you cant? what is wrong with a range ball?

Absolutely not. Most courses will quickly dismiss you from the course if they find you using a range ball.

Rule 5. The ball the player uses must conform to requirements specified in Appendix III.

Golf balls are golf balls.

Range balls are not golf balls.
Tennis balls are not golf balls.
Footballs are not golf balls.

[BullDog]

However, in a bunker, you are allowed to dig around for it in the sand.

Is there any way someone could try to nail you with a 'testing the conditions of the hazard' or whatever wording you want to give it? What happens after you find it? You've likely moved it and, though while not very probable, improved its lie as compared to how it would have been had you not been "digging around".

...or is this thread turning into one of those "what if" contests that could never end?

[Gary Hill]

Is there any way someone could try to nail you with a 'testing the conditions of the hazard' or whatever wording you want to give it? What happens after you find it? You've likely moved it and, though while not very probable, improved its lie as compared to how it would have been had you not been "digging around".

...or is this thread turning into one of those "what if" contests that could never end?

Because Rule 12-1 specifically allows you to probe into the sand while searching for your ball, this overrides the general prohibitions of Rule 13-4 (Ball in Hazard).

In a hazard, if a ball is believed to be covered by loose impediments or sand, the player may remove by probing or raking with a club or otherwise, as many loose impediments or as much sand as will enable him to see a part of the ball. If an excess is removed, there is no penalty and the ball must be re-covered so that only a part of the ball is visible. If the ball is moved during the removal, there is no penalty; the ball must be replaced and, if necessary, re-covered.

[GarthM]

If you hit a ball into casual water and cannot find/retrieve it, it is not "really" lost. It is just not immediately recoverable. If you hit the same shot next week, you may have a perfect lie. That is the rational for the casual water relief.

Is the abnormal ground condition also not a temporary condition that normally I would get relief from? For example frost heaving in certain areas will actually sink once you step on them and take your stance. The condition definately interferes with your ability to take your stance therefore you get free relief. The same condition is also soft enough to have a ball plug, although it would not be eligible as casual water.

Otherwise this ruling/decision truly hinges on the casual water issue that apparently has magical powers to make a lost ball un-lost and merely temporarily inconvenienced.

Gimme another ball I'm going back to the tee.........grrrr

[Gary Hill]

Is the abnormal ground condition also not a temporary condition that normally I would get relief from? For example frost heaving in certain areas will actually sink once you step on them and take your stance. The condition definately interferes with your ability to take your stance therefore you get free relief. The same condition is also soft enough to have a ball plug, although it would not be eligible as casual water.

Otherwise this ruling/decision truly hinges on the casual water issue that apparently has magical powers to make a lost ball un-lost and merely temporarily inconvenienced.

Gimme another ball I'm going back to the tee.........grrrr

There is no magical power to make a lost ball un-lost. I was trying to explain the distinction between the status of a "lost ball" (which requires a penalty to be added to your score) and a "ball lost in an abnormal ground condition" (which allows substitution of a ball without penalty).

I don't exactly know the point you are trying to make.

You get free relief from ALL abnormal ground conditions (which include casual water and ground under repair).
You get free relief from a ball plugged in the fairway.

Both are inherently temporary conditions.

[GarthM]

The issue I am making (apparently unclearly) is that the only difference between my ball being plugged and unfound (read not lost) and being in casual water and unfound (again read not lost) is MINIMAL at best.

Yet for some bizarre reason I get free relief from the ball not lost in casual water even though I cannot find it yet not from another abnormal ground condition of the same making (i.e. the soft ground left after casual water has disappeared).

That's it.

As I said, gimme another ball I'm heading back to the tee box.....

GarthM

[oldmaninblack]

not bizarre, just consider that you don't "know" your ball is plugged, you just suspect it. I once gave up a ball as plugged/lost in the fairway and later found it about 80 yards ahead of where I was looking. My ball was still lost since I gave up and played another. I can only surmise that I hit a sprinkler head or rock dead on and got a huge bounce, because the ball was more than 325 yds from the tee. The only point here is that there is no way to "know" your ball is plugged without finding it plugged.

and of course there is no relief for a ball plugged outside the "closely mown" areas of the course unless we're playing lift, clean and place through the green