why are all manufactures getting away from blades???

[balc]

Just wondering why manufactures seem to be making blades order only.. Some call me a sadist but I am self taught 5-6 handicap and all I have ever owned is a blade and all titleist at that. I just purchased a blended set last year that are the ZBs and now informed those are now named something else but in doing some research most of the manufactures are getting away from mass marketing blades. the old adage about blades only being for the better players is bull. I am thoroughly pleased with blended set. The cavities in the 3 and 4 are easy to hit but I never had any trouble with my 690s or 695s either. I do see a much higher ball flight with the cavities than I do with my cut muscle or blades. just a thought. I mean are cavity backs all the future... I hope not for those that know the butter feel is like no other when hit on the spot....
Golfer by birth Titleist by choice

[sens13]

because the majority of sales come from cavity irons...not many players can hit blades well

[balc]

I know the old sayings but I think there false, my wife plays cobra and she hits my blades just as good as her mens cobra cavs better because of feel. I have given my clubs on several occassions and not said anything to playing partners on the range to see if my therory holds water. Most do well and almost all players carry a blade set for wedges. I guess my question would be better phrased as do companies really think blades can only be hit by better players or is it a notion derived from swing coachs in the big boys pockets. Bigger sweet spot doesnt mean anything if you cant swing the club correctly

[mpare]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Someone will keep manufacturing them. I can't see Titleist abandoning that field too quickly. It's a shame, though, that Cobra is or will be doing just that. I love my Cobra blades.

[BC MIST]

SCIENCE says that cavities are better. Because their resistance to twisting (MOI) is greater than that of a blade, balls that contact the face away from the percussion centre, will end up going a little farther and a little straighter than similar shots with a blade. Therefore, as a lower handicapped golfer, you are likely hitting most of your shots on or very close to the sweet spot and if you are, the results will be as good as a cavity and also likely feel better, too.

Some say that workability is better with a blade but if you are good enough to work the ball, again, if contact is being made on the sweet spot, regardless of head type, workability should be comparable.

So, playing cavities just increases the probability of a good shot, but does not guarantee it. They obviously should be the choice of a more novice type golfer.

[dbleber]

Not to mention that not only the average joe are buying and using cavity backs but a lot of tour players use them as well. Why? They are easier to hit, easier to get airborne and you don't loose as much distance and accuracy if you miss the sweet spot.

[balc]

I have heard of a few pros using cavs but in general most I thought were still on the blade trend. I understand the physics behind the cavs but in general. I can't work a ball with them as well. Launch is extremely high even if I cut my swing off. This would seem bad in windy conditions or judging distances. I did just read an interesting article about pros with new wedge grooves having to go back to judging distance by loft and traj not spin. OLD SCHOOL and I guess this theroy would be like playing a full set of cavs, You want something hard to hit try an old persimmon wood. My favorite golfers have always been Couple and Davis love. Those boys were slamming 300 yds when heads on drivers had not craked 300cc yet. I think my idea is you play what you learn. Ping started all of this!!! For better or worse I think all players should try blades before listening to some hack pro say what he has been taught that blades are only for low handicapers and vice versa

[Kilroy]

Why would you want less forgiving clubs as a high - mid handicapper? That is just making the game unnessesarily frustrating since they don't hit the ball on the sweetspot most of the time. Shaping shots better by playing blades is definately possible, but only for a highly skilled player. That same shapability is what adds up to wayward shots for probably greater than 90% of the people who buy clubs. Those players would be the target market. The pros are usually paid to play a brand. They are not customers.

When the answer eludes you just look at the bottom line. It's about money. In this case the bucks invested and earned from the 2 products. Blades won't make nearly as much money for them as cavity backs. Development and manufacturing costs would be about the same.

[balc]

But not all high handicapers do well with cavs and not all low handicaps do well with blades,I have one I play with that absolutly cant get comfy at setup with a cav. I guess that is where muscle backs come in(lol) oh well just my thoughts and your right the sport goes where the money is..life in general follows that creed.

[balc]

oh and as far as having a more forgiving club for high handicap, i look at that as the same thing going on with our schools here in America. If a kid cant pass do we make it easier so he hits the world after school lost because we made it easier for them. If your going to play and get better why not do it the old fashion way and learn the game mechanics not buy yourself a good score. Not meant to be as harsh as I sound but proper mechanics make for a better score. The pros complaining about the new grooves makes me sick too. what about jack and all of his majors with old school clubs..thats impressive
Just my Opinion

[BC MIST]

If you really believe that playing more forgiving cavities is "buying a better score," am I then correct in assuming that in addition to playing blades, that you also play a 200 cc, persimmon driver with a steel shaft, rather than 460 cc, Ping G15, high MOI driver with a graphite shaft? And a Bullseye putter instead of an Odyssey SRT, and a balata ball versus a ProV1?

While there is no doubt that today's drivers make poor shots better, they don't make them perfect and the amount of forgiveness in a cavity back iron versus a blade is grossly exaggerated to 'encourage' golfers to buy the latest. Playing more aesthetically appealing, "old" fashioned designed equipment is a choice, equal to the choice that others make in choosing cavities. Considering that the "average" golfer still struggles to break 100, it's good that equipment advances have helped to make an extremely hard game, a little less hard, but it has not made an extremely hard game, easy. Besides, if Tiger Woods did not play blades, they would have disappeared a long time ago. But now that Tiger has disappeared, blades may become collector's items.

Learning proper swing mechanics has nothing to do with the shape of the head nor with the material in the shaft or ball.

[goochy]

oh and as far as having a more forgiving club for high handicap, i look at that as the same thing going on with our schools here in America. If a kid cant pass do we make it easier so he hits the world after school lost because we made it easier for them. If your going to play and get better why not do it the old fashion way and learn the game mechanics not buy yourself a good score. Not meant to be as harsh as I sound but proper mechanics make for a better score.

Wow...lets just go back to hickory shafts, these new graphite thingies are just too easy to hit....and those new high spin balls, we should all have to learn with an old feathery...if you can smack that, you can smack a ProV1 anyday...and don't even get me started on using a tee, whats wrong with a mound of earth like the old days (at least Henrik Stenson got that right)...and marking balls on the green, etc etc etc

Come on mate...Most people (Me included) play golf for fun, they want to enjoy being outside, with their mates, trying to be an Ok golfer and come back week after week. Technology, including CB irons, unquestionable make the game easier and therefore more enjoyable for the majority of players....not every one wants to be a scratch golfer or even a purist

The reason manufactorers are making less blades is simply that people are not buying them, for the same reason they're not buying 300cc drivers and circa 1930 putters.

[balc]

I think youguys have me wrong, golf is and should be fun and as far as Tiger, I hope he stays gone..gone are the true gentleman of the game. Golf was a gentlemans sport and your right cavs or blades are one personal choice and in that I want to point out what I was trying to say is that it should be something chosen not because soome pinhead on tv or at a proshop says you need. PROPER swing mechanics are the only way to get better and the guys I play most with are all high handicappers and we all have fun. Your score should never dictate your enjoyment if it does your no better than that idiot woods. I bet he hasnt enjoyed a round in years because he takes it so seriously and as far as the comment about tiger keeping blades around, hummmm I leave that one alone. Freddy Couples has been a gentleman through wins and losses,through the loss of a wife, and back problems, he has never turned his back on the press media,the fans, or any of his fellow competitors and there are plenty of people like him on the tour but they are dying out as the new generations are more and more like He who must not be named(lol). I dont want us to go back tech wise but I also dont want golf to be like Americans who get a bad name for wanting it all right now type attitude. Golf is a game that even the masters like hogan,watson,palmer,nickalaus, all would admit can never be mastered it is humbling in its origins and to dumb that down by rewarding mis and bad swing mechanics is wrong or atleast my opinion.

[marcf]

I think youguys have me wrong, golf is and should be fun and as far as Tiger, I hope he stays gone..gone are the true gentleman of the game. Golf was a gentlemans sport and your right cavs or blades are one personal choice and in that I want to point out what I was trying to say is that it should be something chosen not because soome pinhead on tv or at a proshop says you need. PROPER swing mechanics are the only way to get better and the guys I play most with are all high handicappers and we all have fun. Your score should never dictate your enjoyment if it does your no better than that idiot woods. I bet he hasnt enjoyed a round in years because he takes it so seriously and as far as the comment about tiger keeping blades around, hummmm I leave that one alone. Freddy Couples has been a gentleman through wins and losses,through the loss of a wife, and back problems, he has never turned his back on the press media,the fans, or any of his fellow competitors and there are plenty of people like him on the tour but they are dying out as the new generations are more and more like He who must not be named(lol). I dont want us to go back tech wise but I also dont want golf to be like Americans who get a bad name for wanting it all right now type attitude. Golf is a game that even the masters like hogan,watson,palmer,nickalaus, all would admit can never be mastered it is humbling in its origins and to dumb that down by rewarding mis and bad swing mechanics is wrong or atleast my opinion.

What does Tiger's personal life have to do with Golf? I thought this was about blades and equipment. Tiger Woods is still potentially the best golfer to play the game at the professional level. If you are going to start a thread about equipment, stick to equipment, if you want to talk about Tiger, go to one of the million blogs about it out there now. As for the Couples comment, do you really think you know any athlete by listening to a few 30 second sound bites? What's Freddies favorite TV Show? does he like spinich or lettuce better? Do you think he like blondes or redheads more? How do you know if he stopped talking to some of th guys on tour or not. You were not there, or were you? My point is that this is so typical now. You think you know someone baased on a few sound bites, but you don't. Do you really know what Jack, Arnie and the guys of that tour did off the course, after hours, when the age of the internet was a science fiction tale? YOU DON'T, and you can't convince me. Think of the tour back then, a lot more drinking, late nights and partying than now. We are in the age of fitness trailers, diets, and swing coaches, and yes, some bad decisions with their personal lives for some guys.

Stick to the topic...

PS... BC Mist is right with his points. Science shows that cavity backs are easier to hit, thus making the game MORE FUN for all levels. Not all players have time (or want) to work on your perceived "perfect swing mechanics."

[goochy]

Stick to the topic..."

right back at yer

[goochy]

I dont want us to go back tech wise but I also dont want golf to be like Americans who get a bad name for wanting it all right now type attitude. Golf is a game that even the masters like hogan,watson,palmer,nickalaus, all would admit can never be mastered it is humbling in its origins and to dumb that down by rewarding mis and bad swing mechanics is wrong or atleast my opinion.

I think I hear what you are saying and to some extent I agree with your sentiments but I don't think cavity backed irons are a replacement for a bad swing. A bad shot with a CB iron is still a bad shot, no technology will replace a sound technique. In my opinion all they do is make a bad contact a little less bad.

I think we would all agree that a sound swing is the most important thing to improving but anything that keeps players in the game and makes the game a tad less frustrating than it inherently is has got to be a good thing IMO

[marcf]

right back at yer

good point...lol...my bad.

[goochy]

good point...lol...my bad.

lol...

[balc]

wow, this got heated quick didnt it??? Actually this thread originated from a ongoing argument with a local pro and I, like I said he plays cavs and I give him grief over it all the time,In good fun. I hope to caddy for him at Q school in the next couple of years. As far as my OPINIONS, they are just that, In todays world it is hard to be a purist or traditionalist. I do understand the fitness parts as I spend 14 hrs a day doing finance and spend atleast two hrs a day doing yoga,or hitting balls,putting ect just to keepmy game where it is now. Golf is heading in that direction and I actually am glad it is but I mentioned Freddy just because Tiger was mentioned and him being the greatest golfer ever maybe..... of my generation(he and I are the same age) yeah I can agree with that. I am currently teaching my 10 year old daughter the game and I have cavs for her and support her in anything that will improve her game but I also want her to learn the physics and mechanics of the game and not rely on equipment to enforce bad habits. I want her to understand a bad swing =bad results...how else would she learn..SEVE another of my favorites learned the game with one club. I still hold him as one of the best mental players ever(Tiger doesnt hold a candle to him). Oh well again my opinion

[Sparkplug]

While I now play Muscle Back's (which are more of a blade), the decision for me comes down to my own performance. I choose clubs soley on how they perform for me.

I have played both CBs and MBs.

Every set I have owned has been fitted for me (length, lie, swingweight, grip size etc...) so I can say its not a question of fitting, which is the most important aspect.

I also checked my ego a long time ago and use 3&4 hybrids so I only play 5 iron down.

I simply play better with the Muscle Backs I have. I have tracked this over the last 2 seasons. Perhaps it is the smaller head, the generally weaker lofts and less offset but I just play better.

Personally I have better control over trajectory, distance and workability.

To each his own, but I always find it funny when playing that fellow golfers ask to hit my irons and are extremely suprised at how nice they feel and how well they hit the ball.

[balc]

I agree on the muscle backs which seem to be making a strong showing. tried a couple of Mizuno sets at a free demo and fitting day. My set of ZBs are close. I use blades for 7-lw Muscles for5 and 6 and 3 and 4 are cavity. I have a strange hybrid. i carry a 18 degree xtra stiff 909 with the shaft cut down. i use this from fairway bunkers rough, and the occasional chip to the green. A really strong hybrid but I can get 220-235 out of it on most days with a low low flight pattern(great for windy days)

[Sakuraba]

For about 5 years I've been wishing for a cavity back iron with minimal or no offset.

[calleygolf]

For the guy above me...check out Cobra Pro CB!

Your average guy doesn't break 100, those are the majority of golfers in the world hense the reason why more production of cavities exsists. It is just where the game has gone for average people.

However, as far as blades go there really isn't much you can do to a blade...move a bit of weight around but it always maintains the same basic design.

I don't think anyone who doesn't break 80 every day should have a full set of blades, but you have to take it case by case. If you have someone that doesn't break 80 but is puting time in at the range and is getting lessons and are working on his or her game, then perhaps blades are the way to go to help them get to that next level...that's a case I would completely agree with getting some blades.

But I have to say it is so frustrating when you hear someone saying they need to have blades to play well. If you're a good ball striker you should be able to put any sort of combination of club and shaft into your hands and make it work.

I'm a scratch player (used to be a +) and I played Titleist for years, I made the switch to Taylormade Smokes and I love them. But I wouldn't just recomend them to anyone, yah I find them forgiving but it's all relative, they are still small and you still need to hit the sweetspot just like anything else out there. You can give a golfer with a bad swing a shovel and they still may not hit the ball.

Not everything can be solved by an equipment change.

[Sparkplug]

[QUOTE=calleygolf;341062]
But I have to say it is so frustrating when you hear someone saying they need to have blades to play well. If you're a good ball striker you should be able to put any sort of combination of club and shaft into your hands and make it work.

- feel this comment was directed at me and would like to respond. I qualified my statement that I choose for performance and the clubs I play work best for me.

All sets of irons I have played have been fit for me. And yes I do play better with these.

As for technology, whic I welcome I also suggest that sometimes it does not work for an average golfer

Lofts are generraly stronger than traditional. Stronger lofts can be harderr to hit

Lengths of clubs are longer, if a modern 4 iron is the same as a tradional 3 iron it is jaust as hard to hit.

Progressive or more offset. It can reduce and eliminat a slice but can really introduce some wicked hooks and pulls as well.

More bounce. Not all players average good or beginner have o have stronger bounces and wider soles to hit the ball

Wights of clubs are lighter. Yes you get a faster swing speed but look at what can happen to tempo.

Cavity back design. I do agree that this really does help for miss hits. Especially in the last few years where other performance factors are not sacrificed as much

To close you have to get what is best for you not just take a game improvement iron just because you fall into a certain index rang.

A truly (that means really well fitted and formatted set , not length lie and flex only woulkd serve an average golfer better than an off the rack game improvement clubs.

Other than lessions and strategic practice, fitting wins over game improvement.

[calleygolf]

Sparkplug,

My first post was in no manner of insulting you or anyone in particular, I appologize if there was any offense taken. Please do not take it as a personal attack, but just one golfers oppinion much like your own.

Calleygolf

[lms]

For about 5 years I've been wishing for a cavity back iron with minimal or no offset.

They exist. One example (mine are several seasons old).

http://wishongolf.com/specifications/sets/560MC.htm

[Chieflongtee]

These discussions have been taking place for ages. In the end though does it not come down to the short game?????