Help or Advice Needed Immediately!!

[Indio]

Just want to thank everyone for their participation, and if you think of anything else, good bad, or ugly....please don't hesitate to write it, this thing is far from over!!!!

Keri - I believe that Indio meets these criteria........

2 out of 3 is a pretty good average

[Kiwi]

Not too sure that I can provide anything that will help you in your situation. Having been a police officer for 35+ years taught me that no two situations are alike so comparing what happened today to what happened yesterday is of no value. Here are some of my thoughts,
First, if you feel that you or your daughter have been "wronged" then you should dispute the ticket. It appears you feel strongly about this and if you don’t you will regret it. I suspect that if you do fight it, regardless of the outcome, you will be better informed, at the end, of the state of the law and your rights and responsibilities. Second, there is a basic principle in law that says "he who states must prove". This relates to your "belief" the charge was only laid because the other driver was a police officer. Warning, if you say this in court, then you better be able to prove it. If you can’t your case, and your credibility will suffer. Third, there is ALWAYS police officer discretion in laying a charge, whether the matter is a relatively minor motor vehicle accident or a criminal charge. The police officer’s actions are ALWAYS reviewed by a senior officer and in the case of a charge, by the Crown Attorney (in Ontario) who will make the ultimate decision as to whether there is a reasonable expectation for a conviction. This latter point does not always correlate to whether an offence has been committed, unfortunately. At the end of it all a Justice or a Judge will examine the evidence (not necessiarily the same as the facts) and make a ruling. Fourth, the charge as you have stated is probably the least serious offence your daughter may have been charged with. She may have been, depending on all the circumstances, charged with driving without due care an attention. Admittedly those charges are usually reserved for more serious offences. The fact remains, regardless of age or experience having a drivers licence is a privilege and the driver is responsible to drive their vehicle in a safe and responsible manner. The requirement to drive in consideration of the road and whether conditions is NOT an option. On any given day there are thousands of people driving in the same conditions who do NOT have accidents. Finally, as a former police officer I find it very disturbing to accuse people of actions simply because of their occupation. This is no different IMHO than suggesting all 17 year olds are reckless drivers.
I don’t know if you have resolved the issue of obtaining reports yet. For the police report, your daughter should have been given a copy. Your insurance company requires this. In the jurisdictions I worked the insurance company always contacted the police service and paid for a copy of the report. As for the tow company, I would contact them, although I don’t know what that would provide. The Fire Service should also be requested for a report, if one was prepared. Finally, again in my experience, the insurance companies do not always use the fact a ticket was issued to assign "blame". They have their own way of doing things and whether there was a ticket issued or not has little to do with their finding of "responsibility".
Accidents are traumatic events, for both the kids and parents. You are fortunate all you are talking about is metal and money. They can both be replaced. Best of luck.

[big mac]

Hi Kerry---In Kiwi"s post I think he has said it all. I have met Bruce and played a couple of rounds with him and IMHO the advice given is probably more from the person than from an ex policeman---with the explanation by an ex-policeman

Accidents happen--thats why we have the insurance to take care of the damages. I think if you fight---the cost in $$$$ and frustration will take more of a toll on you.

Just my .02

[kerisb]

Thank you Kiwi, yes I am finding out lots about the laws, and different situations.
And I want to make this very clear, I do not have anything against police officers, I think they are great, and am very happy to have them around, however, and it might just be some rose coloured glass think with me, but just like a firefighter, police officer, doctor, any professional like these, I do hold them in higher expectation than the average public person.

I also believe that this person identified himself as an officer immediately, then in my opinion used his powers to intimidate my daughter, and then myself. I have known many officers that were wonderful people and wonderful officers. But I have also known some that let the badge go to their head and thought they could intimidate people, and be above any wrong doing.

I would expect any officer, on duty or not to show some kind of compassion at the scene of an accident. My daughter and I both showed enough compassion to ask if he was alright.........he never once asked my daughter if she was ok. He just showed his displeasure in her. He also said he could see that she was very distraught at the scene..........well to me are police officers not trained on handling situations to maybe calm people down.

I may be way off base here, but I would hope that anyone in any accident would try to help the other person first, then deal with the vehicles and stuff later. First and foremost is the people's well being!!

[Kiwi]

Noted, you are entitled to your opinion and I don't question it. It has been my experience that when people become emotional they act in ways others may not expect. Police officers are the same as everyone else, they are human. And if they do not act as one would expect in a given circumstance that does not, IMHO, necessarily mean they have acted inappropriately.

[hoolio]

I have fought tickets and won, but I agree with Hacker that I think your best bet is to go to a traffic ticket specialist like POINTTS for a "free" consultation and take it from there. The only way you have a good chance of actually beating a traffic ticket is if the officer made a mistake - wrong date/time, wrong licence number, etc - and now that most cops have computers in their cars that rarely happens anymore.

Well I'm going to rehash this because I decided to get myself into a fender bender this morning, and the ticket which I was issued has a small error on it. The officer reported the year of the vehicle I was driving incorrectly. I can't see how this would allow me to get off anyway, but since I was planning on contesting the charge in court just hoping that she may not show up, I was just wondering if any error is worth something?

I'm glad to say that in contrast to the officer that kerisb dealt with, the officer who responded to my accident was very pleasant with me. Makes dealing with an annoying and likely costly incident a little bit easier than dealing with some *...

[justsomeguy]

Well I'm going to rehash this because I decided to get myself into a fender bender this morning, and the ticket which I was issued has a small error on it. The officer reported the year of the vehicle I was driving incorrectly. I can't see how this would allow me to get off anyway, but since I was planning on contesting the charge in court just hoping that she may not show up, I was just wondering if any error is worth something?

The wrong year is probably not enough, but you never know. When you get your court summons the charge will likely just specify "a vehicle bearing the license number of ____" - in which case I think you are SOL.

[hoolio]

I did a little googling and I think you're right. It appears that the court can correct a minor error on the ticket, but a major error is something that can get the ticket cancelled. Mine was definitely a minor error.

[Hacker]

Is it minor though?? Your Honor, I do NOT drive a 2006 Mazda 3, mine is a 2005........totally different car

[jonf]

I think that would depend on the car. Most model years display very little difference from year to year. If, however, it happened to be a year when a model underwent a major aesthetic overhaul, you might have a bit of an argument. But I think odds are this qualifies as a minor error, unfortunately (particularly if the damage caused by the fender bender was to the area of the car that underwent the aesthetic overhaul).

[jonf]

for example, if they wrote down that the car was a 1995 plymouth voyager and it was actually a 96, that would be a HUGE difference, and you'd have a bit of a case.

[hoolio]

Hard to say... They don't even make a 2009 version of the vehicle I was driving, but the offense notice doesn't list a model, just a make.

[justsomeguy]

I think that would depend on the car. Most model years display very little difference from year to year. If, however, it happened to be a year when a model underwent a major aesthetic overhaul, you might have a bit of an argument. But I think odds are this qualifies as a minor error, unfortunately (particularly if the damage caused by the fender bender was to the area of the car that underwent the aesthetic overhaul).

What matters is whether the vehicle has been accurately identified. If not, you may have enough to show reasonable doubt.

I fought and won a ticket with the wrong date. The officer presented his evidence first, which included the actual date of the incident. When I took the stand, I merely noted that the date on the charge was different than the date that was just presented into evidence, and that there seemed to be some confusion regarding the date of the incident. That was enough to show reasonable doubt. If the officer had presented the date on the charge into evidence (i.e., the wrong date), I actually would have had a tougher case.

I'm presuming the officer issued the ticket at the scene and noted the license number on the ticket. That license plate number is probably all that will be presented into evidence regarding the identity of the vehicle. I doubt that the make, year and colour of the vehicle will even appear on the charge or be mentioned in court.