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Thread: Advice - What Penalties.
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08-28-2007 08:34 AM #1
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Advice - What Penalties.
First hole is a par 3. A hits his ball out of bounds. B hits his ball on to the green. C and A both ask B, "What club did you hit. B answers, "A 4 iron."
Who gets penalized?
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08-28-2007 09:15 AM #2
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Once the first player in the group has hit a shot I would consider the stipulated round to have started and as --- “Advice’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. ----- I would penalize all three of them as "A" still has another shot to play and "C" hasn't hit anything yet and "B" gave the answer back to them. I know some are going to claim that "C's" stipulated round had not started but once "A" hit a shot as a member of the threesome the round has started.
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08-28-2007 02:15 PM #3
I do not know, but my feeling is that there shouldn't be a penalty for answering a question.
Wait a minute, is this a trick question BC?
Is the correct answer A because he has to hit 3 off the tee?Andrew
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08-28-2007 03:04 PM #4
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Providing you have given all the information.
All 3
B under 8-1a
A & C under 8-1b
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08-28-2007 03:44 PM #5
What if B answered "I didn't use my 4 iron"?
Andrew
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08-28-2007 03:49 PM #6
What if one of the players said "I hit that 4 iron as sweet as I could and still didn't get there" Would that still deserve a penalty?
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08-28-2007 03:53 PM #7
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8-1/8 Comment About Club Selection After Stroke
Q. After playing a stroke, a player says: “I should have used a 5-iron.” Was the player in breach of Rule 8-1?
A. If the statement was made casually, there was no breach. If the statement was made to another player who had a shot to play from about the same position, there was a breach.
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08-29-2007 02:01 AM #8
I thought it was ok to ask... just not to tell
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08-29-2007 08:23 AM #9
Nope. Both asking and giving advice are against the rules.
Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!
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08-29-2007 09:54 AM #10
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The golfer who raised this scenario insisted that because C had not started his stipulated round, that he was NOT subject to penalty, and that because A did not have a ball in play,(his first was OB), that he was immune, too.
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08-29-2007 01:25 PM #11
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Although C may not have made a stroke 'the' stipulated round had started.
A's ball was irelevant as he started the round as soon as he made a stroke.
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09-01-2007 02:41 PM #12
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This scenario was presented to a local RCGA rules official, one who writes for Flagstick, teaches the rules courses, and officiates in the major RCGA sponsored events.
Situation: First hole is a par 3.
A hits his ball out of bounds.
B hits his ball on to the green.
C and A both ask B, "What club did you hit.
B answers, "A 4 iron."
Ruling:
A - Two strokes
B - Two strokes
C - No penalty because his stipulated round had NOT started. He can ask anything he wants.
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09-01-2007 02:44 PM #13
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Hmmm !
The rule says 'the' stipulated round not 'his'.
Is there a difference ?
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09-01-2007 07:46 PM #14
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8 - 1 says during "a" stipulated round a player may not ask for nor give advice to anyone "playing on the course.". I guess that the assumption simply is that since C's round has not started, there is no penalty, even though the others are playing on the course. IMO it would be unfairly advantageous for C to have an answer to his question and for that he should be penalized for asking, but...
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09-02-2007 04:34 AM #15
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Yes, I ought to have realised. I already had a clue. A few months ago I had a ruling from the R&A confirming that if the second player in a fourball turned up late carrying 15 clubs. And walked along the course to catch up at the third (say), he would not be penalised until he made his first stroke although his partner was already into the stipulated round.
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09-28-2007 10:09 AM #16
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A hits his ball out of bounds.
B hits his ball on to the green.
C and A both ask B, "What club did you hit.
B answers, "A 4 iron."
Ruling:
A - Two strokes
B - Two strokes
C - No penalty because his stipulated round had NOT started. He can ask anything he wants.
Further to the above, would it make a difference if A's ball went into a hazard in front of the green instead of out of bounds? (gb will NOT answer!!!)
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09-28-2007 12:55 PM #17
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Neither A nor B are penalised as A does not have a similar shot to play
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09-28-2007 12:58 PM #18
AAA, what if A chooses to play his next stroke from the tee box?
Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!
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09-28-2007 02:21 PM #19
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Good call JV ...
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09-28-2007 02:47 PM #20
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jv
8-1/7 seems to have no problem with the possibility.
But I take your point.
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09-29-2007 02:58 AM #21
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I would tend to think that this senerio isnt covered by a decision...
And seeing as player A still has the option of playing from the tee again , asking for the club used , and being told , will see player A and B cop penalties
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09-29-2007 07:05 AM #22
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BC's scenario
From the tee
A hits his ball into hazard in front of green
B hits his ball on to the green.
Decision "A plays his second shot which lands on the green. B does likewise. A then asks B what club he used for his second shot."
Apart from the difference between playing from the tee and playing his second shot what is the difference between the two situations.
In the first the player's ball lands in a hazard (bunker or water ?), in the second the player's ball lands on the green. In either case the player may wish to play again (under penalty) from the original position. I don't see why the decision doesn't apply.
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09-29-2007 02:12 PM #23
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If I hit a ball into a hazard , which will leave me an awkward 40mtr flop over trees to the gree , a shot I mightnt be comfortable playing , and I could take relief from the hazard by returning to the tee
But I'm also not sure which club to use , maybe its my 3iron ....but I'm prone to slicing it , back into the hazard maybe argh...
"hey B , what club did you hit there?" B says "my 5iron"
I think "hmmmm , 5iron , thats my 'goto' club , sweet , back to the tee it is"
B's has given A advice that may influence his play of the hole , A asked for that advice , both penalised
I know it might be looked at case by case and may not help the player , but IMO in fairness to the rest of the feild , both players have breached the rules
One could argue in the decision you mentioned player A might declare his ball on the green unplayable and go back to replay the shot , be in reality that wont happen , in the hazard senerio , its very possible
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