How many points will Crosby score his rookie season?

[SGH]

No problem! I'm a huge Caps fan, and am extremely excited to see how they build their team. As a result, I'm more than eagre to see Ovechkin on the ice and see how he compares. I'll cheer Crosby as a fellow Canadian should, but it's no secret who my loyalties are with.


As for the cap room, teams like Washington and Buffalo had better hurry - there's not much left!

[mberube]

No problem! I'm a huge Caps fan, and am extremely excited to see how they build their team. As a result, I'm more than eagre to see Ovechkin on the ice and see how he compares. I'll cheer Crosby as a fellow Canadian should, but it's no secret who my loyalties are with.


As for the cap room, teams like Washington and Buffalo had better hurry - there's not much left!

That’s exactly what I was thinking. What are they waiting for? Do they think this kid is going to do everything on his own?

[SGH]

I'm not sure what their logic is, but it seems flawed. They have the market and the money to buy players like Roenick, Foresburg, etc. You'd have to think that any NHL vet would be excited to play with good young talent also, making it attractice. Perhaps they are waiting till things cool down and guage where the contracts are at. It's hard to measure what a middle of the road player is worth right now, as the relative scale has been skewed due to the new CBA. That being said, and getting back on topic of Mr. Crosby, anyone care to explain how rookie contracts work under the new CBA?

That’s exactly what I was thinking. What are they waiting for? Do they think this kid is going to do everything on his own?

[mberube]

If I am not mistaken it’s a base price of $800 000 and change plus bonuses that can climb up to over $2 000 000 or something like that.

[broken27]

I'm not sure what their logic is, but it seems flawed. They have the market and the money to buy players like Roenick, Foresburg, etc. You'd have to think that any NHL vet would be excited to play with good young talent also, making it attractice. Perhaps they are waiting till things cool down and guage where the contracts are at. It's hard to measure what a middle of the road player is worth right now, as the relative scale has been skewed due to the new CBA. That being said, and getting back on topic of Mr. Crosby, anyone care to explain how rookie contracts work under the new CBA?

A few teams are doing this, including Ottawa, Toronto and maybe Washington...

This year there is a big FA crop, but next year the unrestricted crop will have names like Joe Thornton and other younger players (Lecavalier) unrestricted. Last thing you want to do is sign a 37-year old to a retirement contract, then have no cap space NEXT offseason when we find out what the REAL damage of the lockout was... Remember, the cap is more likely to go DOWN next season....

Cheers,
Dan
PS - I have the above post on good authority from an agent I've been speaking to today...

[broken27]

That’s what they said about St-Louis. He was never drafted cause he was too small and fragile. I can make a list of very small player that had great carers in the NHL. None of then had the talent Sid has.

I can also name big boys that hid on the bench when the big boys came to play, Yashin come to mind.

Time will tell.

Mike

St. Louis is a one-hit wonder, just watch...

As far as "time will tell", that's what I've been saying all along!!! I am not expecting Crosby to be a walk-on saviour, YOU GUYS are...

Ovechkin playing 4 years of pro indicates that he can take the licks. If you've read anything at all about him from reliable scouting services like CSB and ISS, you'd know that Oveckhin has a bit of a mean streak as well... Certainly not the ***** that the Canadian and American media made him out to be... Realistically his poor perception is based almost entirely on his gesture to the American fans when he scored on the US. Personally, I thought that was FANTASTIC!!!!

We need more Ovechkins, Jagrs, Kovalchuks and Havlats, and less Gary Roberts and Jeremy Roenicks. Put the "show" back in "showmanship".

Dan
PS - I don't personally care which of the two kids has more points. Ovechkin will still have a team to play for next season, whereas after the stupid spending spree the Pens are on they will likely be bankrupt. (CuJo and Kariya and the most recent contract offers they have made at $3.5M per season each...)

[Big Johnny69]

Can't say it looks promising for that other Ontario team. Only 9 guys under contract and already at 28.5 million whereas Philly has 16 (and mostly quality) guys under contract and are at only just over 29 million. Fergie better get creative with his spending.

[SGH]

A few teams are doing this, including Ottawa, Toronto and maybe Washington...

This year there is a big FA crop, but next year the unrestricted crop will have names like Joe Thornton and other younger players (Lecavalier) unrestricted. Last thing you want to do is sign a 37-year old to a retirement contract, then have no cap space NEXT offseason when we find out what the REAL damage of the lockout was... Remember, the cap is more likely to go DOWN next season....

Cheers,
Dan
PS - I have the above post on good authority from an agent I've been speaking to today...

Dan,

Those are great points, and I hadn't thought of it in those terms. If I understand you right, Washington may play with a low-calibre crop of youngsters this year, and then wait until next year's crop of FA are looking to sign when the cap is lower and consequently max contracts are even lower? That sounds good to me, and as both an Ottawa and Washington fan, I must say that it speaks of a positive future for both clubs.

[mberube]

I don’t think it will matter if they wait next year. The salary bar has been set. Free agents next year will want to have the same amount of money as the equivalent player that signed this year. Thornton, Lecavalier and other NHL stars will sign with the team that gives them the most $$$$. My guess is that there wont be only 2-3 teams in line.

SGH, why a Caps fan. I’m just curious.

Mike

[SGH]

Have been a Bondra fan for as long as I can remember, and had the pleasure of meeting him last summer. When he was traded to Ottawa, I was more than happy - but i didn't expect him to play so poorly. Was also a fan of Dale Hunter, Jim Carrey, and all the guys from the mid to late nineties. My loyalty has been tested in recent years, but I am excited to see where they go now with Ovechkin and all this newly found cap room.

I don’t think it will matter if they wait next year. The salary bar has been set. Free agents next year will want to have the same amount of money as the equivalent player that signed this year. Thornton, Lecavalier and other NHL stars will sign with the team that gives them the most $$$$. My guess is that there wont be only 2-3 teams in line.

SGH, why a Caps fan. I’m just curious.

Mike

[broken27]

Dan,

Those are great points, and I hadn't thought of it in those terms. If I understand you right, Washington may play with a low-calibre crop of youngsters this year, and then wait until next year's crop of FA are looking to sign when the cap is lower and consequently max contracts are even lower? That sounds good to me, and as both an Ottawa and Washington fan, I must say that it speaks of a positive future for both clubs.

That's exactly it. Sometimes though, a team might just have a lot of free agents in their own roster coming up next season (Ottawa have Redden and Chara in the next couple years), and might want to preserve cap space.

The main thing, as I point out in my article on thefourthperiod, is that revenues will drop the cap DOWN next season. Damage has been done. By staying at the targeted $34M mark, Ottawa insures that they will have money next season for those big FAs.

Cheers, and enjoy Oveckin. He's outstanding!

Dan

[mberube]

That's exactly it. Sometimes though, a team might just have a lot of free agents in their own roster coming up next season (Ottawa have Redden and Chara in the next couple years), and might want to preserve cap space.

The main thing, as I point out in my article on thefourthperiod, is that revenues will drop the cap DOWN next season. Damage has been done. By staying at the targeted $34M mark, Ottawa insures that they will have money next season for those big FAs.

Cheers, and enjoy Oveckin. He's outstanding!

Dan

There is something I don’t understand. Why will the cap drop next year?

Dan, Question. Why do you hate North American players that much or is it only my assumption.

Mike

[broken27]

There is something I don’t understand. Why will the cap drop next year?

Dan, Question. Why do you hate North American players that much or is it only my assumption.

Mike

The cap will drop next year because the cap is a number derived in relation to revenues from the prior season. They established this year's cap based on theortetical revenues that were slightly lower than those reported in the Levitt Report. Next year, we're going to see lowered end-of-season revenues for the 2005-06 year because of the lockout and the attrition and resentment (fan backlash, sponsor backlash, TV contracts etc). So the 54% figure used to calculate the threshholds will be significantly lower (i.e ~$34M).

Cheers,
Dan
PS - I don't hate North American players, I hate the North American game. Imagine the cooincidence that the North American game is played primarily by North Americans!!! I'd bet this is as coincidental as when Lou Gehrig found out he had Lou Gehrig's disease! My favourite player of all time is North American (Yzerman). I say Jagr is the BEST, or most SKILLED, not my favourite.

[mberube]

The cap will drop next year because the cap is a number derived in relation to revenues from the prior season. They established this year's cap based on theortetical revenues that were slightly lower than those reported in the Levitt Report. Next year, we're going to see lowered end-of-season revenues for the 2005-06 year because of the lockout and the attrition and resentment (fan backlash, sponsor backlash, TV contracts etc). So the 54% figure used to calculate the threshholds will be significantly lower (i.e ~$34M).

Cheers,
Dan
PS - I don't hate North American players, I hate the North American game. Imagine the cooincidence that the North American game is played primarily by North Americans!!! I'd bet this is as coincidental as when Lou Gehrig found out he had Lou Gehrig's disease! My favourite player of all time is North American (Yzerman). I say Jagr is the BEST, or most SKILLED, not my favourite.

What do you think about Zigmund Palffy signing in Pitts.

I also heard that season tickets are selling like hot cakes in Pitts.

My prediction is that Mario will sing at a very low salary to free up some money for UFA.

[broken27]

What do you think about Zigmund Palffy signing in Pitts.

I also heard that season tickets are selling like hot cakes in Pitts.

My prediction is that Mario will sing at a very low salary to free up some money for UFA.

Mario Lemieux is a bit of a fraud in this respect. He can pay himself the difference as the owner. That way he bypasses the cap completely. He pays himself one penny as a player, then $10M as an owner (for example)...

But ticket sales in Pittsburgh will have very little effect on the overall cap picture for next season. It's a small market with a small arena. The big money is being lost on merchandising and TV.

As for Palffy being in Pittsburgh? Well, he's now the best player on the Pens instead of the Kings... Good ol' Slovak boy I wish had signed in Ottawa, but we'll kick their asses anyway...

Dan
PS - Nobody else shares my opinion that Mario is covering his bases by signing all this talent? He knows he can't play more than a handful of games per season I think, and this is his insurance plan for Crosby. I hope I'm right, because otherwise it's just bad economics.

[powerlefty]

Mario Lemieux is a bit of a fraud in this respect. He can pay himself the difference as the owner. That way he bypasses the cap completely. He pays himself one penny as a player, then $10M as an owner (for example)...

He can't simply pay himself the difference. When Mario returned he played his first year at the league average salary specifically to avoid this situation. It was a negotiated agreement between the NHL/NHLPA. His next year he played for a higher amount and I believe that was also subject to agreement with the PA. As for cheating the salary cap and paying himself 1 penny while taking $10M as an owner, I'm afraid it just does not work that way. Lemiuex is not THE owner of the Pens, he leads an ownership group. In order for him to make $10M the Pens would have to either net far, far, more than that (highly unlikley), or the rest of the ownership group (which I believe includes some banks) would have to agree to pay him while taking a bath themselves (also not a likley scenario given the attitude of banks). What certainly could happen is Lemieux being paid a reasonable salary as a player and then receiveing a reasonable fee as the Pres and CEO of the Pens as well as receiving his share of any dividends the team wishes to pay its shareholders as a result of operations this year.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, it is certainly in Lemieux's best interest to contnue playing as he does continue to enhance the franchise value and its ability to make money.

[The Shtick]

Lemieux has a 5 percent stake in the team....

[mberube]

Lemieux has a 5 percent stake in the team....

Mario is the majority shareholder of the Pitts. William (Boots) DelBiaggio, a businessman from San Jose, was the major shareholder and has sold back most of the shares to the Lemieux group making him the decision man.

Mike

[broken27]

He can't simply pay himself the difference. When Mario returned he played his first year at the league average salary specifically to avoid this situation. It was a negotiated agreement between the NHL/NHLPA. His next year he played for a higher amount and I believe that was also subject to agreement with the PA. As for cheating the salary cap and paying himself 1 penny while taking $10M as an owner, I'm afraid it just does not work that way. Lemiuex is not THE owner of the Pens, he leads an ownership group. In order for him to make $10M the Pens would have to either net far, far, more than that (highly unlikley), or the rest of the ownership group (which I believe includes some banks) would have to agree to pay him while taking a bath themselves (also not a likley scenario given the attitude of banks). What certainly could happen is Lemieux being paid a reasonable salary as a player and then receiveing a reasonable fee as the Pres and CEO of the Pens as well as receiving his share of any dividends the team wishes to pay its shareholders as a result of operations this year.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, it is certainly in Lemieux's best interest to contnue playing as he does continue to enhance the franchise value and its ability to make money.

You can argue all you like. Last season he paid himself more as CEO and President (if you don't like "owner" as the term of payment) than as a player, and paid himself about the league average because it works better for tax purposes. It doesn't matter, there is definitely a situation there that has conflict of interest written all over it. Not to say he'll exploit it, but it DOES exist...

Either way, the rumours of Pittsburgh going after Stumpel, Burke and another scoring forward make me laugh. This from a team that cried poor all of the past 5 seasons. Sure. Fold them up, or give the team to someone with some common sense.

Dan

[dbleber]

I can't believe all this Ovechkin talk! Did nobody here watch the World Jrs? Or did you forget about Ovechkin crying like a little girl and out for the game with a "shoulder injury", or how about his great performance when he dove for the camera and laid on the ice like he was shot only to be on the next shift. Ovechkin is a kocking kid with no class, trust me the leagues big guns will be head hunting him a lot more then Crosby. The is a lot of hype around Crosby considering he hasn't played a NHL game yet but he handles himself with class, the big boys will respect that. As for shutting down a player how many points did Ovechkin have in the gold medal game?
Crosby is a long term pick, more like a Sackic, Yzerman or Ignila. Ovechkin is like a Bure or even Jagr, he will have a few great seasons but will end being another European player with no heart.

[broken27]

I can't believe all this Ovechkin talk! Did nobody here watch the World Jrs? Or did you forget about Ovechkin crying like a little girl and out for the game with a "shoulder injury", or how about his great performance when he dove for the camera and laid on the ice like he was shot only to be on the next shift. Ovechkin is a kocking kid with no class, trust me the leagues big guns will be head hunting him a lot more then Crosby. The is a lot of hype around Crosby considering he hasn't played a NHL game yet but he handles himself with class, the big boys will respect that. As for shutting down a player how many points did Ovechkin have in the gold medal game?
Crosby is a long term pick, more like a Sackic, Yzerman or Ignila. Ovechkin is like a Bure or even Jagr, he will have a few great seasons but will end being another European player with no heart.

Well, last I looked, those "heartless Europeans" (you sound as stupid as Cherry with that comment) made up 6 of the to 10 scorers in the NHL last season.

I watched the World Juniors, and I saw Ovechkin OWNING the ice. You can comment about class if you like, but the same things were said about Kovalchuk, who is now considered a consensus pick to win the Art Ross and Maurice Richard trophies. Shutting him down for one game is no big accomplishment. Crosby was shut down on more than one occasion in the Memorial Cup, so I guess he's got no heart either, huh?

I know who my money is on... I'll send you a copy of the magazine...

Dan

[mberube]

Crosby is in town for the Penguins' rookie orientation camp along with five other prospects. But the focus will be solely on him. He's being asked to help save a franchise that needs a new rink and has been an NHL doormat for three seasons.
Asked by a local TV reporter whether he was going to save the entire NHL, Crosby, again coolly, answered: ''I don't think so. I think with no season last year, the NHL is going to look at many players to bring interest back to the game. I believe I'll be one of those guys but I don't think that I have the whole NHL on my back.
''There's lots of good players.''

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=133064

WOW!!! How much pressure is this kid facing. I hope he delivers cause if not the sky will drop on his shoulders and stay there for his whole carer.

[dbleber]

Well, last I looked, those "heartless Europeans" (you sound as stupid as Cherry with that comment) made up 6 of the to 10 scorers in the NHL last season.

I watched the World Juniors, and I saw Ovechkin OWNING the ice. You can comment about class if you like, but the same things were said about Kovalchuk, who is now considered a consensus pick to win the Art Ross and Maurice Richard trophies. Shutting him down for one game is no big accomplishment. Crosby was shut down on more than one occasion in the Memorial Cup, so I guess he's got no heart either, huh?

I know who my money is on... I'll send you a copy of the magazine...

Dan

You obviously like a different style of hockey then I do. I don't like stick work, diving and just overall wussy hockey which is what the european leagues are famous for. I like gritty tough players who score lots of points but are not whiny and show class when winning and lossing. Crosby was not shut down in the Memorial cup, he dominated in every game except the finals where his whole team came out flat against a very talented and experienced London team. Ovechkin didn't even come close to owning the JR's and his display in the finals made me sick. Kovalchuk is a great scorer but I would take Heatley for a hockey player any day, there is more to being a good hockey player then being a fancy pants kocky scorer. I give most of those guys 1 hit and they will be done, Crosby will take his licks and keep on going he just seems to want it more.

[The Shtick]

dbleber :readheart Lindros :readheart

[SGH]

Crosby has his moments where he whines and complains as well. These are well documented moments of immaturity, and you can not deny them. I agree that Crosby is a classy player off the ice, but his on ice stick smashing denies him the title as a classy on ice competitor.

As for Ovechkin being arogant, he has somewhat earned that right while playing overseas. Give him a chance to see how he reacts to this new challenge. He was a man among boys and now the shoe's on the other foot. Be patient, and give the kid a chance.

As for the Russian vs. North American hockey argument, that's about as outdated as it gets. Those stereotypes have no place in hockey talk nowadays - just as Don Cherry has no business being on TV (beyond Quizno's plugs of course).

[The Shtick]

I think you and your M&M friend are spending a little bit to much time smokin! Where did you get Lindros from, did the little yellow M&M whisper in your ear in a foggy haze or what?

I'm joking bud.

As soon as I read "I give most of those guys 1 hit and they will be done" I thought of the one hit wonder himself, Eric Lindros.

[dbleber]

I'm joking bud.

As soon as I read "I give most of those guys 1 hit and they will be done" I thought of the one hit wonder himself, Eric Lindros.

It actually took 8 hits and I will laugh my ass off if the leafs sign that mush-head!

[The Shtick]

It actually took 8 hits and I will laugh my ass off if the leafs sign that mush-head!

They just did!!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=133156

[dbleber]

That's funny! I wonder if he will make past pre-season!

[broken27]

That's funny! I wonder if he will make past pre-season!

Your opinon of European hockey makes me laugh. How come all these great hockey players from Canada did jack-squat over in Russia? Sure, you can dominate a Swiss league... YAY...

FYI - Kovalchuk is a big boy, and I doubt it'll take one hit to knock him out. Same for Ovechkin, who is much bigger than Crosby.

Seems to me we lose more NA players to concussion than anyone else...

Lindros with the Loafs... Perfect fit. They're probably negotiating with Pavel Bure as we speak!

Dan

PS - dbleber: I'd say it's fair to assume we're not going to agree about particular styles of hockey, so I'm going to just drop it. Cheers.