How many points will Crosby score his rookie season?

**mberube** · 08-02-2005 03:24 PM

**faldo** · 08-02-2005 04:40 PM

Will be sent back to the Oceanic for seasoning....

**broken27** · 08-02-2005 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by faldo

Will be sent back to the Oceanic for seasoning....

LMFAO!!! Nice one!!! That'd crack me up for sure... Already have a bet that Ovechkin will score more goals...

Dan

**mberube** · 08-03-2005 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by broken27

LMFAO!!! Nice one!!! That'd crack me up for sure... Already have a bet that Ovechkin will score more goals...

Dan

He will never go back to junior hockey. That would be a waist of talent.

As for Ovechkin scoring more goals…maybe but more points…not a chance. Certainly not if Crosby plays with Mario and Marc on the first line.

Who is Ovechkin going to play with? Zubrus and Klepis????

my F$%?

off!!!

**broken27** · 08-03-2005 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by mberube

He will never go back to junior hockey. That would be a waist of talent.

As for Ovechkin scoring more goals…maybe but more points…not a chance. Certainly not if Crosby plays with Mario and Marc on the first line.

Who is Ovechkin going to play with? Zubrus and Klepis????

my F$%?

off!!!

And when Mario falls apart 14 games into the season, what happens to Crosby's point total?

Besides which, any pansy can get assists if they just play with good enough players. Get some goals if you want to impress me... You can't win a game on assists.

Many people forget that while Sid the Kid was playing junior hockey, Ovechkin was playing against men (including many NHLers last season) in the Russian Super League. I'd say he's far more ready to play at the top level than Sidney. Not to say either will necessarily outperform the other, but let's be honest here...

Dan
PS - I am also thoroughly aware that Crosby will not return to junior... Not that it'd be a waste of talent, but because the Penguins are trying to capitalize on him as early as possible.

**mberube** · 08-03-2005 09:12 AM

My opinion on why he will not return at the Junior level is that he has accomplished everything possible and he would not learn anything significant. He would learn a lot more in the AHL or in Europe as Ovechkin did.

I also agree that Ovechkin is more ready for the NHL then Crosby. It certainly helped playing in the Russian elite league last year. The calibre was very high.

Both players were prolific goal scorers throughout there carers. The problem with Ovechkin is that when the going goes rough, the Russian get hiding. Did you watch the Junior gold medal final this year. Ovechkin was nowhere to be found.

Crosby can take the hits and still make an impact on the game.

Mario leaving after 14 games remains to be seen. The fact is that at the moment Marc and Mario are present. Nobody close to that talent can play with Ovechkin at the moment.

I would not be surprise not to say disappointed if WC don’t pick up somebody to play with Ovechkin but for the moment it looks better for Sid the Kid.

**mberube** · 08-03-2005 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by broken27

Besides which, any pansy can get assists if they just play with good enough players. Get some goals if you want to impress me... You can't win a game on assists.

That statement I don’t agree with. I played good hockey during my short hockey carer. I was a goal scorer. I never thought I was the talented player on the team although I got the credit. I my eyes the talented player was my left-winger that always found the way to find my blade at the right time. At that moment, it was easy to put the puck in the net. The real talented player finds a way to control the play, bring everybody to him and feed the open player at the right time.

A friend of mine, Christian Mate, played for the Colorado organisation. He was a great AHLer. He is a natural goal scorer. He also played in Europe a couple of years. He once told me that any one could score goals there eyes closed playing with Sakic or Forsberg on their line. They always seemed to put the puck on your stick at the right moment.

Sorry but you don’t score goals without assists.

**Golfbum** · 08-03-2005 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by faldo

Will be sent back to the Oceanic for seasoning....

I beg to differ with you on that comment. He will be on the bench and ice to sell tickets! Mario and Company need CASH

However it should be interesting to see how he makes out. I am sure some of you watched Brandon Prust and his checking line of the London Knights shut down Sydney and Company in the Memorial Cup Final. It will get even tighter in the NHL.

But then again with the redline gone maybe he can light it up.

**1972Apex** · 08-03-2005 12:56 PM

I think it's time for Dan Kilbank to start up www.OttawaHockey.com
Should be a goldmine!

**jonf** · 08-04-2005 12:47 AM

Crosby will wipe the floor with Ovechkin in every offensive category. It doesn't matter if Lemieux does get injured, a great player will make all those around him better. He did it in junior, and Crosby will eventually do it in the NHL. He's not going to leap out to a 100 point season, but he will leave the Ovechkin in his dust, hiding his tears behind that stupid mirrored visor of his

**broken27** · 08-04-2005 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by jonf

Crosby will wipe the floor with Ovechkin in every offensive category. It doesn't matter if Lemieux does get injured, a great player will make all those around him better. He did it in junior, and Crosby will eventually do it in the NHL. He's not going to leap out to a 100 point season, but he will leave the Ovechkin in his dust, hiding his tears behind that stupid mirrored visor of his

Sure thing bud... You clearly don't watch any hockey at all if you believe this. Wait to see how Crosby holds up to a hit from Scott Stevens (who they play a TON this season).... At least Ovechkin has played with men before...

We'll see...

Wish I could discuss it more, but I have to get back on the phones to track all the Free Agent signings....

Dan

**SGH** · 08-04-2005 11:45 AM

Have to agree with Dan on this one. Ovechkin will win rookie of the year in my opnion, and I am interested to see how Crosby's body holds up over the course of a season. Don't get me wrong, as a Canadian, I want nothing but the best for Crosby, but I feel he has more to prove that Ovechnkin, and may have a harder time doing it. You have to respect Ovechkin's skill and speed.

That being said however, will Washington even have a team come October? As of this morning, they didn't even have enough players for one line, and I've heard nothing concerning any pick-ups. As TSN said, if you have your own stick and skates, give Washington a call, they're looking.

**mberube** · 08-04-2005 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by SGH

Have to agree with Dan on this one. Ovechkin will win rookie of the year in my opnion, and I am interested to see how Crosby's body holds up over the course of a season. Don't get me wrong, as a Canadian, I want nothing but the best for Crosby, but I feel he has more to prove that Ovechnkin, and may have a harder time doing it. You have to respect Ovechkin's skill and speed.

That being said however, will Washington even have a team come October? As of this morning, they didn't even have enough players for one line, and I've heard nothing concerning any pick-ups. As TSN said, if you have your own stick and skates, give Washington a call, they're looking.

As for what I have seen I think (in my opinion) that Crosby is stronger physically then Ovechkin. I compare Crosby and Forsberg in style of play. Both are very strong player, they can play with one hand on the stick and manipulate the player with the other. The other point is that he never gives up. When he is nailed to the boards, he will grind it out and try to grab the puck back. I have yet seen that from Ovechkin.

As for speed, both players are explosive but it is hard to say who is faster cause they have not played a lot against each other.

Rookie of the year? Hard to say but the Caps are already at 38 660 000$ in salaries with nobody to show for it. If Ovechkin wins rookie this year he will have earned it.

**SGH** · 08-04-2005 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by mberube

Hard to say but the Caps are already at 38 660 000$ in salaries with nobody to show for it. If Ovechkin wins rookie this year he will have earned it.

I don't think the Caps are at the cap (no pun intended) already. They have Kolzig signed for four and a half, then three other players for under 1M each. I realize they are paying half of Jager's salary, but that's still only 3.75M (approx). All tolled, they have four players signed to contracts, and one compensation package, for a total of just under 12M dollars. They have room to recruit some help.

**jonf** · 08-04-2005 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by broken27

Sure thing bud... You clearly don't watch any hockey at all if you believe this. Wait to see how Crosby holds up to a hit from Scott Stevens (who they play a TON this season).... At least Ovechkin has played with men before...

Dan

Scott Stevens is wicked, but you only have to worry about him when you're cutting across the blueline with your head down...and like any great playmaker, crosby always has his head up (at least as far as I've seen)

As for Ovechkin...he may have played with men before, but its not as if the Russian Elite League is hard hitting. Russian players get to the NHL, and half of them have this indignant look on their face when they first get hit big, as if they had never even heard of a bodycheck before. A slight exaggeration of course, but you get the idea

Ty Webb · 08-04-2005 12:42 PM

I have always found in the NHL that a great player (Lemieux, Jagr, etc) will get credited with an assist for just being on the ice when a goal is scored even if they didn't assist. Once saw a philly game where Lindros hopes the boards and skates to the net. A shot comes from the hash mark and hits the twine. He gets an assist?? Credit that to lazy officiating (he is good, he must have assisted)?

**powerlefty** · 08-04-2005 12:49 PM

Pittsburg just signed Andre Roy. Could he be Crosby's Dave Semenko???

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=132418

**broken27** · 08-04-2005 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ty Webb

I have always found in the NHL that a great player (Lemieux, Jagr, etc) will get credited with an assist for just being on the ice when a goal is scored even if they didn't assist. Once saw a philly game where Lindros hopes the boards and skates to the net. A shot comes from the hash mark and hits the twine. He gets an assist?? Credit that to lazy officiating (he is good, he must have assisted)?

Agreed, to an extent. I personally think they should do away with secondary assists completely. They mean nothing 90% of the time.

Of course, Jagr NEVER got credit for an assist he didn't earn....

Dan

**broken27** · 08-04-2005 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by jonf

Scott Stevens is wicked, but you only have to worry about him when you're cutting across the blueline with your head down...and like any great playmaker, crosby always has his head up (at least as far as I've seen)

As for Ovechkin...he may have played with men before, but its not as if the Russian Elite League is hard hitting. Russian players get to the NHL, and half of them have this indignant look on their face when they first get hit big, as if they had never even heard of a bodycheck before. A slight exaggeration of course, but you get the idea

Stevens is a lethal hitter ANYWHERE on the ice. Sure, his bread and butter is at the railroad tracks, but realistically he's one of the hardest hitters in the NHL.

As for Russians not being hitters, I think you'll find that there is quite a bit of physicality in RSL hockey (Volchenkov came from there). There just isn't the stupid goonery we get here in North America. If I'm not mistaken (which I could be), a fighting major carries an automatic one-game suspension in Russia... Ovechkin is also bigger (by quite a bit) than Crosby, so I wouldn't worry about him too much... He's played 4 years of pro hockey... Crosby? ZERO.

Ovechkin: 6'2" / 212lbs
Crosby: 5'10" / 180lbs.

Sounds like Cindy is in for an arse-whooping to me...

Dan

**mberube** · 08-04-2005 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by broken27

Stevens is a lethal hitter ANYWHERE on the ice. Sure, his bread and butter is at the railroad tracks, but realistically he's one of the hardest hitters in the NHL.

As for Russians not being hitters, I think you'll find that there is quite a bit of physicality in RSL hockey (Volchenkov came from there). There just isn't the stupid goonery we get here in North America. If I'm not mistaken (which I could be), a fighting major carries an automatic one-game suspension in Russia... Ovechkin is also bigger (by quite a bit) than Crosby, so I wouldn't worry about him too much... He's played 4 years of pro hockey... Crosby? ZERO.

Ovechkin: 6'2" / 212lbs
Crosby: 5'10" / 180lbs.

Sounds like Cindy is in for an arse-whooping to me...

Dan

That’s what they said about St-Louis. He was never drafted cause he was too small and fragile. I can make a list of very small player that had great carers in the NHL. None of then had the talent Sid has.

I can also name big boys that hid on the bench when the big boys came to play, Yashin come to mind.

Time will tell.

Mike

**dbleber** · 08-09-2005 01:40 PM

I can't believe all this Ovechkin talk! Did nobody here watch the World Jrs? Or did you forget about Ovechkin crying like a little girl and out for the game with a "shoulder injury", or how about his great performance when he dove for the camera and laid on the ice like he was shot only to be on the next shift. Ovechkin is a kocking kid with no class, trust me the leagues big guns will be head hunting him a lot more then Crosby. The is a lot of hype around Crosby considering he hasn't played a NHL game yet but he handles himself with class, the big boys will respect that. As for shutting down a player how many points did Ovechkin have in the gold medal game?
Crosby is a long term pick, more like a Sackic, Yzerman or Ignila. Ovechkin is like a Bure or even Jagr, he will have a few great seasons but will end being another European player with no heart.

**broken27** · 08-10-2005 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by dbleber

I can't believe all this Ovechkin talk! Did nobody here watch the World Jrs? Or did you forget about Ovechkin crying like a little girl and out for the game with a "shoulder injury", or how about his great performance when he dove for the camera and laid on the ice like he was shot only to be on the next shift. Ovechkin is a kocking kid with no class, trust me the leagues big guns will be head hunting him a lot more then Crosby. The is a lot of hype around Crosby considering he hasn't played a NHL game yet but he handles himself with class, the big boys will respect that. As for shutting down a player how many points did Ovechkin have in the gold medal game?
Crosby is a long term pick, more like a Sackic, Yzerman or Ignila. Ovechkin is like a Bure or even Jagr, he will have a few great seasons but will end being another European player with no heart.

Well, last I looked, those "heartless Europeans" (you sound as stupid as Cherry with that comment) made up 6 of the to 10 scorers in the NHL last season.

I watched the World Juniors, and I saw Ovechkin OWNING the ice. You can comment about class if you like, but the same things were said about Kovalchuk, who is now considered a consensus pick to win the Art Ross and Maurice Richard trophies. Shutting him down for one game is no big accomplishment. Crosby was shut down on more than one occasion in the Memorial Cup, so I guess he's got no heart either, huh?

I know who my money is on... I'll send you a copy of the magazine...

Dan

**mberube** · 08-11-2005 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by TSN QUOTE

Crosby is in town for the Penguins' rookie orientation camp along with five other prospects. But the focus will be solely on him. He's being asked to help save a franchise that needs a new rink and has been an NHL doormat for three seasons.
Asked by a local TV reporter whether he was going to save the entire NHL, Crosby, again coolly, answered: ''I don't think so. I think with no season last year, the NHL is going to look at many players to bring interest back to the game. I believe I'll be one of those guys but I don't think that I have the whole NHL on my back.
''There's lots of good players.''

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=133064

WOW!!! How much pressure is this kid facing. I hope he delivers cause if not the sky will drop on his shoulders and stay there for his whole carer.

**dbleber** · 08-11-2005 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by broken27

Well, last I looked, those "heartless Europeans" (you sound as stupid as Cherry with that comment) made up 6 of the to 10 scorers in the NHL last season.

I watched the World Juniors, and I saw Ovechkin OWNING the ice. You can comment about class if you like, but the same things were said about Kovalchuk, who is now considered a consensus pick to win the Art Ross and Maurice Richard trophies. Shutting him down for one game is no big accomplishment. Crosby was shut down on more than one occasion in the Memorial Cup, so I guess he's got no heart either, huh?

I know who my money is on... I'll send you a copy of the magazine...

Dan

You obviously like a different style of hockey then I do. I don't like stick work, diving and just overall wussy hockey which is what the european leagues are famous for. I like gritty tough players who score lots of points but are not whiny and show class when winning and lossing. Crosby was not shut down in the Memorial cup, he dominated in every game except the finals where his whole team came out flat against a very talented and experienced London team. Ovechkin didn't even come close to owning the JR's and his display in the finals made me sick. Kovalchuk is a great scorer but I would take Heatley for a hockey player any day, there is more to being a good hockey player then being a fancy pants kocky scorer. I give most of those guys 1 hit and they will be done, Crosby will take his licks and keep on going he just seems to want it more.

**The Shtick** · 08-11-2005 01:40 PM

dbleber :readheart Lindros :readheart

**The Shtick** · 08-11-2005 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by dbleber

I think you and your M&M friend are spending a little bit to much time smokin! Where did you get Lindros from, did the little yellow M&M whisper in your ear in a foggy haze or what?

I'm joking bud.

As soon as I read "I give most of those guys 1 hit and they will be done" I thought of the one hit wonder himself, Eric Lindros.

**SGH** · 08-11-2005 01:51 PM

Crosby has his moments where he whines and complains as well. These are well documented moments of immaturity, and you can not deny them. I agree that Crosby is a classy player off the ice, but his on ice stick smashing denies him the title as a classy on ice competitor.

As for Ovechkin being arogant, he has somewhat earned that right while playing overseas. Give him a chance to see how he reacts to this new challenge. He was a man among boys and now the shoe's on the other foot. Be patient, and give the kid a chance.

As for the Russian vs. North American hockey argument, that's about as outdated as it gets. Those stereotypes have no place in hockey talk nowadays - just as Don Cherry has no business being on TV (beyond Quizno's plugs of course).

**dbleber** · 08-11-2005 05:31 PM

That's funny! I wonder if he will make past pre-season!

**broken27** · 08-11-2005 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by dbleber

That's funny! I wonder if he will make past pre-season!

Your opinon of European hockey makes me laugh. How come all these great hockey players from Canada did jack-squat over in Russia? Sure, you can dominate a Swiss league... YAY...

FYI - Kovalchuk is a big boy, and I doubt it'll take one hit to knock him out. Same for Ovechkin, who is much bigger than Crosby.

Seems to me we lose more NA players to concussion than anyone else...

Lindros with the Loafs... Perfect fit. They're probably negotiating with Pavel Bure as we speak!

Dan

PS - dbleber: I'd say it's fair to assume we're not going to agree about particular styles of hockey, so I'm going to just drop it. Cheers.

**The Shtick** · 08-11-2005 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by broken27

They're probably negotiating with Pavel Bure as we speak!.

They could package up Bure and let's say.... Mark Messier!! Hell, bring back Brett Lindros just for fun! Ferguson is my hero!!!

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