The numbers don't Lie

[Andru]

Not trying to start a war but his blew my mind.

Major Wins for Tiger = 10

Major Wins for Els (3) Singh(3) Goosen(2) Mickelson (1) = 9

We're witnessing something really special here and we probably won't appreciate it till he's 60 and saying goodbye at St. Andrews.

Good Day

[NoBack]

And if you add the 9 from Annika
Really really amazing

[Hank Hill]

A truely great player and now a big worry for the rest of the big 4 (or 5).

[Colby]

Andru,

No-one that I have seen, at least not me, has ever said that Tiger is not talented. I don't like the fact that his handlers have made him into the all friendly, help the kids, be a buddy to everyone, when his personality doesn't go that way. I also feel that it is a big waste of an opportunity, when for a little extra effort on Tiger's part, he could do so much more good for the game by signing autographs and being a bit more personable when there isn't money to be made. To be fair, I'm not sure if it's him or his handlers, as they strong-armed Weir into not signing pictures of Tiger giving him the green jacket.

I have never doubted Tiger's golfing skills, I just don't like him as a person. It's like hockey. I love the game, but will not watch a game that Toronto is playing in. If Tiger is playing, I'm more likely to go out and play myself, and catch the highlights. Better than 4 straight hours of Tiger.

[EDSGOLF]

I consider myself lucky for having seen Jordan, Gretzky and Woods play at their highest levels.

[Andru]

Andru,

No-one that I have seen, at least not me, has ever said that Tiger is not talented. I don't like the fact that his handlers have made him into the all friendly, help the kids, be a buddy to everyone, when his personality doesn't go that way. I also feel that it is a big waste of an opportunity, when for a little extra effort on Tiger's part, he could do so much more good for the game by signing autographs and being a bit more personable when there isn't money to be made. To be fair, I'm not sure if it's him or his handlers, as they strong-armed Weir into not signing pictures of Tiger giving him the green jacket.

I have never doubted Tiger's golfing skills, I just don't like him as a person. It's like hockey. I love the game, but will not watch a game that Toronto is playing in. If Tiger is playing, I'm more likely to go out and play myself, and catch the highlights. Better than 4 straight hours of Tiger.

Colby it's nothing personal. You can take whatever you want from the numbers. for the record. I have now 2 confirmed reports from friends who have worked with Tiger on 2 separate projects. One was the Tournament at magma this summer and another is a director who worked with him on a commercial back in 99. Both said he was the most polite, friendly down to earth person they'd ever met.

Whatever experience you had with Tiger is up to you. I've never heard or seen any of the things you claim. That includes 7 days at the PGA where I saw Tiger every day with 10,000 people watching his every move. He signed autographs during his practice round on Tuesday with Mark O'Meara every second hole.

I'm not going to argue with you, You're a sensible and smart person, you have your opinion and I have mine. We're just different people. To be honest the only tournaments I watch now are the majors and the World Match Play.

All I can say is that final round at the Masters was amazing. the chip in on 16 is a defining moment in sports it will be played and replayed till the day you die. Like the great Jack's putt in 86. "Yes Sir!!!!"

If you choose to miss moments like that it's up to you.

Cheers man.

BTW when are we going to do our 36 hole Predator-Talon Tour??

[Colby]

BTW when are we going to do our 36 hole Predator-Talon Tour??

I'm in Kentucky next week, but August is looking a lot less busy. We should be able to get it organized then if you are able.

[Eldred]

My Tiger moment: I tapped Tiger shoulder at the 2000 Bell Canadian Open on Saturday round. He was heading to the par3 hole #7.
Coincidentally, I broke 100 for the first time after that

[Andru]

I'm in Kentucky next week, but August is looking a lot less busy. We should be able to get it organized then if you are able.

I am able and ready. I'll be in town every weekend until the 22nd of August. So whenever you're ready. Let me know.

Cheers

[Andru]

My Tiger moment: I tapped Tiger shoulder at the 2000 Bell Canadian Open on Saturday round. He was heading to the par3 hole #7.
Coincidentally, I broke 100 for the first time after that

So it's true there's is Tiger Magic!! I knew it.

Oh My I can see, I can make birdies now!.

I'M A BELIEVER, YES SIR I'M A BELIEVER, PURRR_RAISE THE GOLF GODS!!

[broken27]

Yet another manifestation of the "Tiger is the best" thread... Nobody is arguing about his achievements, yet for some reason the Tiger fans seem to feel the need to remind us that he wins events on almost a daily basis...

Those of us who do not like Tiger generally hold that opinion for reasons similar to what Colby outlined above. It has little to do with his ability or skill.

You'd think Tiger was toiling in anonymity with all the constant reminders from the Tiger Lovers...

Dan

[The Shtick]

Yet another manifestation of the "Tiger is the best" thread... Nobody is arguing about his achievements, yet for some reason the Tiger fans seem to feel the need to remind us that he wins events on almost a daily basis...

So very true......

[NoBack]

I'M A BELIEVER, YES SIR I'M A BELIEVER, PURRR_RAISE THE GOLF GODS!!

We call him Mister NIcklaus!!!!!

[Eldred]

You'd think Tiger was toiling in anonymity with all the constant reminders from the Tiger Lovers...

Dan

I just have special reasons to like Tiger, both our mothers are Thai. I often kid my father for not looking more like Earl Woods HAHAHA.

Listen to me, I'm beginning to make it like I'm the same stature as Eldrick.

[The Shtick]

Eldred :readheart Tiger :readheart

[broken27]

I just have special reasons to like Tiger, both our mothers are Thai. I often kid my father for not looking more like Earl Woods HAHAHA.

Listen to me, I'm beginning to make it like I'm the same stature as Eldrick.

Bud, read my post... I'm not saying anyone should NOT like Tiger. I'm pointing out this incessant recurrance of threads that accomplish nothing more than echoing rhetoric we've seen 1000000 times before in here and across other sites and media outlets...

I have no problem with someone liking Tiger. Most people find it odd that I cheer for Mickelson, Weir and Flesch simply based on them being lefties.... To me it only makes sense.

Dan

[Barnie]

Were you on vacation Broken? I haven't seen you post for a few days.

[broken27]

Were you on vacation Broken? I haven't seen you post for a few days.

Let's just say the Sympatico "Help Desk" had their heads up their collective *****es and then the strike of lazy unionists who are already overpaid for doing their jobs (not in all cases, so please just respect that this is my opinion) couldn't make appointments, so I ended up without internet between July 4th and today....

The guy who fixed the problem was a man of quality and integrity, and should be praised to his employers, which I will do as soon as my vitriolic letters to the legal, media and union offices of Sympatico are written....

Dan

[Barnie]

Brutal isn't it.. My parents phone line went down and they were without one for 3 weeks. First off very annoying to not have a phone for that long but also kind of dangerous.. What if it was an elderly person..

[broken27]

Brutal isn't it.. My parents phone line went down and they were without one for 3 weeks. First off very annoying to not have a phone for that long but also kind of dangerous.. What if it was an elderly person..

Bingo. I don't understand why unions don't try to generate support from the public rather than annoy the hell out of everyone. I don't put pressure on the company, I put pressure on its employees to deliver the quality of service that should be proportionate to my bill.

So to tie this back to golf, doesn't Mike Weir wear a Bell hat??? He's better than Tiger.

Dan

[Golfbum]

I am not taking anything away from the fact that Woods has 10 Majors. That is a hell of a record. If and when he passes Jack in total Major wins then we can call him the great golfer that played the game. Until then, he is damn good but he isn't the best ever.
A few things I do not like about Woods? Well his actions on the course when things just are not going his way. Club slams, curses etc. Not a very professional attitude is it? For someone who is supposed to be doing so much for JR Golf that is not a good way to act on TV.
Another issue with Woods, his jerk a#*ss caddie. Super Caddie is what some of the boys at my club call him. Tossing cameras in lakes, kicking cameras out of the hands of pro photographers. Real professional that is.
Now do I respect Woods talent? Damn right I do. When he is on his game he can do just about anything with that Nike golf ball. I still remember the 6 iron he hit out of the bunker on 18 at the BCO a few years ago. Not many tour players would attempt to pull that shot off.
So don't take this the wrong way. I am not running his talent down. He might be a great person off the course, I am sure he is. But he needs to act like a pro on the course when his game is off.
I bet you never saw Jack slamming clubs or cursing? I rest my case.

[broken27]

I bet you never saw Jack slamming clubs or cursing? I rest my case.

I coulda sworn I heard two s-bombs from him at the British on Friday, and also one muttered s-bomb after a stray shot into the bushes during the skins game... I could be wrong, but it certainly sounded like him saying it, and they definitely had mics on him at both events...

Either way, I agree that there is a difference in the way both potential "greatests" handle themselves...

Dan

[mberube]

Every player no mater who, slams there club or curses at some point. Just look at M. Goosen on Sunday. He completely lost it, cursing and slamming his clubs all day long. Nobody is perfect. The difference here is that the camera is on Tiger for 60’some shot per round.

I am not defending Tiger here. I also believe that he should conduct himself in a better fashion when hitting bad shots. Tiger has had more camera shots on him for the first 5 years then probably Jack had in his prime.

Will Tiger be the greatest golfer of all time? Difficult to say BUT at the moment, if you compare every great player in history at the same age as Tiger, he is the best no doubt. He has beaten every achievement and more at a younger age that Jack has done. He even has records that some say will never be broken. We Time will tell.

Mike

[Andru]

I coulda sworn I heard two s-bombs from him at the British on Friday, and also one muttered s-bomb after a stray shot into the bushes during the skins game... I could be wrong, but it certainly sounded like him saying it, and they definitely had mics on him at both events...

Either way, I agree that there is a difference in the way both potential "greatests" handle themselves...

Dan

In order to do this you'd have to compare both at about the same age. 29. Considering there isn't much tv coverage of golf in 1969, It would be difficult to compare.

Comparing 40-60 ( mature, elder statesman ) Jack to 29 year old relative kid Tiger Woods hmm ok. They are very different.

Then again I can't dispute Jack wasn't the same classy guy because frankly, I wasn't even born in 1969.

To be honest I don't care why anyone likes or dislikes Tiger Woods It's obvious we are not going to settle this. He's doing just fine with his life.

I started the thread because it's one of those amazing stats. He has more majors than Ernie Els, Phil Mickleson, Vj Singh, Retief Goosen. combined. That's just unbelievable considering the other guys are stars in the game. I have no doubt by the time he retires Everyone will have the attachment to woods as they do to Jack.

I can think of a few guys who had their critics, Ali, George Forman, Nick Faldo, Jack himself ( can you believe that? ) , Wayne, Mario, Clemens.

It's part of being the best. Your life and personallity are dissected ,people search for reasons to dislike you.

[oldmaninblack]

I vaguely remember this kind of discussion about another golfer. A young brash kid taking over the golf world from the true gentlemen of the sport.

His name was Jack Nicklaus.

[powerlefty]

I am not taking anything away from the fact that Woods has 10 Majors. That is a hell of a record. If and when he passes Jack in total Major wins then we can call him the great golfer that played the game. Until then, he is damn good but he isn't the best ever.
A few things I do not like about Woods? Well his actions on the course when things just are not going his way. Club slams, curses etc. Not a very professional attitude is it? For someone who is supposed to be doing so much for JR Golf that is not a good way to act on TV.
Another issue with Woods, his jerk a#*ss caddie. Super Caddie is what some of the boys at my club call him. Tossing cameras in lakes, kicking cameras out of the hands of pro photographers. Real professional that is.
Now do I respect Woods talent? Damn right I do. When he is on his game he can do just about anything with that Nike golf ball. I still remember the 6 iron he hit out of the bunker on 18 at the BCO a few years ago. Not many tour players would attempt to pull that shot off.
So don't take this the wrong way. I am not running his talent down. He might be a great person off the course, I am sure he is. But he needs to act like a pro on the course when his game is off.
I bet you never saw Jack slamming clubs or cursing? I rest my case.

Maybe it is because of the era when I grew up - I'm in my mid-forties - but Jack is still the standard by which all others must be measured.

I missed the best of Palmer in the 50s and 60s but saw the best of Nicklaus in the 60s and 70s. The thing that always struck me was his tremendous sportsmanship. He lived by the motto "modest in victory, humble in defeat". Sportsmanship, not gamesmanship was his hallmark - the Ryder Cup when he conceded Jasklin the 4 footer that resulted in a tie for the matches (OK so, the US still retained the Cup and he probably wouldn't have done it if it meant a win for Britain but it was still one of the defining momnents of Ryder Cup sportsmanship).

Maybe it was because the cameras were not as omni-present back then but I don't recall seeing him cursing, beating the ground or throwing clubs like Tiger does on a regular basis. The worst I can recall were his self-deprecating comments like "Awe Jack don't be so stupid" when he hit a bad shot.

His caddie was not some self absorbed idiot who felt it necessary to seize and damage photographic equipment or felt it necessary to be the primary traffic cop on the golf course.

The other thing that was remarkable was when he did not win Majors, he was ALWAYS in the hunt. Check out the stats below
Victories:20Top-Three Finishes:48Second Place:19Top-Five Finishes:56Third Place:9Top-10 Finishes:73


I cuoldn't find Tiger's stats on this but I think he is 10, 2, 1 (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and he either wins Majors or he is nowhere around (with a couple of exceptions). In Majors as a professional (sorry I have a hard time counting the US and British Amateurs as Majors since the best players have not been amatuers for 6 decades), Nicklaus is 18, 18 and 9 for 1st, 2nd, 3rd. When Tiger surpasses the combined record of wins and near wins in Majors, and fixes up his sportsmanship, then I will recognize him as the greatest but not until then.

[el tigre]

Yet another manifestation of the "Tiger is the best" thread... Nobody is arguing about his achievements, yet for some reason the Tiger fans seem to feel the need to remind us that he wins events on almost a daily basis...

The guy just won the last golf tournament that was played (the British Open), which just happens to be a major. Whether you like him or not, he and his fans have earned bragging rights - at least until the next golf tournament!

[The Shtick]

The guy just won the last golf tournament that was played (the British Open), which just happens to be a major. Whether you like him or not, he is entitled to brag (as are his fans) - at least until the next golf tournament.

Yeah, but not in every thread!

[broken27]

The guy just won the last golf tournament that was played (the British Open), which just happens to be a major. Whether you like him or not, he and his fans have earned bragging rights - at least until the next golf tournament!

Firstly I would ask exactly what his fans did to "earn" bragging rights? Secondly, this thread has NOTHING to do with the British Open!! It's just more of the same. Redundancy after redundancy...

Even with stats, Tiger is only the second best golfer of all time from what I can tell, well behind Nicklaus. You can extrapolate things all you want, but until he actually achieves those things it's just speculation. Things happen in life that can curb your potential. I imagine he'll be pretty shattered when Earl dies, and who knows if that will make him more determined or an emotional basket case....

Anyways, I'm done talking about this guy.

Dan

[Andru]

Maybe it is because of the era when I grew up - I'm in my mid-forties - but Jack is still the standard by which all others must be measured.

I missed the best of Palmer in the 50s and 60s but saw the best of Nicklaus in the 60s and 70s. The thing that always struck me was his tremendous sportsmanship. He lived by the motto "modest in victory, humble in defeat". Sportsmanship, not gamesmanship was his hallmark - the Ryder Cup when he conceded Jasklin the 4 footer that resulted in a tie for the matches (OK so, the US still retained the Cup and he probably wouldn't have done it if it meant a win for Britain but it was still one of the defining momnents of Ryder Cup sportsmanship).

Maybe it was because the cameras were not as omni-present back then but I don't recall seeing him cursing, beating the ground or throwing clubs like Tiger does on a regular basis. The worst I can recall were his self-deprecating comments like "Awe Jack don't be so stupid" when he hit a bad shot.

His caddie was not some self absorbed idiot who felt it necessary to seize and damage photographic equipment or felt it necessary to be the primary traffic cop on the golf course.

The other thing that was remarkable was when he did not win Majors, he was ALWAYS in the hunt. Check out the stats below
Victories:20Top-Three Finishes:48Second Place:19Top-Five Finishes:56Third Place:9Top-10 Finishes:73


I cuoldn't find Tiger's stats on this but I think he is 10, 2, 1 (1st, 2nd, 3rd) and he either wins Majors or he is nowhere around (with a couple of exceptions). In Majors as a professional (sorry I have a hard time counting the US and British Amateurs as Majors since the best players have not been amatuers for 6 decades), Nicklaus is 18, 18 and 9 for 1st, 2nd, 3rd. When Tiger surpasses the combined record of wins and near wins in Majors, and fixes up his sportsmanship, then I will recognize him as the greatest but not until then.

Tiger won't be the greatest until he ties Jack's record of 18 majors. That's a certainty. Fixes his sportsmanship? I can't recall Tiger not treating his opponent whether it's the ryder cup or a major with anything less than the utmost respect and sportsmanship. So, I'm not exactly sure where you're coming from here.

On your point about Steve Williams. I've been scolded by many Caddies on the golf course. Example Retief just started one of his practice swings. I stood up from my chair and got a "Hold Still Please!" ALL Caddies play traffic cops. It's part of their jobs. This is another example of the misinformation I'm talking about. It's not just Steve Williams. Go to a tour event live and watch. The only difference from player to player is Tiger has 10,000 more people in his gallery, 5X the tv cameras, 3X the photographers, and a blimp following him a round.