Whats the big deal with St. Andrews?

["Richard"]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to play that course and probably will before I die. Take tons of pics on that bridge as well but... I know the course has been there for close to 800 years now and that it wasn't "designed" and all that great stuff but if someone were to build the identical course in Canada... or the states it would suck!!! I doubt even th LPGA would hold an event there. Its not the course that is nice, its the history of the course. I will play it because the greatest golfers in the world have played there (past and present) and to say that i played the course but not because its a good course. It can very easily be duplicated for very little money but it hasn't because everyone knows that it would just be a cow patch without the history to go along with it. I have never seen so many players driver a green but everyone was going for it yesterday. I've always found golf more exceited when everyone is bunched together at -4 or -6 or something like that on sunday.. not after the first round. Looks like there are going to be 5 to 10 people who are better than minus 10. I like north american style courses better.


Discuss

[rgk5]

"It can very easily be duplicated for very little money but it hasn't because everyone knows that it would just be a cow patch"

Your personal best is 87 and you make editiorial comments like these? Stick to the courses with the paved cart paths, ponds with fountains, and six hour rounds.

Belittling history is one thing, understanding it is another.

[Chieflongtee]

The course looks easy cause the first round was played with hardly any wind at all i.e excellent conditions. Try playing it when the wind picks up and it is an entirely different ball game. It is a different challenge than our courses. High fescue and very deep sand traps.

http://www.pga.com/openchampionship/...oldcourse.html

[covanant]

I dont know about everyone else,but those bunkers look like pure hell to me!

If i landed in one of those,i would simply die in there!

[EDSGOLF]

It's called tradition, it's where golf was born, so take it or live it That course could not be duplicated even if they tried.

[Ginker]

Its all about the history... The origin of the game...

[LongHitta]

The course looks easy cause the first round was played with hardly any wind at all i.e excellent conditions. Try playing it when the wind picks up and it is an entirely different ball game. It is a different challenge than our courses. High fescue and very deep sand traps.
]

exactly.....WIND!! THe course was playing the easiest it will ever play yesterday.
wait till the weekend and they start playing later into the day...I doubt anyone will be better then -10 by Sunday. The Wind over there isn't like the sissy wind here, it can literally blow you over, when it gets going! And those bunkers....OMG! here we have sand traps.....those are BUNKERS, it would take us all day to get out of those.
give tiger credit...anyone that can go 90 holes at St. Andrews without putting the ball in one bunker...gets my vote!

[fireice]

Hi thotho, keep watching. St. Andrew's is all about tradition. St. Andrews's is the birthpplace of golf listen to the pros talk about it, listen to the pros who have won there, it's the holy grail. Nicklaus still has a tear in his eyes taking about St. Andrew's, his wins and near wins.

Hey rgk5, as a golfer who's best score is 91 I didn't enjoy your comments. thotho is entitled to his opinion as you are. I just didn't like yours equating golf score with knowledge of golf.

[beefstuf]

I just think of 17 with a scoring average of 4.7 On this whole you have 3 options of the tee and then a pile of options for your approach. With cart path, a road and a brick wall all fully playable I can see what all the fuss is about.

Even if the course could be duplicated or if the course did not have so much history this hole alone makes the entire golf course one of the toughest ones in the world.

Oh ya and there is a pot bunker that guards the pin....opps forgot about that. How do you hold a sloping green when you are hitting a 2-5 iron into it. Hmmm sounds like a big deal to me.

["Richard"]

Yes my best score is 87, I have been play golf for less than one year. It will be a year in september. What exactly did i say that offended you? The fact that the COURSE SUCKS? I'm agreeing with you about the history, about the tradition but that doesn't make the COURSE any nicer. Unlike you, I'm able to sperate the two. If bobby jones and all the golf greats had been playing at irish hills and that course had been around for over 800 years and was "natural" then you would be making the same excuses for it. Bottom line, the course is patch.. the only reason they can get away with charging that much money for a round is because they know people will pay it. I'M WILLING TO PAY IT just so i can play on the same course that ALL the greats have played on. Other than that, it does nothing for me.

"Belittling history is one thing, understanding it is another." Please explain where I have not understood history?

maybe it was when I said...

its the history of the course. I will play it because the greatest golfers in the world have played there (past and present)


"Your personal best is 87 and you make editiorial comments like these? Stick to the courses with the paved cart paths, ponds with fountains, and six hour rounds."

what was your best score 8 months after you played your first round?

[Kilroy]

Take it down a few notches please.

["Richard"]

MY GOD how can you sit there and type that trash? You have no sense of history for the game of golf, none at all. You are a typical North American golfer, you want everything lush and green when you play a round. Well buddy that is not the way golf was invented and that is not the way the courses were when the game was first invented. I guess you would say my home course is a cow patch then, as the rough is not lush and green it is dried out. But the fairways and greens are
green. If you hit it in the rough then you take your lumps, why do you think
they call it rough?
Ask any PGA member and I bet everyone will tell you they love playing The Old
Course. You have to think your way around that course, you just don't stand on
the tee and blast away. 112 BUNKERS around the course tends to make you think.
Bunkers are meant to be hazards and over there they are hazards.

TAKE TIME to study the history of the game, use the wonderful world wide web to
do so. Read some books on the game of golf.
If The Old Course at St Andrews is such a "COW PATCH" as you call it then why
did the greatest golfer of all time go there to play his last official event?
Why does Tiger Woods, Ernie Els and the rest of the players go there to play?
For the money? Hell no, for the chance to have their names in the history books
for winning the oldest championship in golf on the oldest course in the world.
Let me see, give me a chance to play Augusta National or The Old Course, all
exspenses paid. I would take The Old Course in a heartbeat and I bet the
majority of the posters on here would too.

yes I want everything to be lush and green, who does?? i don't care how the game was meant to be played 100s of years ago. 100s of years ago i don't think they wanted you to have to hit over a hotel either... but you do now. Things change. 100s of years ago they didn't have the tech. they have now to keep everything green, smooth and consistant throughtout the course. As tech. gets more advanced courses have to addapt and this one isn't changing much, there isn't room for it to change. Alot of things have changed in golf since it was invented. Driver heads are now at 460cc, drivers have screws into them, are made of better matierals. I'm sure all the PGA members love playing that course but I doubt any of them will say its their fav course. I'm sure its one of their fav tourney but not their fav course. You really think that all these guys wouldn't play the british open regardless of where it was held? the last time they held the BO it wasn't at St. Andrews and everyone still showed up. its a major, so everyone wants to play, everyone wants a shot at winning a major. How hard can this course be, the cut is +1!!! I'm sure if the wind was blowing and it was raining it would be harder but you can say that about any course.

I don't see what the big deal is, I'm acknowledging the history of the couse but just saying, without that history.. it isn't much of a course

PS jack isn't the greatest golfer ever.. tiger is.

["Richard"]

Hmmm, looks like the post I am repling to has been deleted. To whoever deleted it, its just a difference of opinion and we are discussing it without swearing or putting eachother down. Why was it deleted?

[Kilroy]

Golfbum deleted it himself. Probably because he does not want to persue an argument that is on a downward spiral.

[Andru]

Thotho

That's not really true. This is how golf was meant to be played. Someone decided to manicure fairways and greens in North America and call it golf.

I love what John Daly said about St.Andrews. You can hit any shot you want into a green. There's no one way to play it. It takes imagination, skill, and patience. You'll see shots you've enver seen before.

I'd like to see you duplicate the home of golf. I'd like to play there and it's not because
the legends have played there it's because it's a challenging golf course. Your comparison to irish hills is ridiculous. They're not even close.

I think the comment about an 87 shooter is not really a complete shot. I have to admit I'm just starting (after 4 years ) to appreciate what some of the legends call imagination. There's only a few courses in Ottawa that allow this. Marshes, Stonebridge etc. As nice as Eagle Creek is there's not a whole lot of options around the green. It's fairly simplistic.

This isn't meant to sound condecending Please don't take it this way. I honestly believe the more golf you play the more you'll start to appreciate the true joy of golf and the mental challenge of playing a course. This is a true test of golf.

In response to the scores. The R&A decied long time ago that the course would be set up as it is and the weather determines how difficult it plays. Unlike the USGA that basically kills greens and tricks up the course.

[beefstuf]

Thotho I do love Tiger more than my own life at times. I must say though that it is a very strong statement to say that he is the best golfer that ever lived. There is no doubt he has done more for the game then any other player, but statistcally he is not the best player in history. If you research you will find that statistically Jack has a better putting average, driving accuracy, and green in reg percentage. Tiger's career score on par 3's is not even in the top 10.

Argueably Ben Hogan could be classified as the greatest golfer of all time. He achieved greatness in a very short period of time without being classified as a professional. He felt to be paid as a golfer was a disrespectuful act.

Now with all that being said, yes Tiger has had the best statistical slump, he is loved by millions, but Jack accomplished what he has without the technology that helps players become so good.

Well I do love Tiger and he is a machine on the golf course, with club design and with swing mechanics, but statistically he is not YET the greatest golfer that every lived. He may have a "Tiger Grand Slam" but not a natural one.

Speaking of Tiger I have in my pool, but for God's sake please let the wind and rain come forth.

This is not to cause a ruccus on the forum, but it needed to be said.

[Chieflongtee]

You can't compare. Different eras, different tecnology, stronger athletes. Jack did not have as much competition as Tiger does. Same deal in tennis when Rod Laver won the grand slam(twice).

[Kilroy]

Jack did not have as much competition as Tiger does

Ya know today does not seem like an appropriate dat to downplay Jack's accomplishments.
Today was Jack Nicklaus day.

["Richard"]

You can't compare. Different eras, different tecnology, stronger athletes. Jack did not have as much competition as Tiger does. Same deal in tennis when Rod Laver won the grand slam(twice).

I agree with you. Tiger may not have the best stats when it comes to driving accuracy but I think that is one of the least important stats anyway. The top players in the world right now aren't acurate with their driver, and the top accuracy guys are never on the leaderboards. Putting, well like someone said earlier, the greens are a lot harder and "tricked" out so you can't compare then to now. I think the best way to compare players from difference eras is to look at how they compete with the guys in their own era. Tiger is better against the guys he plays against than anyone has been before him. Whatever arguements you make for jack, you can make for bobby jones as well. he retired at at 28 didn't he? So, he stopped playing at tigers age last year. That to me is amazing. jack had 40+ years to win his 18 majors, jones have 1/4 of the time to 13 and tiger will get his 10th this week and still not be close to what jones did. Obviously, someone can win 3 majors in their first year and then people can make the faulty arguement that he was on pace to tie jack in only 6 years but because jones didn't continue you can't compare him to jack either because jack had longevity and thats a part of golf as well. I say tiger is the best golf ever based on how he beats everyone now. He has his slump but it looks like he is back and i say no one can beat him if he is on.

["Richard"]

Ya know today does not seem like an appropriate dat to downplay Jack's accomplishments.
Today was Jack Nicklaus day.

Today maybe Jack Nicklaus day but if tiger goes better than 19 under he will have stolen some (most) of jacks thunder. How cool would that be, tiger betters his own record of 19 under in jacks last competitive event. J K Rowling couldn't have writting it any better

[Barnie]

I actually think the course is fantastic. I like that style and layout with crazy bunkers and fescue grass. It's more of a golf course to me than what we get to play on. Technology doesn't always make things better Perhaps someday if you play it you will get more of an appreciation for it.

[Chieflongtee]

Tiger may not have the best stats when it comes to driving accuracy .

Then again you can't compare. When you drive it 325 yds your chances of being in the fairway are slimmer than when you only drive it 255. Who was the longest hitter in Jack's era and what was his average drivibg distance. Check out the older golfers in any courses. They are always in the fairway mainly cause they don't hit it far.

[Chieflongtee]

Moreover fairway traps are becoming almost obsolete for long hitters as they don't even come into play. The long hitters fly it over traps.

[LobWedge]

thotho, being a big Tiger fan as you are, you may be interested to know that St. Andrew's is Tiger's favourite golf course, and his scores there over the years reflect that. He works very hard to prepare for this tournament every year, and especially hard when it's played at the Old Course. He knows the importance of the Open Championship & St. Andrew's in the history of golf.

You're right about it looking somewhat like a cow patch (actually it's technically a sheep pasture if you read the history books), but what a cow patch it is! I think for you to fully understand the intricacies of this course you'll have to play it some day, and I really hope you get a chance to. I had the pleasure of playing there in 2003. It boggles the mind that 95% of this golf course was formed by nature and grazing sheep! The only person that really had a hand in tweaking it in to what you see today was Old Tom Morris. He knew enough to leave the majority of the work to nature and use what the land gave him. He was a genius who was years ahead of his time. If you ever go to St. Andrew's, make sure that you play the New Course as well (kind of misleading considering that Tom Morris built it over 120 years ago) and you'll see his genius at work. These courses have design elements that are commonly found on today's modern courses all over the world.

It's like Sam Snead once said, "Until you play it, St. Andrew's looks like the kind of real estate you couldn't give away."

[Golfpeasant]

I think Lobwedge's point is very valid. Play it one day, THEN comment. Why make a comment like "this course sucks" if you're judging simply from the television.

This course is the way golf was INTENDED to be played. Its like saying "Wow, soccer is nothing like north american football...soccer sucks."

[Chieflongtee]

I think Lobwedge's point is very valid. Play it one day, THEN comment. Why make a comment like "this course sucks" if you're judging simply from the television.

This course is the way golf was INTENDED to be played. Its like saying "Wow, soccer is nothing like north american football...soccer sucks."

Sounds like Jim Rome.

[NoBack]

I actually think the course is fantastic. I like that style and layout with crazy bunkers and fescue grass. It's more of a golf course to me than what we get to play on. Technology doesn't always make things better Perhaps someday if you play it you will get more of an appreciation for it.

I agree 100% with you on this one. St.Andrews is just that, a great golf course with lots of blind shots and mega roll. Not to mention, the history and the home of the game we all love to play today. We should be saying thank you
This is one course I hope to play before I go to golf land in the sky

[Kilroy]

I wanna go with. MEGA ROAD TRIP
OK, maybe someday....

[rgk5]

Yes my best score is 87, I have been play golf for less than one year. It will be a year in september. What exactly did i say that offended you? The fact that the COURSE SUCKS? I'm agreeing with you about the history, about the tradition but that doesn't make the COURSE any nicer. Unlike you, I'm able to sperate the two. If bobby jones and all the golf greats had been playing at irish hills and that course had been around for over 800 years and was "natural" then you would be making the same excuses for it. Bottom line, the course is patch.. the only reason they can get away with charging that much money for a round is because they know people will pay it. I'M WILLING TO PAY IT just so i can play on the same course that ALL the greats have played on. Other than that, it does nothing for me.

"Belittling history is one thing, understanding it is another." Please explain where I have not understood history?

maybe it was when I said...

its the history of the course. I will play it because the greatest golfers in the world have played there (past and present)


"Your personal best is 87 and you make editiorial comments like these? Stick to the courses with the paved cart paths, ponds with fountains, and six hour rounds."

what was your best score 8 months after you played your first round?

I am sorry if I jumped on you too harshly. It seems that many people do not understand that the game is to be played in the air AND on the ground which is really what links golf is all about.

To answer your question my best was 81 on a par 70, only once during my first year and I broke 80 twice in my second year, both scores of 79.

[Chieflongtee]

I am sorry if I jumped on you too harshly. It seems that many people do not understand that the game is to be played in the air AND on the ground which is really what links golf is all about.

To answer your question my best was 81 on a par 70, only once during my first year and I broke 80 twice in my second year, both scores of 79.

You wrote this before your morning coffee, Classy on your part to apologize