COVID-19 and golf

[cpal]

Government announcement didn't say much of substance.

It's amazing that so few seem to understand what flattening the curve could achieve (and couldn't) and the misconceptions about what will happen when we re-open. There WILL be increased infections as we reopen. It's unavoidable and should be expected, but that's not a reason not to reopen. It's all about medical capacity and continuing with precautions as we get back out there.

On a positive note, it does sound like golf courses will easily fit into Ford's criteria for phase 1 opening. Nothing definitive yet and no timeline provided unfortunately.

[mathc38]

That was not a very detailed update from the government at all

[KDMcC]

On a positive note, it does sound like golf courses will easily fit into Ford's criteria for phase 1 opening. Nothing definitive yet and no timeline provided unfortunately.

I tend to agree. As I understand it, they’ve said they want to see the daily new infection number down to about 200 before they start to look at starting phase 1. Today Ontario was over 400, so a way to go yet. Hoping for around the long weekend (whatever that means these days).

[pwoods72]

Government announcement didn't say much of substance.

It's amazing that so few seem to understand what flattening the curve could achieve (and couldn't) and the misconceptions about what will happen when we re-open. There WILL be increased infections as we reopen. It's unavoidable and should be expected, but that's not a reason not to reopen. It's all about medical capacity and continuing with precautions as we get back out there.

I for one never actually saw a definition of what 'Flattening the curve" is/was. In its simplest form, it measures the number of new cases relative to time but this excludes number of total test results and in its absence can distort the presented numbers. CTV opened a newscast last week with a headline that Ontario had incurred the highest single day increase of positive results. They didn't disclose that there was also the highest single day in increase in negative results which all stemmed from a significant increase in actual test results that day.

Reducing the risk that the healthcare system did not exceed capacity because of what was happening in Italy was presented by our PM as the main reason for the lockdown but I have yet to see this measurement as the primary graph presented.

My intent is not to politicize this topic but rather express views and need for transparency and consistent disclosure of information. For example, Ontario releases the number of tests completed each day along with pending but why doesn't Ottawa?

As for golf courses opening, I have no idea based on today's vague document where that stands. One of the criteria is a 2 to 4 week decrease in positive tests. Does this apply from this day forward or is it restroactive? What if the total combined number of test results varies resulting in a change in positive tests from one day to the next; does this disqualify reopenings? Is this regional, city, province?
When the premier was asked for specifics, none were given.

I appreciate that a framework has now been delivered but I don't think it offers much clarity and may increase frustration level if not questions.

[pwoods72]

I tend to agree. As I understand it, they’ve said they want to see the daily new infection number down to about 200 before they start to look at starting phase 1. Today Ontario was over 400, so a way to go yet. Hoping for around the long weekend (whatever that means these days).

Oh really? I did not see or read this. Who made this statement?

[cpal]

I for one never actually saw a definition of what 'Flattening the curve" is/was.

Right. Many people - including commentators on the news and our politicians - speak of it as if it was a strategy to "beat" the virus, meaning that at some point we could open up and the virus would simply be over with. Without a vaccine (which is not guaranteed to ever come), that is impossible.

It'd be like saying if we hunker down for 1 month in March, no one will ever get the flu again after.

That's not how viruses work. Flattening the curve was all about keeping the height of the spike below what the medical system could handle. It was never, ever going to prevent future spikes. There will be an increase in infection when we reopen and there will be new waves in the future. Without herd immunity (which is difficult to achieve), it will come and go like other viruses. The good news is that the death rate is almost definitely in the 0.4-0.8% range rather than the 3-4% reported in March. Point is, we're all likely to get the virus at some point. Most people get the flu every year or two, and this one is more contagious. What's critical is ensuring the medical system has enough capacity to handle however many cases are coming in at any given time.

Hopefully some sanity prevails and we soon dispel the hilarious idea that it's "safer" to shop at an LCBO/grocery store or ride a bus than play golf or relax in a park (with social distancing).

[justsomeguy]

I tend to agree. As I understand it, they’ve said they want to see the daily new infection number down to about 200 before they start to look at starting phase 1. Today Ontario was over 400, so a way to go yet. Hoping for around the long weekend (whatever that means these days).

The "detailed guidelines" can be found here:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/reopenin...after-covid-19

There are no specific numbers of cases mentioned. One of the key milestones for Stage 1 is "a consistent two-to-four week decrease in the number of new daily COVID‑19 cases." I do think the specific numbers will influence just how quickly they reduce restrictions, but I believe that certain outdoor activities like golf will be one of the first areas where restrictions are loosened.

The fact that testing is more widespread now than in the past is not really relevant - the document is a guideline for the future that assumes the current level of testing or more.

[Michael]

The "detailed guidelines" can be found here:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/reopenin...after-covid-19

There are no specific numbers of cases mentioned. One of the key milestones for Stage 1 is "a consistent two-to-four week decrease in the number of new daily COVID‑19 cases." I do think the specific numbers will influence just how quickly they reduce restrictions, but I believe that certain outdoor activities like golf will be one of the first areas where restrictions are loosened.

The fact that testing is more widespread now than in the past is not really relevant - the document is a guideline for the future that assumes the current level of testing or more.

That 200 number came from the province's Chief Medical Officer, David Williams:

Ontario must shrink its daily increase in new COVID-19 cases by more than half — to 200 or fewer — before the economy can begin reopening, warns the chief medical officer of health.

[big mac]

I read and re-read the 13 page guideline and as everyone says "there is not much there" other than as Tory says---"it is a map---not a timeline" I think every should have assumed that by now...…..and it will be at least 3 to 4 weeks before we will get the go ahead for golf.
This is unfortunate and if this is indeed the case YES we are sure to lose a few courses---how can some of these guys stay in business ? No income and they are still trying to maintain a course ??? Lets give these guys a huge pat on the back if they can make it through.
I am not talking about Equinelle---Stonebridge etc.---I am talking about places like Cassel View--Hammond---Arnprior--Renfrew---Maple View---Canadian---all the smaller, owner run clubs that don't have a huge corporation backing them. The private clubs ? Well there again--a different story--a club financed by well heeled members. No idea what will happen or when, but the longer this goes on the less important golf will become in the overall picture. Eat vs golf. House vs golf. Medical vs golf. Decision, decision, decision, !!!!

[Wilster]

I read and re-read the 13 page guideline and as everyone says "there is not much there" other than as Tory says---"it is a map---not a timeline" I think every should have assumed that by now...…..and it will be at least 3 to 4 weeks before we will get the go ahead for golf.
This is unfortunate and if this is indeed the case YES we are sure to lose a few courses---how can some of these guys stay in business ? No income and they are still trying to maintain a course ??? Lets give these guys a huge pat on the back if they can make it through.
I am not talking about Equinelle---Stonebridge etc.---I am talking about places like Cassel View--Hammond---Arnprior--Renfrew---Maple View---Canadian---all the smaller, owner run clubs that don't have a huge corporation backing them. The private clubs ? Well there again--a different story--a club financed by well heeled members. No idea what will happen or when, but the longer this goes on the less important golf will become in the overall picture. Eat vs golf. House vs golf. Medical vs golf. Decision, decision, decision, !!!!

Well said , and let's not forget the amount of tournaments and company day outs that are going to be cancelled too.
I know quite a few courses rely on these heavily for income , hopefully some will survive with basic maintenance,until next season but I foresee a few not making it too , hopefully they can all get through this

[em69]

Ford was doing great and I have been impressed....up until today. Zero direction, lack of clarity and no timelines. This roadmap doesn't even indicate when businesses can expect to reopen in the stages. How does a business plan around this roadmap...they can't.

[EagleEagle]

Ford was doing great and I have been impressed....up until today. Zero direction, lack of clarity and no timelines. This roadmap doesn't even indicate when businesses can expect to reopen in the stages. How does a business plan around this roadmap...they can't.

I agree, no idea when we are going back to work.Figured he would have used one of the models they have been relying on.
Quebec has given firm dates at least with school. Wonder if we will be able to get across the river to play there.
A lot of courses were just hanging on before this hit.

[Gobble_It]

Ford was doing great and I have been impressed....up until today. Zero direction, lack of clarity and no timelines. This roadmap doesn't even indicate when businesses can expect to reopen in the stages. How does a business plan around this roadmap...they can't.

I'm sure they are working on the details on the background. They certainly want to be cautious in case there is a spike (testing changes, spread, outbreak etc..) in new cases from now to the TBD phase 1 datte. Of course they can announce a date and stop it if they have to but people will be just as upset as with no date.



Ford will announce a "phase 1 date" in the coming days probably closer to the end of this week. After Victoria long weekend is my bet for phase 1.



As far as golf courses , whether they will be allowed to be open in phase 1 or not, it would be just a small help. They have pretty much lose all the income from tournaments, restaurant, and pro shops. Some will not survive after this year and it's too bad.

[justsomeguy]

Ford was doing great and I have been impressed....up until today. Zero direction, lack of clarity and no timelines. This roadmap doesn't even indicate when businesses can expect to reopen in the stages. How does a business plan around this roadmap...they can't.

The link I posted is the summary - if you want more details you have to click on "Read our framework for reopening the province" on that page to get to a 13-page Adobe Acrobat document. The section that I thought was interesting was this:

The government will reopen Ontario businesses and public spaces gradually. This will be based on the advice of the Chief Medical Officer of Health... Each stage will last for approximately two-to-four-week periods to allow for close monitoring of any impacts or potential resurgence of cases. After each two-to-four-week period, the Chief Medical Officer of Health may advise to:
•Reapply or tighten certain public health measures in response to a surge in cases or outbreaks;•Maintain status quo and continue close monitoring of impacts; or•Progress to the next two-to-four-week stage.

So that means 6 weeks minimum, probably more like 12 weeks - but could be more if there is a resurgence. What were you expecting? Nobody can make detailed plans around this - especially when success or failure ultimately depends on the individual actions of millions of people.

[justsomeguy]

That 200 number came from the province's Chief Medical Officer, David Williams:

Ontario must shrink its daily increase in new COVID-19 cases by more than half — to 200 or fewer — before the economy can begin reopening, warns the chief medical officer of health.

I think that means the countdown starts today - not when we reach 200 daily cases. If we are at 400 now and get down to 200 in two weeks, they consider implementing Stage 1.

[em69]

Do we know specifically when courses in Quebec will open? I think a road trip to Heritage or the Tremblant area is in my future.

[mikelaurin]

Unless U are Trudeau Quebec border is closed , I think around June 1st golf courses will open , hopefully

[Marcos]

We are expecting news from our premier around the 4th of May. This is the latest update so far. Crossing our fingers.

[1800Duffers]

According to Steven Blais, Stage 1 includes parks and outdoor spaces, hope that will include golf courses. The Quebec border isn't closed, police are restricting crossings on a few bridges. They are random and one can easily find out when and where they are. Terrible use of resources, they could help out at nursing/seniors homes instead of the military!

[justdoit]

[QUOTE=1800Duffers;564428]According to Steven Blais, Stage 1 includes parks and outdoor spaces, hope that will include golf courses. The Quebec border isn't closed, police are restricting crossings on a few bridges. They are random and one can easily find out when and where they are. Terrible use of resources, they could help out at nursing/seniors homes instead of the military![/QU

[justdoit]

[QUOTE=justdoit;564429]

According to Steven Blais, Stage 1 includes parks and outdoor spaces, hope that will include golf courses. The Quebec border isn't closed, police are restricting crossings on a few bridges. They are random and one can easily find out when and where they are. Terrible use of resources, they could help out at nursing/seniors homes instead of the military![/QU

do you have an app on your phone telling you where the police checkpoints and times are,living in aylmer and curious

[1800Duffers]

Google maps and cell phones display the blockages.

[1800Duffers]

I'm respecting the stay at home rules and not crossing, hope they lift the restrictions soon or I'll have to buy expensive Ontario beer.

[Marcos]

They are also checking vehicles crossing into Ontario. Get stopped on a regular basis and asked where i am going in Ottawa. Unfortunatly i have a 75 year old brother who has health issues and lives alone in Vanier, so my wife makes him meals and we shop for groceries for him here in Quebec. Never had a problem so far. We also are not permitted in the Outaouais area to go from one region to the other as a precautionary measure.Again i understand. I hope this helps to clarify things a bit.

[White Light]

In the Gatineau region you can circulate at will within the Gatineau region and the MRC des Collines region. Pretty big area for pleasure drives.

Golf courses in Quebec are planning to open in May. Ours on May 15.

[Lucky]

Jason Lusk at Golfweek with the details from the NGF's latest recon..."More than half the golf courses in the United States are now open for the first time in more than a month, according to this week's Covid-19 update by the National Golf Foundation."

If you watch CNN you get an idea as to just how much more ahead of the game the USA is right now; cities and states are aggressively moving ahead, with plans for almost every type of business. And, they're doing it in thoughtful ways...yeah, you can actually do that!

Look at other parts of the world as well; same scenarios.

Canadian federal, and many provincial, governments are doing a horrible job; especially Ontario. They've had almost 2 months of "dedicated" time to come-up with plans. Any half-wit could've assembled a strategy (or strategies) that involves social distancing, for every major business to open. They should have been working with every major business to approve strategies and/or proposals. They should be able to release exactly what businesses can open first, and how. That, or get out of the way. Bad government is not what any country needs in times like this.

[Marcos]

In the Gatineau region you can circulate at will within the Gatineau region and the MRC des Collines region. Pretty big area for pleasure drives.

Golf courses in Quebec are planning to open in May. Ours on May 15.

I stand corrected . Yes, it is possible to go to Wakefiled or Masham etc.. no problem. Just phoned MRC des Collines.

[Jasonreg]

Ontario just announced 525 new COVID 19 cases today. This is not a trend that suggests any relaxation or opening any time soon IMO. I maintain that we will start to golf (outdoors) in a month starting with a "J". I am just not sure which one ……

[Lucky]

If we take out the old age / LTC homes we have very little new cases. The province has done a horrible job managing the virus around the elderly - which represents over 95% of the deaths. It's pretty sad.

But, that has little argument when it comes to golf courses opening with social distancing and planning. It's time to change. We don't need to sit around when we can do things with physical distancing. No offence, but it's dumb to say - there are cases, don't go outside. Smart countries are adjusting, we're behind the trend (again)...following, not leading. Poverty, job loss, mental health issues, violence, heavy debt, increased taxes, loss of govt. services, etc. will become/affect the vast majority of our lives if things don't change ASAP! We could be the country with all the problems when it's all said and done.

On a positive note, I heard that PEI is apparently opening golf courses...announcement to be made later today.

[Jasonreg]

79% is the actual Official number but your point is valid. That said, all I am suggesting is the trend is what will (likely) determine the opening dates, and the trend is not yet downwards, let alone stable.