Cast vs Forged irons

[jvincent]

Good to see an old thread ressurected.

Since this first started I've changed my clubs. I know play some very bladey-blades from 5i to PW and hybrids for 2i, 3i, 4i.

If I really miss one out on the toe of the blade the ball will come up miserably short. If I really miss one on the toe of the hybrid it will come up slightly less miserably short.

The bigger advantage for cavities and hybrids, IMHO, is their ability to get the ball up and out of the rough.

[BC MIST]

I have 3 sets of irons, all assembled with the same shafts, MOI matched, same frequency, same length,... Wishon 550 C, semi cavities, 550 M, blades and 560 full cavities. The feel/sound of the 560's is a little different than the others and it is harder to take a long divot with them, however, I see no perceptible difference in performance. The blades are in the bag the majority of the time.

Everyone says that cavities are much more forgiving, but how much? Does anyone have access to statistical information that shows just how much improvement in distance and ball flight that cavities have over blades

IMO, the amount of forgiveness is grossly exaggerated. Having said that, my errors are towards the toe end of the club. The reality is that most golfers are OTT swingers, who make contact with the ball more on the heel end of the head. If so, then I can understand why why the head closes slightly and forgives a little more. But, if you are a toe striker, would it not make the shot worse? Does torque not equal force times the length of the lever arm? The more the ball hits toward the toe end, the more the head will twist open, worsening the shot.

[byerxa]

IMO, the amount of forgiveness is grossly exaggerated. Having said that, my errors are towards the toe end of the club. The reality is that most golfers are OTT swingers, who make contact with the ball more on the heel end of the head. If so, then I can understand why why the head closes slightly and forgives a little more. But, if you are a toe striker, would it not make the shot worse? Does torque not equal force times the length of the lever arm? The more the ball hits toward the toe end, the more the head will twist open, worsening the shot.

As for forgiveness, I agree the claims are exaggerated. But the benefits are there (if not subtle). My primary set are Maltby M-05 forged cavity backs. I have a travel set with Maltby M-04 forged MBs, and another "at the folks" set which are CER 851 cast undercuts. All are fairly equally set up in swingweight and frequency.

The M-05s are the best for me, but in reality my score is not going to be drastically altered between the sets. In fact I tend to like the MBs better on the shorter irons (7 and less). I think it is more mental than anything. However my miss is on the toe as well and I find the M-05s the best I have hit for dealing with toe shots. The ball stays relatively straight and distance loss is minimal. And I am talking some nasty toe hits here.

As for feel, I really don't know if I could tell the difference in a blind taste test between forged and cast. I find the shaft setup has way more influence of the "feel" than anything else.

[Chieflongtee]

For all of you in favour of muscle backs please explain to me why you all hit 460 cc oversized drivers

[BC MIST]

For all of you in favour of muscle backs please explain to me why you all hit 460 cc oversized drivers

Because they are so much more forgiving, of course.

The greater the volume, the greater the perimeter weighting, the higher the MOI and the more forgiving the club would be. But the volume of an iron is almost the same as it was 25 years ago, so that by itself would cause no increase in the MOI. Cavities have some of their weight distributed more around the perimeter and that would increase the MOI. However, compared to the huge increase in weight distribution of a 460 cc driver versus the old 200 cc drivers, the increase in weight distribution in the irons is relatively small. So it is unfair to ask your question because we are not comparing apples to apples. Yes, the principle is the same, but the volume, weight,... is not.

There is no doubt that the MOI of cavities is greater than blades, but again, my question is, how much? If I hit a blade and a cavity, 1" off the toe, how much distance and accuracy will I lose with the blade? If it is 10 -12 yards, it is significant; if it is a couple of yards, who cares? I suppose that if it is any amount, then the cavity would be better, but if it is only a couple of yards, how would we even know?

I play my " forgiving" cavities occasionally but I always come back to the blades. Why? If there was a significant difference in performance, as there "should" be, the choice would easy. How much better would Tiger be if he played full cavities?

I still say that too much time and money is wasted on clubs and too little on learning how to swing whatever we choose to swing, better.

[Chieflongtee]

I still say that too much time and money is wasted on clubs and too little on learning how to swing whatever we choose to swing, better.

Granted.

it is significant; if it is a couple of yards, who cares?

If that means being in the trap instead of the green I care.

There is no doubt that the MOI of cavities is greater than blades, but again, my question is, how much?

I would much rather drive a nail with an axe usig the broad part vs the blade part

How much better would Tiger be if he played full cavities?

Probably not much as an athlete of his caliber hits the centre of the club face more often than not


I for myself find that if I happen to hit a bad shot whether a push or a pull my mistake will be magnified with blades. No difference if I hit it dead center. Also if I happen to hit it towards the toe or the heel I will get pretty good distance which MIGHT mean getting it over the pond or the hazard.

[byerxa]

For all of you in favour of muscle backs please explain to me why you all hit 460 cc oversized drivers

I really wonder how most would do with a strong 3 wood style club (like Wishon's new 525 F/D 200cc Fairway Driver) set up to around 43" compared to a 460cc driver at 46"? I bet most scores would really not be much different, and some may do better with the Thriver. FWIW I play a 415cc driver at 44" - 460cc is just too big for my tastes. Consistent with my middle of the road preferences such as my semi-cavity back irons.

[Wknd_Warrior]

For all of you in favour of muscle backs please explain to me why you all hit 460 cc oversized drivers

Well, I played a persimmon driver until the middle of last summer lol, there's not a huge difference. but, I have an iron for every distance, 460 drivers go farther, I have no zero wood. You can swing them harder too, I don't care about swinging my irons harder, and...they're bloody cool

I didn't like metal drivers when they first came out, I didn't care if they performed better, but the 460s have some charm somehow.