Hmmm.

[Chieflongtee]

Don't believe he did it intentionally? Let me guess... You're one of those people who think he made his shot on 16 at the Masters on purpose, rather than getting a lucky break....

There is no way to say he didn't do it intentionally. I saw the whole thing. It may have been reflexive, but you don't put a 2 foot long tear in a green by accident with your putter while it's in your hands... Maybe if it fell...

Dan

We'll never know for sure. But one thing I know is he has never done this before therefore he gets the benefit of the doubt. And no I don't believe he hit the shot at the masters on purpose and I also don't believe that Payne Stewart nor Larry Mize hit those historical shots on purpose.

[broken27]

Considering Tiger admits he did it out of frustration, he is essentially admitting to doing it on purpose... I saw it on TV, and it was a deliberate act. You're going to have a very hard time convincing me there is any margin of error to that effect...

I don't really care. Tiger's a big whiny baby, period. If this was an isolated incident with this guy, I'd likely not post about it in here at all... It's just that it's every tourney now, unless he's in the lead from the get-go.

Dan

[Andru]

Oh, it must be nice to be Tiger.
All bow for "the man". That's crap. If one of the qualifiers had done it, g'bye.
Sorry Andu, but it's inexcuseable, especially for someone in his shoes.

Dan that's not true, Tiger gets no advantages other than the ones he's earned ( Better tee time draws etc ) He's treated like any other player, he gets fined he gets spoken to about his conduct. The PGA doesn't make a public display of it. I've seen Pat Perez do some ridiculous things and he wasn't booted. I'll remind you of Daly's melt downs on the course He wasn't booted he withdrew.

He made a mistake, everyone does. I'm sorry I started this stupid thread. I wanted to talk about the obvious void in the rules and how tings like this can go unpunished because the punishment is so severe. It's like giving life sentences for speeding. No one would enforce it.

Whether you think Tiger's a baby or a suck. It's an opinion and no one on this forum is going to change their minds so it's useless talking about it.

[Kilroy]

Dan that's not true, Tiger gets no advantages other than the ones he's earned

Your opinion. Cheers!

[Andru]

Considering Tiger admits he did it out of frustration, he is essentially admitting to doing it on purpose... I saw it on TV, and it was a deliberate act. You're going to have a very hard time convincing me there is any margin of error to that effect...

I don't really care. Tiger's a big whiny baby, period. If this was an isolated incident with this guy, I'd likely not post about it in here at all... It's just that it's every tourney now, unless he's in the lead from the get-go.

Dan

That's just not true. He doesn't damage greens in fact I can't remember ever seeing him do that. If you're refering to his outburst of emotions. What can I say, if it was Chris Philips he'd be a Canadian Hockey Player with heart and love for the game. It's Tiger Woods so he's a sucky baby. A view from the eye of the beholder, no more no less.

[Andru]

Your opinion. Cheers!

Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary it's a fact.

[Kilroy]

He doesn't damage greens in fact I can't remember ever seeing him do that.

Well, he did on Friday and that is the subject of the thread you started.

[broken27]

That's just not true. He doesn't damage greens in fact I can't remember ever seeing him do that. If you're refering to his outburst of emotions. What can I say, if it was Chris Philips he'd be a Canadian Hockey Player with heart and love for the game. It's Tiger Woods so he's a sucky baby. A view from the eye of the beholder, no more no less.

Chris Phillips would never be called "a Canadian Hockey Player with heart and love for the game" by me, I can assure you of that. I am dead AGAINST 99% of Canadian hockey players...

Tiger doesn't damage greens? I have proof that he does. What do you offer?

Dan

[broken27]

Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary it's a fact.

No, actually it works the opposite way... You have to demonstrate FACT, you can spew unbacked opinions all you want. Just because you said something first doesn't mean your opinion is correct until disproven...

Dan

[Andru]

No, actually it works the opposite way... You have to demonstrate FACT, you can spew unbacked opinions all you want. Just because you said something first doesn't mean your opinion is correct until disproven...

Dan

Dan. Don't be ridiculous. The statement was that Tiger gets 'special' treatment by the PGA and/or the USGA. According to the PGA and USGA rules and regulations he does not. That's a fact. To state the contrary is opinion.

[Andru]

Chris Phillips would never be called "a Canadian Hockey Player with heart and love for the game" by me, I can assure you of that. I am dead AGAINST 99% of Canadian hockey players...

Tiger doesn't damage greens? I have proof that he does. What do you offer?

Dan

No Tiger damaged 'A' green. That's the fact you have. What I have to offer is he doesn't get special treatment. You're stepping into the debate Kilbank and I are having.

[Andru]

I figured out what's going on here. Kilbank is reading Broken's threads and Broken is reading Kilbanks threads.

let me try to clear up this confusion.

Fact. Tiger does not get special treatment by the PGA and/or the USGA. That's a fact. If you happen to 'think' he does. Then it's opnion until you can produce some kind of evidence to support it. I dont' have to produce evidence he's NOt gettign special treatment because the rules are stated as such.

Fact Tiger damaged A green on Friday. considering. "I started the darn thread". I obviously believe it was wrong. and have stated so. So what's the debate about?

[el tigre]

In the case of a serious breach of Etiquette, the Committee may disqualify a player under Rule 33-7.

Well, I haven't been following professional golf that long, but I have not heard of a single incident in the history of the PGA Tour (or the US Open, British Open or Masters) where this has actually been enforced against a player. So how can anyone argue that TW is somehow getting preferential treatment by not being disqualified? NOBODY ever gets disqualifed for breaches of etiquette.

And I would find it hard to believe that NOBODY in the history of professional golf has ever damaged a green in frustration before. TW isn't the first hothead on tour and he won't be the last. Guys like Tommy Bolt used the throw clubs and curse and swear all the time and everyone thought they were "colourful". Geez, some of those guys were barely sober when they played. There are plenty of other guys on tour (*cough* Rory Sabattini *cough*) who are known to have "anger management" issues that need to grow up. This isn't all about Tiger.

Was his behavior acceptable? Certainly not. Anyone who thinks this was an "accident" or his lame repair work and "non-apology" made everythink OK needs a new prescription for their rose-coloured glasses. Should he be fined? Absolutely - if there is such a program in place for this (I know the PGA has one, but I'm not so sure about the USGA). But kicked out of the tournament - I don't think so. That would be special treatment - he would be singled out for punishment in a situation where other players have not been, simply because of his media profile.

[NoBack]

Was his behavior acceptable? Certainly not. Anyone who thinks this was an "accident" or his lame repair work and "non-apology" made everythink OK needs a new prescription for their rose-coloured glasses. Should he be fined? Absolutely - if there is such a program in place for this (I know the PGA has one, but I'm not so sure about the USGA). But kicked out of the tournament - I don't think so. That would be special treatment - he would be singled out for punishment in a situation where other players have not been, simply because of his media profile.

Agree 100%

[broken27]

Agree 100%

Ditto.

Dan

[Andru]

Was his behavior acceptable? Certainly not. Anyone who thinks this was an "accident" or his lame repair work and "non-apology" made everythink OK needs a new prescription for their rose-coloured glasses. Should he be fined? Absolutely - if there is such a program in place for this (I know the PGA has one, but I'm not so sure about the USGA). But kicked out of the tournament - I don't think so. That would be special treatment - he would be singled out for punishment in a situation where other players have not been, simply because of his media profile.

Well said.

[Golfpeasant]

Dan that's not true, Tiger gets no advantages other than the ones he's earned ( Better tee time draws etc ) He's treated like any other player, he gets fined he gets spoken to about his conduct. The PGA doesn't make a public display of it. I've seen Pat Perez do some ridiculous things and he wasn't booted. I'll remind you of Daly's melt downs on the course He wasn't booted he withdrew.

Didn't Daly get fined big time for pounding his putter into the ground ? Ditto for agreeing with El Tigre's statement.

[Shivas Irons]

Chris Phillips would never be called "a Canadian Hockey Player with heart and love for the game" by me, I can assure you of that. I am dead AGAINST 99% of Canadian hockey players...

Chris Phillips couldn't give a rats a*ss what you think of him, I can assure you of that.

Your statement that you are dead AGAINST 99% of Canadian hockey players is prejudiced and irrelevant.

What is the purpose of letting everyone know that you dislike 99% of Canadian hockey players when the thread is about about Tiger's conduct?

[broken27]

Chris Phillips couldn't give a rats a*ss what you think of him, I can assure you of that.

Your statement that you are dead AGAINST 99% of Canadian hockey players is prejudiced and irrelevant.

What is the purpose of letting everyone know that you dislike 99% of Canadian hockey players when the thread is about about Tiger's conduct?

Actually, it was more of an inside joke with Andru and others who know me...

Sorry I offended you, Chris Phillips (who is one of my favourite Sens), and all other Canadian hockey players. I was retorting to a comment that seemed particularly ironic considering most people know I fan on the Czech hockey side....

Here's my official stance on at least one Canadian hockey player...
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/ott8.html

At any rate, seems you're pissed, so please try to keep it all in perspective....

Cheers,
Dan

[Andru]

Actually, it was more of an inside joke with Andru and others who know me...

Sorry I offended you, Chris Phillips (who is one of my favourite Sens), and all other Canadian hockey players. I was retorting to a comment that seemed particularly ironic considering most people know I fan on the Czech hockey side....

Here's my official stance on at least one Canadian hockey player...
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/ott8.html

At any rate, seems you're pissed, so please try to keep it all in perspective....

Cheers,
Dan

It's true Shivas, The Chris Philips comment was for Broken's benefit. Just as the 38 and counting comments are directed at me and all other Maple Leaf fans

[Shivas Irons]

Actually, it was more of an inside joke with Andru and others who know me...

Sorry I offended you, Chris Phillips (who is one of my favourite Sens), and all other Canadian hockey players. I was retorting to a comment that seemed particularly ironic considering most people know I fan on the Czech hockey side....

Here's my official stance on at least one Canadian hockey player...
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/ott8.html

At any rate, seems you're pissed, so please try to keep it all in perspective....

Cheers,
Dan

I obviously didn't catch the inside joke - my bad.
I have read many of both your and Andru's posts and they are usually insightful & articulate. This one was not, which was what prompted my terse response.
Having said that, no offense taken - no harm no foul.
Thanks for the clarification, and please continue trashing the Leafs at your discretion.

[Sakuraba]

Getting back to the etiquette breach rule, wasn't there a similar incident in the Alexander of Tunis a few years ago (which was much discussed in this forum) where the offending player WAS disqualified? I know the Alexander of Tunis is not the U.S. Open, but both events were serious golf tournaments, weren't they?

I think some of the same posters may be surprised at how they reacted to one situation when compared to the other. I'll try and dig it up from the archives...

[el tigre]

Getting back to the etiquette breach rule, wasn't there a similar incident in the Alexander of Tunis a few years ago (which was much discussed in this forum) where the offending player WAS disqualified? I know the Alexander of Tunis is not the U.S. Open, but both events were serious golf tournaments, weren't they?

Yes, there was a similar incident and the offending player was disqualified. I believe that action was very consistent with how that particular "committee" treats players who purposely damage the golf course. It is not always easy for the tournament to get a club to allow them to use their course, so they come down hard on players who do this.

For whatever reason, the PGA does not. Whether they should dole out harsher penalties or not is a matter of opinion. However, if nobody ever gets tossed for doing it on the PGA, then you can hardly support the argument that TW wasn't tossed because he gets "special" treatment.

[Sakuraba]

What I found interesting was that no one questionned the offending player's disqualification from the local tournament, in fact there were cries for harsher sanctions than mere dq.

I agree that the pga is more lenient on its players in this regard. I think they should be stricter.

The incident at the Hunt brings the issue a little closer to home. If I was a member at the hunt, I'd be angry with any player that damaged my green, let alone a member at possibly one of the most famous and historic courses in North America: Pinehurst #2. I'd want to see that player dq'd and fined, and I don't care who the offender is.

[mberube]

Was his behavior acceptable? Certainly not. Anyone who thinks this was an "accident" or his lame repair work and "non-apology" made everythink OK needs a new prescription for their rose-coloured glasses. Should he be fined? Absolutely - if there is such a program in place for this (I know the PGA has one, but I'm not so sure about the USGA). But kicked out of the tournament - I don't think so. That would be special treatment - he would be singled out for punishment in a situation where other players have not been, simply because of his media profile.

I also agree but fining a player is completely unsuccessful. Money is no object at least for Tiger and all the top players. You must hit them where it counts. Stroke penalty.

Let say Tiger was panelized one stroke for that incident. Then on Sunday, he birdies and pars a couple of holes that he should have at the end to finally play a 67 instead of a 69. That would put him at +1 with the stroke penalty preventing him to participate in a playoff. Now that hurts.

I know this is all speculation but stroke penalties can cost them money, qualification for other tournaments……

This type of incident happens more often then not and they should be dealt with in way that they will think twice before they smash their club no mater where they are on the course.

At the Tunis last year, J Shealds was penalized 2 strokes for a similar incident. He was eventually DQed at the end.

Mike

[Andru]

I obviously didn't catch the inside joke - my bad.
I have read many of both your and Andru's posts and they are usually insightful & articulate. This one was not, which was what prompted my terse response.
Having said that, no offense taken - no harm no foul.
Thanks for the clarification, and please continue trashing the Leafs at your discretion.

You can keep trashing the leafs on these boards and the leafs will keep trashing the sens on the ice. Sounds fair to me

[Andru]

Hold on a second folks you're making it sound like tiger pulled out a shovel and dug a hole in the green.

For the record I'm not saying it was right or justified. I'm just wondering if the actions at the Tunis were equal to Tiger's brain cramp. Are we comparing apples here.

The kid from the the Tunis last year was consistently bad and that's what prompted the "commitee" to give him the boot, rather than an isolated incident.

Can anyone clarify?

[mberube]

Hold on a second folks you're making it sound like tiger pulled out a shovel and dug a hole in the green.

For the record I'm not saying it was right or justified. I'm just wondering if the actions at the Tunis were equal to Tiger's brain cramp. Are we comparing apples here.

The kid from the the Tunis last year was consistently bad and that's what prompted the "commitee" to give him the boot, rather than an isolated incident.

Can anyone clarify?

JS swung his putter and took a divot out of the green at the Tunis last year. TW incident was less severe but non the less inappropriate. Although I did not see Tigers incident I have seen him hit his clubs in the ground. My point is that the Tour does not act appropriately to prevent this type of incident. Like I said, money is no object for most players.

[Golfpeasant]

I cant clarify, and I'm not suggesting Tiger be DQ'ed...but what was with that kind of behaviour on day TWO ! NOT DAY 4! DAY 2!

No matter how much you want to look through your Tiger-goggles Andru, it was shameful...shameful for ANYONE, and ESPECIALLY shameful for the world's number 1.

[Kilroy]

As I said; If the common man does it... Show him the gate.