How honest are you?

[Chris]

Just curious as to how many golfers out there actually record their "true" scores.

Do you ever roll your ball up on higher grass to improve your lie?

Give yourself a "gimmie" for a two foot putt?

Actually drop your ball a club length when taking a penalty drop?

Feel free to be honest, as I'm curious as to how many of us bend the rules just a wee bit / quite a bit, in order to give ourselves a better score.

It would be great to actually hear some funny stories or confessions!

[statsfreak]

I guess you should have the honour of going first then.

[Chris]

I try to be as honest as I can.. (as I'm sure most golfer's are).. that meaning I don't use my foot wedge and I count all my shots and penalties.


I have rolled my ball with my club for a better lie. As well, I have had on occassion used more than a club length whenever I had to drop the ball. :o
Ok ok I confessed.... I admit I'm not perfect.

But I know I'm not the only one, as I see alot of people out there propping their ball up for a better lie, taking muligans, blocking putt #3 that would have missed the hole.

[Kilroy]

Is it dishonest to not return to the tee on a Saturday morning, when you had every reason to believe there was no need to hit a provisional?

I for one feel we need recreational rules, but try to play as close as I can to the official rules. I too will bump the ball (in the fairway) and feel no remorse.

[Pimento]

Never cheat on the score card. That's just lame.

As for the stead-fast rules of golf? Well... let's just say we're a little liberal.

Me and my buds play one mulligan per nine holes. It can only be used off the tee with no carry-overs.

We've nudged a ball out of a divet a couple of times. We've dropped a ball that extra 10"-12" away from a hazard to get a fairway lie... etc.

I mean, we play golf to have fun. And cheating is fun... isn't it?

[el tigre]

I agree totally with Dan that we need a few "recreational" rules, and the first rule I would change is the "lost ball" rule.

Players on the PGA tour have hundreds of people lining the fairways watching every shot they make, so no matter how badly they duff one there is somebody who saw where it landed. They never have a "lost ball". Recreational players are guessing where the ball is from 200 yards away - hell, if I'm hitting into the sun I could hit it dead in the middle of the fairway and not see where it went. Going back to the tee box to hit another ball is simply a recipe for a six-hour round.

For recreational play, why not treat the woods and deep grass lining the fairways like a water hazard? Play it out of the hazard if you can, or take a penalty stroke and a drop if you can't. It would certainly speed up the pace of play.

[Kilroy]

Even Arnie thinks there should be recreational rules

Here are some changes I would see as potentialy popular:

Clubs for amatures with trampolines permitted on the face. (spring like effect such as the ERC)

The unplayable lie could be modified to give relief at the closest point of relief, plus a club (like a cart path)

Lost ball or OB to be played as a lateral hazzard

More liberal interperatation of abnormal ground conditions, to include divots and dead spots

Until the soft spike, I would have advocated the tapping down of spike marks as well.

Personally I do not think the mulligan has any place in even a very casual round.

By the way, my opinion is my own, and not an "official" OG opinion. There I said it (out loud) and Gary will now crucify me.

Anyone else care to add to it?

[blur13]

Most of my rounds of golf are with people who generally hit 110 or above, so the rules are a little flexible. We use the 2 mulligans off the tee for 18 holes. As well lost balls are just placed around where we think they went with a one stroke penalty. It speeds up the game, and makes it a little more enjoyable. Mind you when playing in the OGT, I abide by the full rules. I am mostly out there to have fun, and looking back at the second hole and remembering that I took a mulligan, really doesn't bother me. Just my opinion.

[4jag]

We play:

- roll it in your fairway only
-gimmes on tap-ins (usually money on the line so are not very generous on these).
- no mulligans unless someone coughs or farts during your swing
- if you choose not to play a provisional and you loose your ball you drop near point of loss and are lying 3 not 2. In effect 2 stroke penalty to make up for the stroke and distance.
- generous interpretations for G.U.R.

[jimrobin]

Although I have no use for the mulligan either, one rule I usually bring in for recreational rounds is:

On the very 1st tee ONLY.
If the golfer was able to go to the range "No Mulligan allowed".
If the golfer wasn't able to go to the range "One Mulligan on 1st tee ONLY, if they choose."

I just feel its unfair when a guy hits one OB on the 1st tee, and is now hitting 3, and its his first swing of the day.

Other than that I try to play by the rules the best I can (much like 4jag above). I admit, I certainly don't know all the rulings. Probably my most common expression on the course is "Do whatever you think is fair". The more money (beers) that are involved, the more I'm likely to give my opinion, or ask for advice from playing partners on rulings.

[Kilroy]

Gimmies are perfectly within the rules of golf in match play.
I think most people are a bit too generous with the gimmies, in an attempt to be friendly. That is not really what they are supposed to be all about.
Strategically, gimmies are for when a putt is unimportant to the match. You should make your opponent putt it when it counts. That makes it harder since he has had less practice throughout the round.

[Colby]

With the guys I play with regularly, a gimmie is a usually around the one foot mark, and no gimmies ever when par or less is involved, no matter what the distance (You tap that in for par!) However if the guy has had a particularly bad hole, putting to save that triple, the gimmie might streatch to a foot and a half.

[NoBack]

We dont use mulligans (although years ago we did use them off the first tee only AND I will always allow Dad to use as many as he needs to stay happy out there)

Gimmies are generally around putter grip length. And while playing for $$ or beer, must be from opponent only and never for par or better. Agree with Colby here, the higher the number one scores, the longer the gimmie.

Roll in your fairways??? Always - we dont play manicured courses like Augusta and Bay Hill. Make it fun to play, no need to penalize yourself for hitting the fairway!!! (ex. in a divot that was not repaired, or bald spot not marked G.U.R.)

Although we dont use the hitting 4-from-ball-not-found-but-deemed-OB, you talk about 4jag, I do like that interpretation very much and it would help speed up play not to have to go back to the tee and would seem to be a more accurate score than if you drop a ball and play as hasard only, and hitting 3.

Other things that should be different? Sand traps, hate the idea of having to play a sand shot from a shoe print or unraked trap. If the trap was raked properly, no need to change/bend the rules.

[em69]

Now how often are sand traps raked properly? Not very often....we're lucky when someone even rakes it. Some people don't like walking around the bunker to get the rake.:mad:

[stitchman]

It all depends on who I'm playing with. Because my regular playing buddies and I are not part of the PGA (for obvious reasons ) we do allow certain "bending" of rules, as well as adding in a few of our own.

I mean, who here hasn't used that secret club which everyone seems to carry? You know, the "foot wedge?". Now, if it's used contiuously, then something is said. But I would agree with the 1 mulligan per nine, and gimmies within a foot if over par. When you start to take the game too seriously and it doesn't feel like fun anymore, it's time to look for a new sport I think.

[powerlefty]

I think there should be recreational rules - especially on the OB and lost ball rules since we don't have 5,000 people in the gallery to see where the ball went. When we play we try to adhere to the rules but there are some exceptions since we don't play Eagle Creek or Stonebridge every day - and we NEVER make exceptions if there is $$ or beer on the line...

- roll the ball over (but not set it up) in the fairway if in a divot or a dead area - but never, ever roll it over anywhere off the fairway

- lost ball or OB, drop at point of entry (i.e. like a lateral hazard) and add TWO strokes. This is actually more severe than some resort course I have played in Hawaii and Florida where if your ball is hit into an unmown area (i.e. beyond the first cut of rough) it is deemed a lateral hazard even though it is unmarked and the one stroke penalty applies.

- gimmes inside the leather (long putters with high grips excluded!)

- Ground Under Repair - if not marked and it looks bad and if members in the foursome agree, it's GUR

- advice -e.g. answering "what club did you hit there?"

- occasional "floating mulligans" used anywhere once per round but only after an atrocious shot

[chad]

I think that it is best to play the ball as it lies as well as play by the rules. What happens when you play a match or skins where you can't move the ball or take 2 footers as a gimmie anymore??

[NoBack]

I think it just makes it faster to play. I dont want to be on the course longer than 4 1/2 hours at ANY given time. I would rather be sitting down, having a cold beer, bragging about the shots we made and didnt make.

I dont beleive that rolling your ball out of a pebble filled divot hole or from an area of sand in the middle of the fairway is bending the rules so much as it only will a) save me from replacing my clubs (which the pros dont pay btw) b) save time by hitting it better and with less shots and c) keep us happy

As for gimmies.........Dan said it best...........stickit

Mulligans??? We dont use them, except under REALLY exceptional circumstances, like a sneeze or cough in downswing. Not even for a cow's MOOOOOOO in someone's downswing at Manderley's 14th tee about 20 yrs ago.

During competitive rounds there is a difference BUT, I have played in many ovga events where they do stipulate what can and cant be done at that event. GUR is not always marked as such on local courses, but would be in tournament or events.

The one guy we havent heard from yet is Gary.........

[chad]

Hey, All I was saying is that I think that it is better to the ball from where it lies as apposed to the prefered lie from when you roll the ball over 2 inches. If you do this on a regular basis and get used to doing so, what do you do when you can't move the ball and it really counts???

I wasn't question the fact that anybody bends the rules at all!! I guess it just depends on how serious the game is.

[NoBack]

You got that right on the money/beer..."how serious the game is".
For most golfers, I beleive not as as serious as for some of us. I have played many tournaments and events playing the ball down and will accept my scores either way.

So in my opinion, if all participants play by the same bent/local rules, then it is acceptable to me. Remember, the key is we do not have what the pros have and never will, but we do want to enjoy our games too.

BTW.....what do you mean by "over 2 inches"? Does this mean YOU roll it but less than 2 inches?

[Kilroy]

Interesting. It seems that virtually everyone (in casual play) bends at least a rule or two, to varying degrees, depending on skill level.

The question of "how honest are you" must have more to do with weather or not you will type it into an open forum.

[chad]

"rolling the ball over" means that you take the ball with your club and move it around until you think that you have a good lie.

[Colby]

I think the point is to get your ball off of the dirt and onto a piece of grass, not so you are in the perfect lie. Just get your ball to the nearest green oasis and take your shot, no teeing up.

I was playing the Meadows S#3 the other day and was in the middle of the fairway with very little grass in site, a combination of dry ground and the vehicles working on the turf to either side of the fairway, so we moved the ball a bit further than normal, ruling it GUR.

If I was playing Eagle Creek all the time where they don't have two tournaments a day rolling through, I might be less forgiving about moving the ball in the fairway, however, playing courses where I have seen powered cart tracks across the green, I am a bit more lenient. There is enough stress in real life that I don't need to be stressed on the course also.

It was at the first OGT event at Metcalfe that Steve said to stickhandle out of a crappy lie on the fairway, but you play where you lie in the rough. That was the first time I had heard or even thought of doing that and I thought it was a great idea. I've played with guys who are always "adjusting" their lie in the rough and it really pissed me off. Now when I play with them, I mention the stickhandling rule from the fairway only, and usually add the caveat "with another's agreement that it is a bad lie in the fairway". This seems to be working much better, at least from my point of view

[NoBack]

While playing with Dan last year or year before that at Eagle Creek just after the Eagle Creek Classic, we were noticing how they have the areas deemed GUR circled in paint. Our thoughts were the same......the areas that were circled were better than a lot of fairways we hit from!:crying

Just a thought!!!

[4jag]

Steve, you just gave me an idea. I'm going to start carrying a can of spray paint in my bag for putting a circle around my ball when I've got a questionable lie.

GUR-in-a-can!

[Kilroy]

That's true. They are very nice to the players on the Canadian Tour. Much nicer than I would have expected. They had any imperfect areas circled, including areas in the rough.

The courses we play will only mark areas under construction or in extreme distress GUR. Even the Creek does not mark the hard pan areas GUR on a day to day basis. How is that fair to the casual golfer to offer the pros more relief than we get? I say, be your own judge, and I always think back to those conditions when deciding to give someone relief.

[Gary Hill]

4jag-

You dont need to carry around a can on spray paint.

If you have a questionable lie, mark the spot with a tee or measure the distance from a permanent object.

Invoke Rule 3-3 Doubt as to Procedure.

Play the ball from the questionable lie and play a second ball dropped outside the questionable lie.

At the end of the round, ask the pro (person in charge of the course) for a rulling.

He will decide whether the area "should have been" GUR.

Being your own judge is NOT legal. Getting a ruling IS legal.

Cheating because you are of the opinion that the course is not properly marked is still cheating.

If no one asks for a ruling, or complains that GUR is not properly marked , the golf course will continue to be lackadaisical in the proper marking of the course.

[NoBack]

So you want a guy who shoots 135 to play a second ball, so he can say he plays by the rules???

That might be the correct ruling but just dont do it in front of me at 7am.

I think we are just saying that to enjoy the game a little more and to make it a bit faster than a 5 hr round, there should or could be some rules that could and should be modified for the average player, NOT the ones playing in competitive play like OVGA and tournaments like that.

[Gary Hill]

I want EVERYBODY to play by the Rules.

I am not allowed to play by the Rules in front of you?? Explain.

I have been a marshal for many years and I can guarantee that playing a couple extra strokes on a hole when proceedure is in doubt is NOT the cause of 5 hour rounds.

Stopping mulligans is faster.
Hitting provisional balls is faster.
NOT propping the ball up for every shot is faster.
NOT tapping down spike marks is faster.
Not walking across the fairway to get "better" relief is faster.

Give me an example where NOT playing by Rules would be faster.

As to more enjoyable: Cheating and marking a lower score is NOT enjoyable to me.

[NoBack]

We are not on the same page then. I am talking about the guy who goes out and shoots 120+ without playing by the correct rules, but still has great round with his buddies.

Would it be faster for that guy to be hitting 30 provisional balls during a round? Would it be faster for him to walk back to the tee if he didnt think it was OB on the occasion he thought it was in?Would it also be faster if he had to putt another 6-10 times because of those spike marks? How many times has your ball been marked in the heavy rough at the average course in Ottawa so you can find it 15 minutes after you hit it? And if he played by the rules, would have to go back and re-hit it.

I'm not saying dont play by the rules. I am just agreeing that there should be some changes for the average golfer that does not have the same luxuries the pros have at their courses.