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Thread: Where to drop the ball
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06-20-2005 11:20 AM #1
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Where to drop the ball
Hey all, I have another rules question. The questions regards hitting a ball out of play from the fairway.
Scenario: It's a par 4 and I'm hitting my second shot from the fairway. The ball slices off to the right into a bunch of tall trees and bounces around in the woods. The first thing I do is drop a provisional ball from where I hit my last shot and advance the ball down the fairway. So I now walk ahead to see if I can find and play the first ball I hit. I go into the woods and find the first ball, but it's an unplayable lie. I noticed that the ball is about 60 yards closer to the hole (still in the woods) from the point it entered into the woods.
So here is the question: Where do I drop and play that ball? Do I drop it where it entered the woods, or can I walk straight out of the woods where I found it (60 yards ahead of where it went in), take a one stroke penalty and play it from there?
Thanks!
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06-20-2005 11:42 AM #2
Quoting directly from Rule 28.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.Last edited by jvincent; 06-20-2005 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Typo.
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06-20-2005 11:53 AM #3
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When you say 'out of play' do you mean Out of Bounds?
In which case, your provisional is now your 'ball in play' and your 1st is dead
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06-20-2005 12:21 PM #4
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No, ball is not OB, just unplayable in the woods. So, from what I understand my only choice is to drop a ball from where my last one was played, or two club lengths from where I found it in the woods. So if there was an opening through some trees within two club lengths of where I found my uplayable ball, I could take a drop in those woods?
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06-20-2005 12:22 PM #5
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06-20-2005 01:09 PM #6
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Thanks, OK then, one more question... ...and then I'll be a pro at knowing what to do when I shank it into the woods! So I decide to rehit from where I played the last ball because I assume the first original ball is long gone. Do I "drop" a ball nearest to where I played my last shot, or can I "place" it there. The rule above simply says "play a ball"....??
Thanks again!
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06-20-2005 01:45 PM #7Originally Posted by oneputt[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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06-20-2005 02:05 PM #8
20-5. Making Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Made
When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:
(a) On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and it may be teed.
(b) Through the Green and in a Hazard: The ball to be played must be dropped.
(c) On the Putting Green: The ball to be played must be placed.
Penalty for Breach of Rule 20-5:
Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
Not placed. Dropped.[color=blue]s[/color][color=red]p[/color][color=blue]i[/color][color=red]d[/color][color=blue]e[/color][color=red]y[/color]
[color=seagreen]"Got more dirt than ball. Here we go again."
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14 Commander, Amateur-Golfer, preparing to take another swing during his famous moon walk in 1971.
[/color]
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06-20-2005 02:05 PM #9
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Originally Posted by el tigre
Rule 20-5 b
Throught the green - The ball to be played must be dropped.
A good rule of thumb - place on the green, drop elsewhere - on the teeing ground, you may tee up
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06-20-2005 02:07 PM #10
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Right on, thanks guys. Excellent forum, good advice.
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06-21-2005 06:05 AM #11Originally Posted by DCH
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06-21-2005 08:38 AM #12Originally Posted by Gary Hill
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06-21-2005 01:20 PM #13
Seems as though you may drop your ball on the green if you declare it unplayable and select option b or c.
Rule 28
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.[color=blue]s[/color][color=red]p[/color][color=blue]i[/color][color=red]d[/color][color=blue]e[/color][color=red]y[/color]
[color=seagreen]"Got more dirt than ball. Here we go again."
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14 Commander, Amateur-Golfer, preparing to take another swing during his famous moon walk in 1971.
[/color]
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06-21-2005 01:35 PM #14
20-6
A ball incorrectly substituted, dropped or placed in a wrong place or otherwise not in accordance with the Rules but not played may be lifted, without penalty, and the player must then proceed correctly.
15-2. Substituted Ball
If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted to do so under the Rules, that substituted ball is not a wrong ball; it becomes the ball in play. If the mistake is not corrected as provided in Rule 20-6 and the player makes a stroke at a wrongly substituted ball, he incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and in stroke play, must play out the hole with the substituted ball.
...so, while you may not do it without penalty, if you substitute a ball and drop it on the green and play it, it becomes the ball in play. I suppose this is not technically one of the exceptions, but it is dropping the ball on the green and holing out with the ball, so according to the rules, it is possible.[color=blue]s[/color][color=red]p[/color][color=blue]i[/color][color=red]d[/color][color=blue]e[/color][color=red]y[/color]
[color=seagreen]"Got more dirt than ball. Here we go again."
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14 Commander, Amateur-Golfer, preparing to take another swing during his famous moon walk in 1971.
[/color]
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06-22-2005 08:30 AM #15
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Stupid question:
Why is it that you can hit a provisional and only use it if your original ball is not found or OB?
It would seem to make sense to use your provisional if your original was unplayable since one of the options is to go back to last spot and rehit. If that is the option you choose, why not allow the provisional to be used? I don't get it.
Aside from saving time, this gives the EXACT same result and penalty. And the argument that if you go back to the spot you can shank it again doesn't really make sense, cause you could just as easily have shanked your provisional.
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06-22-2005 08:42 AM #16Originally Posted by g8r[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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06-22-2005 08:44 AM #17Originally Posted by g8rI've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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06-22-2005 09:56 AM #18Originally Posted by Steve Karam
Last edited by el tigre; 06-22-2005 at 10:42 PM.
[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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06-22-2005 10:47 AM #19Originally Posted by Steve Karam[color=blue]s[/color][color=red]p[/color][color=blue]i[/color][color=red]d[/color][color=blue]e[/color][color=red]y[/color]
[color=seagreen]"Got more dirt than ball. Here we go again."
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14 Commander, Amateur-Golfer, preparing to take another swing during his famous moon walk in 1971.
[/color]
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06-22-2005 11:41 AM #20
I agree but all local rules do as well.
ps..... I havent seen anyone use this one yet in any of our eventsI've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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06-22-2005 12:05 PM #21Originally Posted by Steve Karam
Originally Posted by Steve Karam[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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06-22-2005 12:55 PM #22Originally Posted by el tigre
If they find the original and subsequently declare it unplayable and then hit the provisional, they have violated the rule.
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06-22-2005 01:28 PM #23
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But that is not any different from not looking for your ball and going straight to the provisional? Is there a difference between not finding your original ball or finding it in an unplayable situation? I don't think there is.
At that point it can come down to dumb luck...basically you MAY be further penalized for hitting your ball not as far into the woods as another person.
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06-22-2005 01:40 PM #24Originally Posted by g8r
You can hit a provisional if you think your ball is lost or OB. If you find it, then you cannot use the provisional as such.
If after finding it, you decide it is unplayable, you have to hit another off the tee.
This is what the rules say. It is, in practice, not what most people do for casual play.
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06-22-2005 01:51 PM #25"Richard"Guest
what is the answer garry?
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06-22-2005 02:45 PM #26
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I dont think there is any question as to what the answer is...that was long ago explained and accepted...its a question of WHY the rules are written that way...normally rules are put in place to prevent someone from doing something to gain an advantage...and this rule doesn't seem to do that (at least not in my mind)...I'm going to assume this is just one of those "thats the way it is" rules and leave it at that.
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06-22-2005 03:39 PM #27Originally Posted by g8r
I hit a provisional and then find my original ball. I now have 4 choices I can make for my next stroke:
1) play the original ball as it lies
2) declare original ball unplayable, rehit from the last spot with a penalty stroke
3) declare original ball unplayable, drop within 2 club-lengths with a penalty stroke
4) declare original ball unplayable, drop on a line extending from the hole to the ball with a penalty stroke.
Wouldn't it be a huge advantage to me if I could try all 4 options first and then pick the result that turned out the best? Of course it would! Well, playing my provisional doesn't go quite that far, but at least I get to see the result of Option #2 first before I make my decision.[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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06-22-2005 03:49 PM #28Originally Posted by el tigre
Ok so we agree i can hit a provisional . Right?
good, now we walk up to my first ball and look for it. Find it behind a tree with no backswing. Got it so far? good. I cant swing at it and call it unplayable because there is no where else but trees to take a drop within 2 clubs. So i pick it up, go pick up the proivisional and walk back to the tee. right so far??? by the rules??? I think so far so good.
OUR local rule is only to be used to save time on hitting a third ball from the tee. Plain and simple - nothing more nothing less.I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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06-22-2005 03:51 PM #29Originally Posted by g8rI've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
www.nationalcapitalgolftour.com
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06-22-2005 04:12 PM #30Originally Posted by Steve Karam
In golf, you are not supposed to be allowed to choose between a shot you have already taken (i.e., the provisional) and one you haven't attempted yet (i.e., playing it as it lies, taking a drop, etc). It's a pretty fundamental principle of the game.[COLOR=green][B]Golf is a game invented by the same people who think music comes out of bagpipes.[/B][/COLOR]
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